Batman Massacre

[vjf915 456]

Retracted.

 

Long story short, it doesn't matter who James WAS, or what any of us THINK he was. At this point, he's commited a horrific crime.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

It appears they are now looking for another person of interest. Someone using the cell phone of Fellow classmate of Holmes called authorities and threatened violence unless Holmes released. They are still saerching for this person who was last seen hours before the masacre leaving his apartment.

http://kdvr.com/2012...eater-shooting/

 

Holy moly, that article is a confusing read!

[RAL1979 9]

And here it comes...actually a semi intelligent article, at least it gives some opinions from our side of the fence.

 

http://www.northjersey.com/news/Powerful_rifle_used_in_Colo_rampage_is_available_in_NJ.html?mobile=1

[EchoMirage 137]

Richard pryor pointed this out a long time ago that crazy whites are sick m*****f*****s, serial killers that decapatate people and stick them in their freezer..

 

and what, there are no crazy black people??

 

couple was carjacked, kidnapped, raped, tortured and killed. media squashed the anti-white racial angle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom

 

8 year old white boy murdered by black man yelling anti-white racial epithets. was not charged with hate crime

http://violenceagainstwhites.wordpress.com/2012/04/29/eightyear-old-white-boy-kevin-shiflett-murdered-by-black-man-spewing-racial-epithets-against-white-people-not-charged-with-a-hate-crime/

 

4 black marines rape, torture and kill an interracial couple in calif. despite evidence found at the scene, racism was not thought of as a motive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jan_Pawel_and_Quiana_Jenkins_Pietrzak

[SHY_Veritas 0]

 

 

Holy moly, that article is a confusing read!

 

I know. I read it and it's definitely confusing. The entire time they referred to Holmes as Holmes but once they referred to him as Egan. Why? Anyway.... This is definitely insane. Ways this world coming to? The lengths people gomtomfor attention.

[Parker 213]

killers that decapatate people and stick them in their freezer

 

Richard "The Iceman" Kuklinksi comes to mind when I saw this. He was crazy. http://en.wikipedia....chard_Kuklinski

 

What's going on in Mexico right now with the cartels and their daily murders and beheading's seems crazy too.

 

Mother Jones omitted a few -

http://www.motherjon...s-shootings-map

[destro23 0]

I wonder what type of AR he had.. because they are saying it jammed. I'm reading he possibly had a drum attached to it... prob the Drum misfeeding it?

 

nevermind just saw the picture of the gun on page 5 of this thread... looks like normal 30rd magazine.

[67gtonut 847]

I wonder what type of AR he had.. because they are saying it jammed. I'm reading he possibly had a drum attached to it... prob the Drum misfeeding it?

 

nevermind just saw the picture of the gun on page 5 of this thread... looks like normal 30rd magazine.

 

It was a S&W M&P-15

[voyager9 3,434]

I think the Onion article (which I can't find ATM) said it best. The outrage and mudslinging and political handwringing over this is predictable and obscene.

 

Gun control isn't the issue. His guns were legal (ever if some of the accessories weren't). And he had no history that would have precluded ownership. Even if they were not, he could have easily gotten them illegally. More importantly. This guy could have just as easily done this without firearms. He already showed willingness to build homemade explosives. Bloomberg and Huffington can cool it.

 

Finally, about the only thing that would have helped here would be if the theater had the exit doors wired. Open an exit door and the movie stops, the lights come on, and security is notified. Would that have stopped this event? Maybe. But it could have helped.

 

Maybe the drum mag was on the Glock? . Or the shot gun.

[PK90 3,570]

Finally, about the only thing that would have helped here would be if the theater had the exit doors wired. Open an exit door and the movie stops, the lights come on, and security is notified. Would that have stopped this event? Maybe. But it could have helped.

CCW would have stopped it and maybe would have prevented it.

[mipafox 438]

His guns were legal (ever if some of the accessories weren't).

 

Out of curiosity, what were the possibly illegal accessories?

[Recon Racoon 49]

CCW would have stopped it and maybe would have prevented it.

As much as I want to agree with this sentiment, I can't. He had body armor on, center mass shots wouldn't work. He had, what is believed to be, a kevlar helmet and throat protector. Couple that with about 100 people running around scared shitless, and an airborne irritant in the air, you would have one hell of a problem hitting him, and not the 30 people running in front of him. As much as I want CCW to be the answer to preventing something like this, it wouldn't have changed a damn thing about the situation.

[BlueLineFish 615]

The only way to end this in a ccw situation is a point blank engagement where you can put the muzzle right where the armor isnt. This would require maneuvering around the chaos where the shooter can see you and you getting him from behind. The other option is multiple individuals converging on the suspect and holding him down. Or beating Him senseless

[mipafox 438]

 

As much as I want to agree with this sentiment, I can't. He had body armor on, center mass shots wouldn't work. He had, what is believed to be, a kevlar helmet and throat protector. Couple that with about 100 people running around scared shitless, and an airborne irritant in the air, you would have one hell of a problem hitting him, and not the 30 people running in front of him. As much as I want CCW to be the answer to preventing something like this, it wouldn't have changed a damn thing about the situation.

 

I think that's most likely but not absolute. There are people that can make head shots under stress and somebody might get a chance to charge him for a good one. I doubt there were many people running around him for very long. Most kevlar helmets do not stop most carry calibers and who knows what he would have done had people started shooting at him. The only thing for sure is something different would have happened.

 

Where opportunity and preparation meet.

 

Not likely, but certainly not out of the question. Heck, if a handful of unarmed people agreed to rush him at once he might have been taken down.

 

One random CC guy seated at a random location that just wants to get out alive, not likely.

[voyager9 3,434]

 

As much as I want to agree with this sentiment, I can't. He had body armor on, center mass shots wouldn't work. He had, what is believed to be, a kevlar helmet and throat protector. Couple that with about 100 people running around scared shitless, and an airborne irritant in the air, you would have one hell of a problem hitting him, and not the 30 people running in front of him. As much as I want CCW to be the answer to preventing something like this, it wouldn't have changed a damn thing about the situation.

 

This. I want to think it would help but it's a tough sell. People compare it with the Internet Cafe robbery as "proof" but the two situations are drastically different.

 

I don't know what accessories were used nits impossible to get anything resembling a fact. The investigation is still getting the real data and the MSM is leaping over themselves to spew anything they can think of (drum mags capable of 50-60 rounds per second?). Hell I'd feel better if they stop using, or at least define, "assault weapon" because I don't believe any were used in this incident.

[67gtonut 847]

As much as I want to agree with this sentiment, I can't. He had body armor on, center mass shots wouldn't work. He had, what is believed to be, a kevlar helmet and throat protector. Couple that with about 100 people running around scared shitless, and an airborne irritant in the air, you would have one hell of a problem hitting him, and not the 30 people running in front of him. As much as I want CCW to be the answer to preventing something like this, it wouldn't have changed a damn thing about the situation.

 

CCW would have made a huge difference...... Your assuming 1 CCW'r .... If 2 or 3 good guys were in the audience carrying..... and "engaged" the target. The minimum that would have had to happen was the bad guy would have had to at least deal with them first..... giving time for more innocent people to get out of the place, thus most likely reducing the loss of life and injuries. Nothing in this world is absolute, but once again...... If Holmes had to defend himself against just a few good people, lives would have been saved.....

[mipafox 438]

 

 

CCW would have made a huge difference...... Your assuming 1 CCW'r .... If 2 or 3 good guys were in the audience carrying..... and "engaged" the target.

 

Better yet, 2 or 3 friends that went to the movie together. If they were the type that were willing to try to stop this at all costs.

[voyager9 3,434]

 

 

CCW would have made a huge difference...... Your assuming 1 CCW'r .... If 2 or 3 good guys were in the audience carrying..... and "engaged" the target. The minimum that would have had to happen was the bad guy would have had to at least deal with them first..... giving time for more innocent people to get out of the place, thus most likely reducing the loss of life and injuries. Nothing in this world is absolute, but once again...... If Holmes had to defend himself against just a few good people, lives would have been saved.....

 

True but flip it around. The worst that could happen is the guys with CCWs tried to engage Holmes and hit innocent innocents in the process then were confused with the original attacker by incoming police and shot and killed. Imagine the news coverage then? I understand that's a very what-if.

 

At a minimum we need to acknowledge that this would have been an extremely adverse tactical situation that would have required an amazing amount of training and fortitude to overcome by anyone inside the theater.

[67gtonut 847]

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Edmund Burke

[mipafox 438]

 

 

True but flip it around. The worst that could happen is the guys with CCWs tried to engage Holmes and hit innocent innocents in the process then were confused with the original attacker by incoming police and shot and killed. Imagine the news coverage then? I understand that's a very what-if.

 

I'm thinking less people would have been shot or died in that scenario. I don't know what I would do, except that I wouldn't be considering the news coverage when making my decision.

 

At a minimum we need to acknowledge that this would have been an extremely adverse tactical situation that would have required an amazing amount of training and fortitude to overcome by anyone inside the theater.

 

Fortitude would be far more important, training might not be necessary. Obviously, training might help quite a bit under many opportunistic scenarios.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

At the first Anti-Gun article that appears, this needs to be spun back on them. The Gun-Free Zone prevented a law abiding person from CCW which would have prevented these mass fatalities.

 

^^^ This ^^^

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PeteF 1,044]

The only way to end this in a ccw situation is a point blank engagement where you can put the muzzle right where the armor isnt. This would require maneuvering around the chaos where the shooter can see you and you getting him from behind. The other option is multiple individuals converging on the suspect and holding him down. Or beating Him senseless

 

I have not seen anything that said he was wearing a helmet (just a gas mask) . As to "body armor" was it IIA maybe? Almost sure it wasn't Class IV.

Type IIA will stop the bullet from going through but the bullets energy goes somewhere. So essentially getting shot with a vest is like getting hit with a sledge hammer. 2 or three shots to a vest will put you out of a fight.

[bulpup 98]

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/07/22/holmes-gun-club-membership-rejected-over-bizarre-behavior/

 

oh ho.

 

"AURORA, Colo. (AP) – Aurora shooting suspect James Holmes applied to join a Colorado gun range but never became a member after the owner became concerned over his “bizarre” message and behavior"

 

"we" or as K-pipes calls it the "collective we" can be quite good at seeing things. All you need to do is talk to people.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Soju 153]

I have not seen anything that said he was wearing a helmet (just a gas mask) . As to "body armor" was it IIA maybe? Almost sure it wasn't Class IV.

Type IIA will stop the bullet from going through but the bullets energy goes somewhere. So essentially getting shot with a vest is like getting hit with a sledge hammer. 2 or three shots to a vest will put you out of a fight.

 

Nearly ever article I read says he had a helmet of some sorts.

 

People have been shot two or three times withOUT body armor, and were still able to fight. Two or three shots WITH body armor would still suck, but people are quite capable of overcoming pain.

 

We can argue the hypothetical "If there were people with a CCW there" angle all day, but it will be rather pointless. Maybe it would have helped save some people. Maybe it would have prevented it. Maybe it would have simply been that a someone CCWing is killed in place of one of the other victims. I don't know. What I do know is that with nobody CCWing, 12 people are dead and like 60 others wounded. What does that mean? Allowing people to CCW would not hurt. Unfortunately the media and anti's try and spin it the other way, without any legitimacy. And people by into it. Because people are scared of inanimate objects.

[mipafox 438]

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/07/22/holmes-gun-club-membership-rejected-over-bizarre-behavior/

 

oh ho.

 

"AURORA, Colo. (AP) – Aurora shooting suspect James Holmes applied to join a Colorado gun range but never became a member after the owner became concerned over his “bizarre” message and behavior"

 

"we" or as K-pipes calls it the "collective we" can be quite good at seeing things. All you need to do is talk to people.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

And do what, Nosy Nellie? What are you going to do when you meet people you don't approve of or make you nervous? Call Janet Napolitano?

[ChrisJM981 924]

And do what, Nosy Nellie? What are you going to do when you meet people you don't approve of or make you nervous? Call Janet Napolitano?

 

Depending on the message perhaps report the person to the local police. It's different when someone is bizarre and attempting to be involved in shooting firearms than say a book club.

[RS1200XL 4]

http://denver.cbsloc...zarre-behavior/

 

oh ho.

 

"AURORA, Colo. (AP) – Aurora shooting suspect James Holmes applied to join a Colorado gun range but never became a member after the owner became concerned over his “bizarre” message and behavior"

 

"we" or as K-pipes calls it the "collective we" can be quite good at seeing things. All you need to do is talk to people.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

To add:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/22/massacre-suspect-james-holmes-gun-range-application-drew-red-flag-for-owner/

 

Apparently the "Cheers" part threw him off?

[mipafox 438]

 

 

Depending on the message perhaps report the person to the local police. It's different when someone is bizarre and attempting to be involved in shooting firearms than say a book club.

 

This is why Jersey is a police state.

 

Nearly half the households in the country own firearms. And I consider a great deal of them bizarre. A lot less join book clubs. I bet I wouldn't pass your standards and you would call the cops on me.

 

If you keep looking at firearms owners that way then I don't know how you can possibly expect Jersey to start treating gun owners any differently than you do.

[silverado427 10,715]

Just a sad story.

[EchoMirage 137]

As much as I want to agree with this sentiment, I can't. He had body armor on, center mass shots wouldn't work. He had, what is believed to be, a kevlar helmet and throat protector. Couple that with about 100 people running around scared shitless, and an airborne irritant in the air, you would have one hell of a problem hitting him, and not the 30 people running in front of him. As much as I want CCW to be the answer to preventing something like this, it wouldn't have changed a damn thing about the situation.

 

and how do you know he didnt specifically choose THAT particular theater because of their 'gun free zones'? how do you know the simple fact that there COULD have been armed patrons there wouldnt have prevented this altogether??

 

why do you think crime is so high in camden, newark, paterson, etc. because the criminals know the populace isnt armed. why do you think crime plummets when CCW is allowed....criminals know the populace could be armed. the simple fact that there COULD be armed citizens is enough to deter a large amount of crime. if carry was allowed in that theater, holmes may have never planned this in the first place.