Barms 98 Posted July 15, 2012 Yes, i try to do my own research before i hit up the forum.. but I kid you not, when you put "how do red dot sights work" into YouTube videos for Modern Warfare (the video game) come up. I know red dot, and "hologram" sights are not laser sights. My question is, does the bullet go wherever the red dot is (after you have it zeroed in) every time? I don't mean like is accuracy guaranteed (nothing is guaranteed). What i mean is, are red dots to make accuracy better, or are red dots for overcoming that you don't need to be aligned perfectly? With iron sights to hit the target everything needs to be on plane, your eyeballs on plane with front sight on plane with rear right, on plane with target. I think the red dot overcomes this because all you have to do is see the red dot on your target in the viewfinder your eye can be "out of plane" a bit, just as long as you can see the red dot on the target... no? and red dots don't magnify if i've read it correctly.. So red dots i think just make aim EASIER.. not better/accurate.. is that correct? I know the replies could be two pages long, but you guys are pretty good at summary info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted July 15, 2012 Reflex sights vary in design, and so vary in function There are two main types: red dot sights and holographic sights (not all reflex sights are holographic). Basic red dot sights such as the Aimpoint models simply project a light onto a reflective lens. The light then bounces into your eye, and you see it as a red dot. Scroll down to #5 on this page http://www.aimpoint.com/us/about-aimpoint/technology/ Holographic sights involve a bunch of mirrors which bounce the light onto a holographic window, which your eye sees (it's more complicated than that but it's good enough). See image (From wikipedia): Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HKHockey 5 Posted July 16, 2012 I was wondering about this too a while back. What you are referring to is parallax. Most red dot sights have a slightly concave lens that allows the user to view the target at a slightly off-center angle and still have the reticule on the correct point of aim. Apparently you can not completely adjust for it and at the edges of the lens the reticule will not be properly placed. You will have to google more about it though since my knowledge about optics is severely limited. Not aware of any red-dots that have magnification built in but I might be mistaken. Fortunately there are a ton of options on the market for x2/3/5 magnifiers that sit behind your choice of optic and can be mounted to swivel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm3isme 0 Posted July 16, 2012 I was wondering about this too a while back. What you are referring to is parallax. Most red dot sights have a slightly concave lens that allows the user to view the target at a slightly off-center angle and still have the reticule on the correct point of aim. Apparently you can not completely adjust for it and at the edges of the lens the reticule will not be properly placed. You will have to google more about it though since my knowledge about optics is severely limited. Not aware of any red-dots that have magnification built in but I might be mistaken. Fortunately there are a ton of options on the market for x2/3/5 magnifiers that sit behind your choice of optic and can be mounted to swivel. hey i know this is off topic, but what brand is you flip up rear sight??? thank you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HKHockey 5 Posted July 16, 2012 Sorry, I should have mentioned it was not my AR in the pic but it looks like a Troy to me. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Troy-Folding-Battle-Sight-REAR-p/troy%20rear%20sight%20-%20rear.htm Hope that helps! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted July 16, 2012 Not aware of any red-dots that have magnification built in but I might be mistaken. Fortunately there are a ton of options on the market for x2/3/5 magnifiers that sit behind your choice of optic and can be mounted to swivel. http://www.bushnell.com/products/scopes/riflescopes/reddot/730232P/?CFID=41685098&CFTOKEN=1a0585b45bdbb85e-A54C5E71-FFA8-6532-65D9C19CD9778B9A& This one has a built in 2x. I don't know if that's significant enough magnification. You definitely can magnify aimpoint or eotech style dots. I feel the main purpose of dots are to quickly acquire targets and connect with better follow up shots in close to medium range. If you are looking to have a tack driver at 200+ yards get a scope. Want to hit a torso sized target < 200 you should be good. I don't know exactly what ACOG's are classified as but they should be in the convo if you have some cheddar to spend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barms 98 Posted July 17, 2012 Checker50.. so indeed.. it is to "acquire" the target more quickly.. that's the term i should have used.. "acquire".. but regarding the hitting a TORSO size target at < 200.. couldnt that be done with just iron sights? If the goal is just to hit torso, is a red dot needed for that? I was guessing that the red dot was to be more particular on the target.. like a head shot at < 200 versus just hitting a torso.. so again, i'm back to original question sort of.. does the bullet go where the red dot is at 100 yards any differently than iron sights at 100 yards? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HKHockey 5 Posted July 17, 2012 If they are both zeroed in at 100 yards then there should be no difference. It is just quicker to look at a dot instead of aligning 3 moving objects. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anselmo 87 Posted July 17, 2012 Checker50.. so indeed.. it is to "acquire" the target more quickly.. that's the term i should have used.. "acquire".. but regarding the hitting a TORSO size target at < 200.. couldnt that be done with just iron sights? If the goal is just to hit torso, is a red dot needed for that? I was guessing that the red dot was to be more particular on the target.. like a head shot at < 200 versus just hitting a torso.. so again, i'm back to original question sort of.. does the bullet go where the red dot is at 100 yards any differently than iron sights at 100 yards? Red dots are faster to acquire a target than iron sights. Your eyes focus on the target with red dots. Your eyes focus on the front sight with iron sights. I can wear my eyeglasses to correct my near sightedness and shoot just fine at 100 yards with a red dot to shoot tin cans that would be blurry if I wasn't wearing my glasses. Red dots aren't more accurate than iron sights. It's faster target acquisition and eye focal length that is the selling point of red dots. I think they're great. My red dot cowitnesses with my iron sights. Which means I can look through the iron sights and see the red dot on the target. The bullet goes the same place. If my eyes are not quite lined up with the red dot, the bullet still goes about the same place which is close enough for a torso shot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted July 17, 2012 Checker50.. so indeed.. it is to "acquire" the target more quickly.. that's the term i should have used.. "acquire".. but regarding the hitting a TORSO size target at < 200.. couldnt that be done with just iron sights? If the goal is just to hit torso, is a red dot needed for that? I was guessing that the red dot was to be more particular on the target.. like a head shot at < 200 versus just hitting a torso.. so again, i'm back to original question sort of.. does the bullet go where the red dot is at 100 yards any differently than iron sights at 100 yards? IMO, no, they are not neccessary. Do they help? Yes. Quickly aquire, fire, then reaquire with fast follow ups. When shooting to put follow up shots on a critical area on a target. Not really to be trying to pul a headshot on someone. But like I said, if you want to put holes in holes, you'd be much better with a scope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted July 17, 2012 At 100yds my inner dot will cover all of an 8" target save for the outermost black ring. If I see the outer ring when I pull the trigger, I can group consistantly around 2.5" shots. Seeing that ring helps me to gauge my shot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Holeshot 3 Posted July 17, 2012 FWIW this is quoted from an interview with Chris Costa, "When we have a student show up with a carbine with iron sights it gets difficult to teach because they have to close one eye. The reason why I’m a bit against irons is because you shouldn’t be closing an eye during a gunfight. When you’re in a close gunfight you need to be 100% focused on the threat. That means that you’re not going to be able to shift your focus back to the rear sight, line up the front sight, and then line everything up on a target and fire. With the red dot something floats between you and the other person that requires no lining up other than putting the dot on the target’s chest, and then you can pull the trigger." Edit: expanded on exactly what HKHockey said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barms 98 Posted July 17, 2012 I am crystal clear now.. thank you all.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HKHockey 5 Posted July 18, 2012 Pretty sure we bombarded you with a ton of stuff you did not even ask for lol. Feel free to ask any question again though! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barms 98 Posted July 20, 2012 Destro.. that's SICK. 19 neck shots looking through the video camera.. so that sums it up perfectly.. its much easier to acquire the target position by looking at a red dot. yes you could look through a camera with iron sights but its a no brainer with the red dot. thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
destro23 0 Posted July 21, 2012 I dont have an AR yet... but watching these videos pretty much made up my mind that i def want some sort of optics when i do get one.... I'll probably just buy a complete AR maybe a Colt, RockRiver Arms or S&W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted July 21, 2012 Build what you want - it's not so hard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
destro23 0 Posted July 22, 2012 Build what you want - it's not so hard. I'm scared! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted July 22, 2012 I've done 2 lowers now - it's really quite simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaiser7 33 Posted July 22, 2012 FWIW this is quoted from an interview with Chris Costa, "When we have a student show up with a carbine with iron sights it gets difficult to teach because they have to close one eye. The reason why I’m a bit against irons is because you shouldn’t be closing an eye during a gunfight. When you’re in a close gunfight you need to be 100% focused on the threat. ...Is it weird I can aim on most iron sights without closing my eyes? Also, I wanted to ask some advice, since I'm about to buy some sort of sight for my AR. I'm leaning more towards getting a scope at the moment, but I don't want to break the bank, and also I was wondering what a person does if they have a scope on their rifle, but need to use in in closer quarters if something happens. Does anyone know how you get around this problem? Also, if anyone has any recomendations on brands, models, and such things, PM me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted July 22, 2012 I was wondering what a person does if they have a scope on their rifle, but need to use in in closer quarters if something happens. Does anyone know how you get around this problem? Use a different rifle/upper... or get angled optics (45 degree angled red dot/reflex sight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaiser7 33 Posted July 23, 2012 I wasn't sure if they had something like that pivot for scopes. Perhaps it's stupid to assume that. I was planning on putting folding irons on, so I figured if they have pivots like that for scopes, then I could switch it relatively quickly. Then again I don't know if such an action would damage a scope or what. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted July 23, 2012 I wasn't sure if they had something like that pivot for scopes. Perhaps it's stupid to assume that. I was planning on putting folding irons on, so I figured if they have pivots like that for scopes, then I could switch it relatively quickly. Then again I don't know if such an action would damage a scope or what. I dont know about damage but it would be impossible to keep it zeroed. I've seen some scopes with rails on top to use one of those micro dots. Also as krdshrk said you can get a 45° offset rail to mount a small dot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted July 23, 2012 I wasn't sure if they had something like that pivot for scopes. Perhaps it's stupid to assume that. I was planning on putting folding irons on, so I figured if they have pivots like that for scopes, then I could switch it relatively quickly. Then again I don't know if such an action would damage a scope or what. Would you REALLY want a quick detach for a scope? You'd have all sorts of zeroing problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaiser7 33 Posted July 24, 2012 Would you REALLY want a quick detach for a scope? You'd have all sorts of zeroing problems. That's what I wasn't sure about. Good call Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fullhouse 0 Posted July 24, 2012 Check it out http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/171278_Damn_it__look_at_this_LaRue_mount_repeatability_test_________.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted July 24, 2012 That's an ACOG scope - it's slightly magnified but not meant for total precision like a regular scope. Plus - you'll pay out the a$$ for that larue mount. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fullhouse 0 Posted July 24, 2012 That's an ACOG scope - it's slightly magnified but not meant for total precision like a regular scope. Plus - you'll pay out the a$$ for that larue mount. The test targets in that thread show some pretty precise shooting to me. The main point being that there are QD mounts that hold zero, maybe some better than others but the option is there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites