Ammo for the home

[leahcim 679]

I mentioned HPs in a conversation today and the person I was talking with gives me an "I wouldn't do that if I were you" look. So I ask why and he gives me the rationale that it could be prejudicial in an HD situation, and if you use HPs, the prosecutor is going to point to that and say there is no valid reason for HP but to inflict maximum damage. Once that is established, well then the only reason you would by HP is you are just waiting for an intruder so you can use them. There is no argument of "I just use the pistol for sport shooting"--or is there--with HP bullets.

 

I do not buy this line of reasoning, but not sure how I would respond to the question of why I own HP?

Do people on the forum own or not own HP and why?

If so, do you use them for other than HD purposes?

What do yoiu think of the argument?

 

Also I found Hornady Zombie-Max HPs--I was thinking to buy those for HD. I can claim that I keep those around for the occasional zombie attack, and in the heat of the moment I loaded the wrong ammo during a home invasion. My friend did not think that was a good argument, but I think it is as rational as the specious supposition that I only have HP because I am itchin to shoot someone.

http://www.hornady.c...ie-Max-Handgun/

[this_is_nascar 162]

If/when a conversation with law enforcement about your usage of HP arises, you simply tell them they are used to lessen the risk of over-penetration in a SD/HD situation. You're concerned with saving lives, not taking them

[NJDrew1 0]

I use Hornady Critical Defense as the HD ammo. Since they're not considered hollow point, the State Police have them on their approved list. The ballistic tests prove them to be worthwhile.

[lunker 274]

That is B.S. Ask your friend why police carry them at work. They flatten out and stay in the bad guy's body, instead of passing through and heading for the baby carriage behind him. The extra damage is a fringe benefit.

[when_shtf 4]

And when a jury hears that you used "Zombie Ammo" they'll think you're a complete lunatic.

[Malsua 1,422]

I own and load CorBon DPX for my nightstand gun. These are Hollow Point +P.

 

As for the legal arguments, it's a pretty weak one, and here's why. If the prosecutor has deemed that deadly force was permissible and he's arguing the "level" of lethality, he's lost the case. Either it is legal to use deadly force or not. There is not minimum or maximum level of dead, there is just dead.

[Duppie 73]

I keep Hornady Critical Defense rounds in the mags and speed loader that remain in the house.Not so much to insure a fatal injury to an intruder,but to lessen the chance of bullet over penetration and possible injury to my immediate neighbors.

[robot_hell 72]

1. They are the same type of round issued to local police departments.

2. HPs are more accurate than FMJ, which is why they are used for match ammo. They have a sporting use.

3. They prevent overpenetration.

 

Win/win/win in my book...

[CAPTBIL3 10]

I use Hornady Critical Defense in my off-duty, great stuff.

[MrSurfboard 1]

I own and load CorBon DPX for my nightstand gun. These are Hollow Point +P.

 

As for the legal arguments, it's a pretty weak one, and here's why. If the prosecutor has deemed that deadly force was permissible and he's arguing the "level" of lethality, he's lost the case. Either it is legal to use deadly force or not. There is not minimum or maximum level of dead, there is just dead.

 

Agreed, if deadly force was justified, then it's justified. Doesn't matter what ammo you used as long as it was legal to own, which HPs are.

[leahcim 679]

And when a jury hears that you used "Zombie Ammo" they'll think you're a complete lunatic.

Well, I think the "HD ammo shows that you were just waiting to kill an intruder" is just as idiotic.

[Dan 177]

I used to think that there were legal implications in the choice of ammo for HD, I have since changed my mind as this argument can go any direction. Just use the ammo that you feel is the most effective choice for your gun and conditions.

 

I've said this before, but here are some examples on how the prosecutor could twist your choice of ammo that you used in a SD situation:

 

Hollow points or HD specific ammo - "trigger happy gun nut looking to try out exploding bullets on humans"

Target practice ammo - "so you view humans as your targets"

Hunting ammo - "so you want to hunt humans"

FMJ and Milsurp - "so you are a military nut using ammo that the military uses to kill in wars"

cowboy loads - "you think you are a cowboy in the wild west... looking for a gunfight"

[mcbethr 42]

I have Hornady Critical Defense in my CX4. I don't "trust" HP ammo when it comes to feeding, and I like the fact that it isn't considered a hollow point.

 

I don't think you will ever have anything to worry about, G-d forbid you are involved in a shooting, as long as you were in the right. Even in NJ, no prosecutor in his right mind would charge somebody if you were within the law.

 

I think the type of gun and ammunition comes into play if you are involved in a "good" shoot that goes bad. You shoot a bad guy and he stumbles out of your house and dies on the driveway. You fire a "warning" shot that goes through your house and wounds a neighbor. And so on... in a case like that, I could see how you would want a bullet called "Critical Defense" instead of "Zombie Max."

 

I remember once reading an article that revolvers, hunting rifles and shotguns with wood furniture were more sympathetic to juries during the sentencing phase of a trial. I will try to find that article.

[Adam 6]

Cor-bon powerball.

 

Solves the "HP" myths.

[Handyman 5,682]

If someone goes bump in the night in my place, the prosecutor will be much more interested in the 60 shots I take at him than the type of bullet I am using...

 

Heck, I'd even stab him and break a lamp over his head given the opportunity...

[MattH 0]

What are the thoughts on frangible ammo for HD situations? They are pretty effective and there isn't much chase of a pass through shot.

[bulpup 98]

The argument as your friend has stated is fully in the realm of a civil case. In a civil case you are going to be questioned on every little thing you do anyway so it would be best to focus on having the name of a good lawyer than to neuter yourself with FMJ ammo.

 

Think of it this way, I am sure that George Zimmerman had some sort of HD round is his pistol, but for every little BS thing that shows up in the news abot the incident no one has mentioned that he wanted to kill someone as proven by his ammo choice. I could be wrong and he may have had some American Eagle target rounds, but I doubt it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ray Ray 3,566]

If your that worried about what their gonna use against you in court, use buckshot. Not only is it NOT an HP, but it's the best round for HD. 12 gauge all the way.

[Barms 98]

Since i only have a 22LR gun.. it appears the most economical HV ammo for me to buy is Federal in the 525 box.. which only comes in HP i believe.. so my defense would be "its the cheapest ammo i could buy!".. :-)

[PK90 3,570]

If it ever gets to the point where you are a defendant that needs to take the stand in a criminal case against you, you are fu@ked.

[Qel Hoth 33]

Lethal force is lethal force is lethal force.

 

If you are justified in hitting the bad guy in the head with a tire iron, you are justified in stabbing him with a knife. If you can stab him, you can run him over with your car. If you can run him over with your car you can strangle him. If you can strangle him you can shoot him with a .22lr LRN. If you can shoot him with a .22 you can shoot him with a 10mm HP. If you can shoot him with a 10mm, you can shoot him with a .50BMG. It doesn't matter, either way all the situations above are lethal force and equal under the law.

[TheWombat 67]

Lethal force is lethal force is lethal force.

 

If you are justified in hitting the bad guy in the head with a tire iron, you are justified in stabbing him with a knife. If you can stab him, you can run him over with your car. If you can run him over with your car you can strangle him. If you can strangle him you can shoot him with a .22lr LRN. If you can shoot him with a .22 you can shoot him with a 10mm HP. If you can shoot him with a 10mm, you can shoot him with a .50BMG. It doesn't matter, either way all the situations above are lethal force and equal under the law.

 

However if you have a Jury deciding your fate, a lawyer will try to spin the fact that the perpetrator was shot 45 times when only 1-2 shots were required (in a situation where you took lethal force and shot 3 magazines etc).

 

You just have to look at the recent news headlines from CA and NY where the cops fired 'a large number' of rounds at the perpetrators and the public opinion that has resulted. Hence perhaps in the public's eye there are degrees of lethality??????

 

Tying this thread back to the Jury Duty thread that's running - the Jury is not necessarily going to be logical and able to analyze and understand the situation.....

 

Someone in my office commented on the Zimmerman/Martin case

Person: 'Why did they have to shoot him'

Me: 'They felt there life was threaten'

Person: 'Well then why couldn't they have just shot him once in the leg'

.....

 

However to get back to the original post... There are plenty of valid reasons for using HPs for home defense, any good lawyer should be able to cover this. The fact that the Police use them, the fact that they do not over-penetrate etc etc...

 

TheWombat

[MrSurfboard 1]

However if you have a Jury deciding your fate, a lawyer will try to spin the fact that the perpetrator was shot 45 times when only 1-2 shots were required (in a situation where you took lethal force and shot 3 magazines etc).

 

You just have to look at the recent news headlines from CA and NY where the cops fired 'a large number' of rounds at the perpetrators and the public opinion that has resulted. Hence perhaps in the public's eye there are degrees of lethality??????

 

Tying this thread back to the Jury Duty thread that's running - the Jury is not necessarily going to be logical and able to analyze and understand the situation.....

 

Someone in my office commented on the Zimmerman/Martin case

Person: 'Why did they have to shoot him'

Me: 'They felt there life was threaten'

Person: 'Well then why couldn't they have just shot him once in the leg'

.....

 

However to get back to the original post... There are plenty of valid reasons for using HPs for home defense, any good lawyer should be able to cover this. The fact that the Police use them, the fact that they do not over-penetrate etc etc...

 

TheWombat

 

If you are firing 45 shots at one person, you should probably practice more.

[leahcim 679]

Lethal force is lethal force is lethal force. If you are justified in hitting the bad guy in the head with a tire iron, you are justified in stabbing him with a knife. If you can stab him, you can run him over with your car. If you can run him over with your car you can strangle him. If you can strangle him you can shoot him with a .22lr LRN. If you can shoot him with a .22 you can shoot him with a 10mm HP. If you can shoot him with a 10mm, you can shoot him with a .50BMG. It doesn't matter, either way all the situations above are lethal force and equal under the law.

Of course you are justified. The possible problem is in a civil case. If the jury sees you defended yourself with a tire iron, well every one has a tire iron in their car and defense is not its primary purpose. With a weapon whose primary purpose is to kill, I think plaintiff's attorney is going to try to suggest that you thought this through and were out looking for a fight so you could defend yourself. You are still justified. Some states have laws where you cannot be sued in a civil case if you are acquitted--based on SD--in the criminal case. I do not think NJ is one of those states.

Just sayin, it might not help you with the jury--unless one of you are on the jury.

[Socom 19]

I just load my own home defense round, Speer Nickel Brass, Speer 165 grain HP .40sw, CCI primers.

[silverado427 10,682]

I switch out every two months between federal HST 124 +p and corbon 115 +p and federal classic 115gr hi shok . I don't chamber a round so I don't worry about bullet set back.

[BillC. 26]

#2 lead shot.

[hcasillasjr 1]

I keep HP's in my G19 at all times, except when I am leaving the home. I have even used them at the range. HP's are not illegal to own. If an intruder tries to enter my home, I will be putting 2 of those HP's center mass.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Hornady CD here and hope I never need to use it, but it's at the ready..

[iRescue 0]

I got the Hornady Zombie rounds because they were pretty cheap on Natchez a few weeks ago and they were out of stock on the Critical Defense rounds.

 

From all my research - thy appear to be the same as the CD rounds save the brass casing and bright green polymer cavity fill.

 

Anyone think they are a bad idea for HD?