Looking to meet min requirement for NJ Transport to PA

[Jfoster99 80]

So when I Travel to PA I usually take 287 to 87 to 84 and enter PA near Milford.

 

Does anyone know of a range close to the high way I could swing by to meet the to or from requirement?

 

Do I need to actually shoot? Could I just take a photo holding holding up the front page of NY Times to show I was there during my visit to PA?

 

Would it be easier to meet the hunting requirement? Would scouting count has the hunting activity? Have my non -resident hunting permit and document my foray into the woods? Just need to locate land legal to hunt on along my intended route, pop on my orange hat/vest, take a photo, scout the nearest squirrel and make a note in my log book!! Right! (maybe?..)

 

If you don't think the above minimal activity would hold up in a court of law to meet the transport rule then where is the minimal line? An hour in the woods? Fireing x number of shots at the range?

 

I'm looking for the line that a reasonable person would consider the activity has been met to qualify for the transport exemption.

 

I'm specifically interested in meeting the NJ transport requirement ... Not FOPA..

 

[robot_hell 72]

Handgun or long gun? If you have an FID, there are no specific transport restrictions for long guns (as long as they are unloaded). If you don't have an FID, your long gun is restricted in a similar manner as handguns (to or from range/gunsmith). Since handgun hunting is not legal in NJ, hunting is not an exception to the transport law for handguns.

 

Is it illegal to be on the way to the range, but change your mind after you get over the PA border? I wouldn't expect it to be. I believe the law says you must be going to or from a range... not necessarily shoot there. But of course, it's open to interpretation.

 

Some would argue that even if you are not going to a range, you are covered under FOPA if the firearms are legal in both the origin state and destination state. I would argue that traveling to another state for non-specific purposes is not a legal exception to the handgun transportation law, and therefore makes it illegal in the origin state.

 

Remember that the transport law is a NJ law and the application of it ends at the border. What you do while in PA is irrelevant in a discussion of NJ laws. As long as you follow the transport laws while in NJ, you are good.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

A zillion questions and all it's gonna do is stir-up the pot.

 

IANAL, so IF you want LEGAL advise as to what would hold-up in Court--go pay for a Lawyer. By asking the question here you may get answers from people who don't even own firearms let alone know how to transport them.

 

And not-for-nuthin', why don't you just head northwest into PA instead of going into NY? Especially IF you're transporting hand guns, why go outta your way to make yourself trouble (your post doesn't indicate long guns or hand guns)......

[johnp 45]

There is a WMA public range about 20 miles up Grand Army of the Republic Rd. near Milford.(Near Lake Wallenpaupack [sp?]) That is where I usually shoot.

 

You need a PA hunting license, or a permit to shoot there.

 

It's nice up there, very casual 25, 50, & 100yd ranges.

[PK90 3,570]

[Jfoster99 80]

Handguns is the main reason for the question.

[Jfoster99 80]

A zillion questions and all it's gonna do is stir-up the pot.

 

IANAL, so IF you want LEGAL advise as to what would hold-up in Court--go pay for a Lawyer. By asking the question here you may get answers from people who don't even own firearms let alone know how to transport them.

 

And not-for-nuthin', why don't you just head northwest into PA instead of going into NY? Especially IF you're transporting hand guns, why go outta your way to make yourself trouble (your post doesn't indicate long guns or hand guns)......

 

I'm not looking for legal advice., just was a few reasonable people think would be sufficient to technically meet the requiremt for having partaked in the required activity.

 

I go the way I do because it is the quickest.. The NY leg is clearly FOPA protected. No grey area there so no concern for me.

 

[heaterbob 53]

make sure you use the new york times for target practice

[Smokin .50 1,907]

make sure you use the new york times for target practice

 

+100!

[woodentoe 14]

I can't even completely figure out what requirement you're trying to fulfill. *shrug*

[PK90 3,570]

:unknw:

[woodentoe 14]

:unknw:

 

LOL

[Smokin .50 1,907]

:unknw:

 

That about sums it up alright, lol!

[Duppie 73]

Huh?????

[Jfoster99 80]

Hum... I post the exact same question almost verbatim at PAFOA and got a spot on reply. No shrugs, no rolling just an awesome helpful answer..

 

 

This is a firearms forum correct?

" I'm specifically interested in meeting the NJ transport requirement ... Not FOPA.."

 

I'm ain't looking to transport a truck load of live stock

 

No need form any other responses... I got what I needed already... And for those who did try to help i do appreciate the effort.

 

You guys need to work on hospitality, especially with new comers. If you want this place to grow it takes effort. Otherwise you end up talking with that same 20 guys for years in the little all boys club.

 

 

 

[Adam 6]

"You guys need to work on hospitality, especially with new comers. If you want this place to grow it takes effort. Otherwise you end up talking with that same 20 guys for years in the little all boys club."

 

Exactly. But some here are perfectly fine with it..

[woodentoe 14]

The quizzical response is because they is no minimum requirement to transport from NJ to PA as long as you are adhering to proper etiquette en route. (unloaded, in a locked case or Locke in a trunk)

 

Please explain what the folks on the PA forum told yours it doesn't seem accurate. This is the first I've heard of it.

[robot_hell 72]

The quizzical response is because they is no minimum requirement to transport from NJ to PA as long as you are adhering to proper etiquette en route. (unloaded, in a locked case or Locke in a trunk)

 

This is not true. You can only transport a handgun in NJ if you are going to/from an approved location.

 

BigHayden said it best in this thread: http://njgunforums.c...gun-to-a-range/

 

Well, your Creator gave you the right to transport your handgun anywhere you damn well please. The 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects that right. NJ law, 2C:39-5 effectively removes that right (unless you have a permit to carry, which is impossible, pending the SAF/ANJRPC lawsuit), and 2C:39-6 says you have an exemption to 2C:39-5 if you're transporting your handgun to/from the range from/to your home, as long as you do not make any stops along the way.

 

In short, an "approved location" is a range, gunsmith, or place of purchase, and you can't make anything other than "reasonable" stops anywhere else. Hunting and out of state carry do not fall into those exemptions.

 

2C:39-6 subsection b:

 

(b) Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder; or

 

© In the case of a firearm, directly to or from any exhibition or display of firearms which is sponsored by any law enforcement agency, any rifle or pistol club, or any firearms collectors club, for the purpose of displaying the firearms to the public or to the members of the organization or club, provided, however, that not less than 30 days prior to the exhibition or display, notice of the exhibition or display shall be given to the Superintendent of the State Police by the sponsoring organization or club, and the sponsor has complied with such reasonable safety regulations as the superintendent may promulgate. Any firearms transported pursuant to this section shall be transported in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

[PK90 3,570]

WRONG.

 

FOPA rules apply.

[Jfoster99 80]

Woodento,

A lot of people do not think FOPA covers you NJ to PA with a handgun. So you have to be going hunting or to the range in PA..

 

Some people, stop at the range to fire a shot just to be legal when going to PA just to CCW.

 

Below is the post I found helpful ar PAFOA.

 

Re: Meeting minimum NJ transport exception

As to the question of transport NJ<-->Pa see:

 

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ly-report.html (FOPA transport protection in states of origin/destination - UNLIKELY [A Report])

 

As to the 'range' exception just remember that the burden of proof that you qualify for that exception is on you - the prosecution only has to prove your possession of a handgun while in NJ without an NJCCW.

 

Also bear in mind that the trier-of-law and the trier-of-fact, if you are prosecuted, is an NJ judge and jury of NJ peers, most likely neither being gun-friendly.

 

As Gunlawyer001 aptly said (and it applies to some of the purported range exceptions espoused here and in other threads):

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

Here's a good rule of thumb: If the only defense standing between you and a Misdemeanor 1 conviction is a story that you'd just have to deliver with a smirk, then you're screwed. Judges don't like "cute", not unless it's blond and nobody's watching.

In NJ illegal handgun possession is a 2nd class crime with 5-10 years.

 

 

Some thoughts from another of my posts:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tl_3237

As with any exception to a prohibition, the burden of proof falls on the person claiming the exception. Whether that burden is met will depend on with the cop, who can use officer's discretion, or the trier-of-fact (jury or judge in bench trial).

 

If I was a juror I would be looking for such things as:

1. range proximity;

2. range membership;

3. past history of range usage;

4. non-circuitous route to/from range;

5. possession of ancillary range equipment -

a. hearing/eye protection;

b. amount of ammo;

c. any targets possessed;

6. weather;

7. hours of operation vs. when stopped;

8. etc

 

I would take all that you offered in your defense and adjudge the veracity of your claim based on the 'reasonableness' of the circumstances. Though not foolproof, I think that most can see through a sham claim.

There are no bright lines for what you want but, using a reasonable person test, if all you have is those vacuous defenses then you going to be 'fried'.

 

---------

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by CartBone69

1st before is locked

No reason for locking. IMO, the newly imposed restrictions do not prevent the hypothesizing such as the OP's but only for those who adamantly insist that these types of scenarios are not without great uncertainty and potentially severe legal risk.

__________________

IANAL

 

[robot_hell 72]

WRONG.

 

FOPA rules apply.

 

Do they? At this point, I think it's a matter of opinion. Since FOPA requires legality in origin and destination, and you aren't legal transporting a handgun at your origin unless going to an approved location, you aren't legal under FOPA unless you're going to a "NJ exception" that just so happens to be out of state.

[Jfoster99 80]

PK90,

 

I agree FOPA should apply NJ to Pa for handgun transport but here is a well researched opposing view point.

 

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-open-carry-121/140698-fopa-transport-protection-states-origin-destination-unlikely-report.html

 

Worth the read weather you agree or not.

 

I alway and still do rely on FOPA traveling to PA but after reading the above it make you wonder.

[woodentoe 14]

Once you leave Nj you are not governed by Nj state law with regards to possession. Fopa says that the handgun is legal in you origin state(Nj/residence) and PA (another state). Provided it is transported in accordance with FOPA, Nj would be violating federal law enacted to guarantee legal transport across state lines.

[robot_hell 72]

Hum... I post the exact same question almost verbatim at PAFOA and got a spot on reply. No shrugs, no rolling just an awesome helpful answer..

 

 

This is a firearms forum correct?

" I'm specifically interested in meeting the NJ transport requirement ... Not FOPA.."

 

I'm ain't looking to transport a truck load of live stock

 

No need form any other responses... I got what I needed already... And for those who did try to help i do appreciate the effort.

 

You guys need to work on hospitality, especially with new comers. If you want this place to grow it takes effort. Otherwise you end up talking with that same 20 guys for years in the little all boys club.

 

Firearms forums are what they are... I think we Jerseyans are particularly paranoid because of the laws we have seen used against us. The PAFOA guys can rest easy, because hey, they live in PA I would rest easy with my firearms if I lived in PA, too.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would hate to see a fellow law abiding NJ resident getting jammed up on a technicality. When someone asks a question, I will answer to the best of my knowledge and let the asker come to their own conclusion about what he or she should do. If that makes for an ambiguous answer, so be it... but the laws themselves are ambiguous, and I think it's intentional.

[Anselmo 87]

PK90,

 

I agree FOPA should apply NJ to Pa for handgun transport but here is a well researched opposing view point.

 

http://forum.pafoa.o...ely-report.html

 

Worth the read weather you agree or not.

 

I alway and still do rely on FOPA traveling to PA but after reading the above it make you wonder.

 

The link is well researched but totally useless and meaningless. It's just different opinions and biased towards the doom and gloom that once you're in NJ you can't leave the state with a handgun. If you want to think FOPA won't cover you then nothing said on here will change your mind. You seem mad because some of the viewpoints here stated you don't need to do anything fancy or create some mythological range in PA as your destination. In other words, you didn't get the answer you were looking for. Sometimes the simple answer is the right answer.

 

People really go to a range in PA to shoot one shot in order to CCW in PA? That is kind of crazy.

[PK90 3,570]

Well said Anselmo.

[halbautomatisch 60]

Bottom line is.......... If you get stopped by the police in NJ, and it comes to the attention of the cop that there is a firearm in your vehicle, the answer to the "where are you coming from" question, should the cop ask (and you decide to actually answer the question), is always, from a range or gunshop/gunsmith. Just be ready to elaborate further as to it's location. Whether or not you actually went shooting or the gunsmith was even open at the time, is not relevant, only that your intent was to go there.

[halbautomatisch 60]

 

People really go to a range in PA to shoot one shot in order to CCW in PA? That is kind of crazy.

Agreed...... far to many paranoid people on this forum.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Well said Anselmo (again)! And I'll add this: If you're THAT paranoid that you'll drive to a PA range to take one down the pipe (for a technicality) WHY THE HELL are you driving INTO and THROUGH NY State with handgun(s) to get to PA in the first place???? Doesn't make sense to say that FOPA covers you in ANY State with your thinking........

 

If I drive several States away to visit my son in free America and bring him a Black Powder revolver, once I cross the NJ border, I may as well have a wrench in my trunk. If I keep the revolver locked in my trunk, FOPA covers me. And YES, we did take said revolver to a local range during my stay.

 

As far as PA shooters are concerned, those that used to be from Jersey (as well as PA residents that routinely shoot Matches in NJ) go about their business and transport into NJ for recreational shooting all of the time. They just obey NJ transport laws while in NJ. Guns only exist in NJ due to a technicality with Exceptions and Exemptions. Recreational shooting is a recognized Exception/Exemption. NO NEED for "hair-splitting, take-one-shot-at-a range" scare tactic scenarios......

 

And I didn't mean to be "unfriendly" to someone who claims by their Avatar to be a member of the Range where the NRA State Association (and a lot of the Experts in the firearms field) is based.

[vladtepes 1,060]

even Nappen who will historically err on the side of caution agreed you are protected..

 

here is a VERY simple question...

 

if FOPA ONLY applies to the states in between the origin and destination...

 

then it would be logical to assume that the ONLY time you could transport a handgun in the originating state (in this case NJ) is when within the exempted destinations..

 

in NJ that means range.. gun shop.. etc..

 

if that were in fact true.. and ANY other transport was a crime.. and FOPA does NOT cover you while traveling in your state of origin.. then why are people allowed to fly out of NJ with handguns ALL the time... because it would be irrelevant as to if you were going to PA.. FL.. or WV.. again that is assuming that it is assuming FOPA does not protect in the ALL the states traveled through..

 

now if of course it DOES protect.. then flying out of NJ with a gun makes perfect sense.. but you can't have it both ways.. it either protects or does not protect in the home state.. the destination would be moot..

 

Very good point' date=' and duly noted...I will also add this to my question to Nappen.[/quote']

 

 

Just returned from the NJ2AS meeting with Evan Nappen as our guest speaker. It was both amazing and informative.

 

Now for our question. For starters Evan said there is *NO* case study on this topic' date=' none. But he goes on further to say that all though it's a grey area, Federal Preemption and FOPA would cover you. Also said that your home in NJ is the legal place of possession.