Is 5.45 Surplus gone?

[ExpendableRaj 1]

It seems the spam cans were everywhere a year or two ago, but as of late, I don't see anything on most major ammo sales websites. Anyone know where they're still selling 5.45 surplus?

 

I'm talking about the military surplus stuff, not wolf/bear/tula etc.

[Dan 177]

Wow, I can't find any at the usual suspect places. I guess the USA needs another ex-Commie ammo shipment!

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Clinton ended surplus ammo sales during his term in office. The stuff you buy now (XM855 and XM193) are QC rejects - that is what the "X" designates before the cartridge designation.

[intercooler 41]

no, there is plenty around, but the impoters are out. Aim and a number of other places claim that they will have it early next month

[Candide 0]

Clinton ended surplus ammo sales during his term in office. The stuff you buy now (XM855 and XM193) are QC rejects - that is what the "X" designates before the cartridge designation.

 

Whaaaa? Thats not cool.

[Tactical Turtle 11]

http://ammoman.com/p/269/750-rounds-of-wolf-545x39-full-metal-jacket

[PK90 3,570]

That is 70% higher than the canned russian stuff. I still have 9 spam cans left.

[raz-0 1,259]

Clinton ended surplus ammo sales during his term in office. The stuff you buy now (XM855 and XM193) are QC rejects - that is what the "X" designates before the cartridge designation.

 

No it doesn't just ask federal. Best explanation I have heard is it is for excess, as in not actually surplus because it is excess production beyond the contract. Selling qc rejects would open them to a world of liability.

 

I've shot a lot of it. It chronos consistently and to spec. The only item I might consider as questionable was the xm193pd or whatever the old bulk sky from 2002-2003ish was. That stuff was ugly, chronoed all over the place, and was the source of the infamous pretzel picture.

 

But as a reasoned argument, who orders m193 at this point for xm193 be the qc rejects from.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

doh! I. of course, was referring to 5.56x45, not the Russian 5.45x39 about which this thread was inquiring.. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[Dan 177]

no, there is plenty around, but the impoters are out. Aim and a number of other places claim that they will have it early next month

 

Just curious, which places say they will have the 5.45 milsurp russian spam cans in early next month?

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

From AR15.com...

 

Due to an Executive Order signed by President Clinton, the US military can no longer "surplus" ammunition, except via the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP), and the CMP does not sell 5.56/.223 ammo. US military ammo (most notably from the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant) used to be widely available, but has become quite scarce and the prices quite high, in the last few years. Though some military ammo components are "saved" by contractors disassembling the ammo and selling the components, most expired or out-of-spec lots of ammo are burned. Billions of rounds of ammo, paid for by US tax dollars, are burned yearly.

Small quantities of loaded ammo are occasionally available, usually at gun shows. This is either old stock from before the ban, police trade-ins, or stolen military ammo. The military has programs where it gives police departments surplus weapons and ammo and these departments sometimes trade this ammo to their ammo distributor for cash or other ammo. The distributors then make the exchanged military ammo available to the civilian market. Quantities are usually small and prices high.

Despite this, military specification ammo (Mil-Spec) is available to the public and can be obtained from a variety of sources.

 

Of course they wouldn't sell something that would open them up to liability, but a QC reject may have some slight aspect out of spec. There was British 5.56x45 ammo (Radway Green IIRC) on the market several years ago that missed the velocity spec by a very small margin, but the whole batch was rejected. Nothing wrong with it and it may very well have chrono'd consistently, just a tad slower than the spec.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[EchoVictor76 1]

I buy my 5.45x39 surplus from http://www.southernohiogun.com/ammo-mags-more/ammunition/russian-5-45x39-military-ammo.html

[raz-0 1,259]

Not going to quote you bob, but the xm193 I'm referring to is lake city. You could buy it then. You can buy it now.

 

There is no qc issue with it. If the military contracts for a million rounds, and atk's factory makes 1.4 million, that .4 million isn't military ammo and Clinton's order means jack. Hence the fact it is easily available today. Post 9-11 for a while they were using 100% capacity, and the only things you were finding were the qc cast offs that got out somehow.

 

This stuff is showing up by the truck full, has been for years, and the last order for m193 by the military was in 2005. Just what is it the qc rejects from then? It's not. It's first run ammo made when they aren't producing contract ammo. Just like new unfired lake city brass isn't defective either when they sell it. It's excess.

 

 

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Matt:

 

This may be a matter of splitting semantic hairs. You have a valid case depending on how you define "surplus", and in retrospect I would have to agree. To me what you describe is surplus, but since the overrun was not part of the contract - thus not military, it is sold on the civilian market. I guess true surplus - to which Clinton's Exec Ord pretains - would be ammo actually dumped on the civilian market by the military, not the manufacturer.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[DevsAdvocate 112]

From AR15.com...

 

Due to an Executive Order signed by President Clinton, the US military can no longer "surplus" ammunition, except via the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP), and the CMP does not sell 5.56/.223 ammo. US military ammo (most notably from the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant) used to be widely available, but has become quite scarce and the prices quite high, in the last few years. Though some military ammo components are "saved" by contractors disassembling the ammo and selling the components, most expired or out-of-spec lots of ammo are burned. Billions of rounds of ammo, paid for by US tax dollars, are burned yearly.

Small quantities of loaded ammo are occasionally available, usually at gun shows. This is either old stock from before the ban, police trade-ins, or stolen military ammo. The military has programs where it gives police departments surplus weapons and ammo and these departments sometimes trade this ammo to their ammo distributor for cash or other ammo. The distributors then make the exchanged military ammo available to the civilian market. Quantities are usually small and prices high.

Despite this, military specification ammo (Mil-Spec) is available to the public and can be obtained from a variety of sources.

 

Of course they wouldn't sell something that would open them up to liability, but a QC reject may have some slight aspect out of spec. There was British 5.56x45 ammo (Radway Green IIRC) on the market several years ago that missed the velocity spec by a very small margin, but the whole batch was rejected. Nothing wrong with it and it may very well have chrono'd consistently, just a tad slower than the spec.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

IMO, if the Gov't never takes possession of it, then it's not considered 'surplus'. Federal (under ATK) produces for the Gov't, then keeps producing the same ammunition for civilian sale.

[Dan 177]

Here's what I got back from Aimsurplus.

 

 

On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Dan <> wrote:

Hello, are you going to be getting more 5.45x39 milsurp spamcan ammo back in stock?

 

Dan

 

--------------------------

We hope to but have none lined up for sure at this time.

 

Thanks,

 

Stephen

[Johnny 0]

600 rounds for $98 or $93 as a club member. If you join the club ($29.99) they will ship it free and send you two $10 coupons.

 

• Steel cased
  
• 52 grain Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) steel core bullet
  
• Corrosive
  
• Non-reloadable
  
• Berdan primed.
  

 

 

 

http://www.sportsman...px?a=309193&e=Y

[RecessedFilter 222]

Not sure what sites you're looking on, but there is still a ton of 5.45x39 surplus on numerous ammo sites.

[Dan 177]

Info over at ar15.com, with comments from Aimsurplus and SG ammo. 5.45x39 spamcans are dried up in the country besides whatever retailers still have a few around. Apparently there are tons of it in eastern Europe, but the few main importers of the stuff seem to be not interested in grabbing it up. Speculation is that the ex-commie guys want more $$ for it after seeing what it was being sold for in the USA. What they don't realize is all of the hidden costs of snatching it up out of armories, shipping, distribution, warehousing, etc and room for profit.

 

Most likely we will see it come back, but probably at a higher price. The thing is, if it isn't that much of a better deal over the commercial Russian stuff like Wolf, there is no point in it as I'd rather buy that then some slightly corrosive 70's and 80's surplus.

 

http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=4&f=54&t=142879&page=1

[Johnny 0]

Here's what I got back from Aimsurplus.

 

 

On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Dan <> wrote:

Hello, are you going to be getting more 5.45x39 milsurp spamcan ammo back in stock?

 

Dan

 

--------------------------

We hope to but have none lined up for sure at this time.

 

Thanks,

 

Stephen

 

1080rd spam cans back in stock at AIM

[Sticky Grips 4]

Aim and ammoman have the 5.45 back in stock.

[Dan 177]

Yikes, $164 a can, the last time I bought them from Aim they were $129. Still a good deal over the Wolf or Bear new manufacture stuff, but just not the ridiculously good deal that it used to be.

 

Ammoman is at $199

Gasp