Gun safe questions - weight, floor mounts, etc

[RecessedFilter 222]

Ok so I've had something more in the lines of a 'gun cabinet' for a while, pretty much just for storage instead of security, fire protection, and weight. Now it's time to move onto something a bit better, while still being under $700.

 

I have a couple questions that I'm sure some of you could answer. For reference, I am looking at a few safes in the -$700 range. No they are not top of the line $3k safes, but they are good for what my needs are. They range from 300-700lbs in terms of weight.

 

I know most people put their gigantic heavy gun safes in the basement. That means you bolt them to the concrete floor via a hammer drill and bolts/expansion anchors. What do you do in terms of mounting them to a wood floor? Just drill out the holes for the bolts into the floor studs or what? I feel like concrete would be a much stronger way to secure it, but my basement frequently floods which eliminates that as a possibility for the safe.

 

Now what about weight, a substantial amount of weight (say 700lb safe, plus guns), on a first floor of a house? I can't think of anything in our house that weighs that much (maybe an old piano at probably 300-400lbs) but that's less weight yet our floor has seemed to handle it well. Could this possibly be too heavy (700lbs) for wood floors? Cracking, splitting, etc? Does anyone beef up the area that they are going to put their safe in?

 

What about transportation from the store to the specified safe area in the house, what did you do? What about getting it off your truck you picked it up in? 700lbs is not light, so I was thinking of having myself and 4 other beefy friends help me take it off the truck and bring it into the house, probably via a large dolly. There are only 4 steps it has to come up and then it's a rather straight shot from then on.

 

Would appreciate some feedback...

[Shocker 139]

Residential construction is supposed to take 40 lb/ft^2 of live load but it depends on your particular house what its really going to withstand. You could always put a jack post directly under it but if you have 2x12 floor joists and it's a small span I would think the floor could take it.

[RubberBullets 65]

Depending on the weight.. the heavier you get you may want to stick close to load bearing walls. This will reduce the possibility of floor joist sagging as it is directly supported by the strongest part of the structure. Also if possible, a plate underneath the safe larger than the safe's footprint to help distribute the weight along a greater surface area.

[RecessedFilter 222]

Residential construction is supposed to take 40 lb/ft^2 of live load but it depends on your particular house what its really going to withstand. You could always put a jack post directly under it but if you have 2x12 floor joists and it's a small span I would think the floor could take it.

 

I was actually thinking about this, putting some sort of support (aka jack) in the basement from the floor of the basement to the ceiling underneath where the safe will be located. The only thing that I was hesitant about is if someone broke into the house and went into the basement, seeing a jack would make it obvious that there is something heavy..which most likely means expensive..above it. But the safe will probably be in a side room so even though it won't be seen by walking through a hallway, all you have to do is open the door and see it sitting there you know? But at the same time, I'm not trying to hide it very well or else I'd put it in a closet or something. So maybe a jack may be a good idea...

 

So in terms of live load, the safe will be approximately 2ft x 2.5ft. Weight will be 700lbs for the safe and maybe another 80lbs with guns and other things in, so approximately almost 800lbs let's say. You're saying 40lbs/ft above the second floor, is that the >2?

 

Depending on the weight.. the heavier you get you may want to stick close to load bearing walls. This will reduce the possibility of floor joist sagging as it is directly supported by the strongest part of the structure. Also if possible, a plate underneath the safe larger than the safe's footprint to help distribute the weight along a greater surface area.

 

This is some good advice, thank you. I was thinking about the second part, and how 700lbs in an area of roughly 3ft x 3ft worries me more rather than say in an area of 6ft x 6ft or something much larger. So the plate idea is smart to disperse the weight.

[Pizza Bob 1,483]

I think that sometimes people go waaaaay overboard when buying a firearm safe. A safe is there to stop amateurs/junkies and the like. For that purpose, almost any safe will do. If somewhat light in weight, secure it to the floor with lag bolts. People that spend thousands on a safe with a 6" door and ten active locking lugs, etc, etc, often fail to realize the door is the least vulnerable area - usually the sides and back are nothing more than 10 ga. A drill and a sawz-all will get you in that in short order. If they can't carry it off en toto, and the door is pry resistant, you should be GTG. It helps to put it somewhere where the sides and back are not easily accessible - just to make life more difficult for the bad guy. If a professional wants your guns - most of these safes are not going to stop them.

 

Fire protection is another questionable feature, but not one I have researched thoroughly, so I haven't formed an opinion on that yet. My preliminary thought is that it's another gimmick to part you from your money. But that's just me. Good luck.

 

BTW, to any bad guys reading this: Yes I do have a safe - actually several. I'm an OK shot also

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Shocker 139]

So in terms of live load, the safe will be approximately 2ft x 2.5ft. Weight will be 700lbs for the safe and maybe another 80lbs with guns and other things in, so approximately almost 800lbs let's say. You're saying 40lbs/ft above the second floor, is that the >2?

 

Not sure I follow your math here but a 40psf average in a 10'x10' (100sf) room is 4,000lbs.

 

You obviously can't put a 2-ton safe in there because the weight can't be spread around, but 800lbs is still probably ok, you just don't want much else in that room.

 

Does the safe have legs? or flat bottom? Legs could be an issue if the floor is just thin plywood subfloor. And if you've tiled that room you'd have to subtract the weight of the tiles since you've increased the dead load.

 

I also think it's way more likely that a BG would open the door to the room than it is for him to go in the basement, see a post and say "hmm, there must be something valuable above this!"

[rifleman 90]

Don't worry about the BG taking the safe or busting into it. They are in and out in 3 minutes or less. It takes a good hour to peel a safe. I had to do it once. Bolt it down thru the bottom and shut the door, that's all you need. Support from below is a good idea.

[RecessedFilter 222]

Bob, I understand everything that you're saying, and quite frankly agree that people tend to do more than what is needed in terms of safes/installation. But the main 3 features I am looking for are heavy weight, the internal organization (how the safe is set up inside), and lastly the safe company and warranty. Fire protection is nice but I am not too worried about that, as well as looks.

 

I'm hopefully going to another store tomorrow to shop around and check out anything that I haven't seen on my radar.

[Arbelest 29]

Know any engineers? The best thing to do if you have one as a friend is to ask them. As Shocker has hinted, if you have tiles on your floor that were added onto the house after construction, your floor load is already under added stress if the floor wasn't designed for their weight. Adding a 700+ lb safe to that floor, the floor most likely won't break, but the floor will be under a lot of stress and will wear a lot more over time. Putting a plate under the safe and next to a load bearing wall is also a good idea to help distribute the weight across the floor.

 

I may just be repeating what others have said and highlighting the key points, but I'm just adding emphasis.

[RecessedFilter 222]

Haha I didn't even think about that. One of my friends went to school for engineering, not sure which type, but I can ask her and see what she says.

 

The floor doesn't have tiles. It's just a plain old wooden floor. And all the safes I am looking at have flat bottoms.

[Shocker 139]

You can ask an engineer (I am an ME) but the problem is residential houses are not engineered. They're built to a pattern and if you're lucky they follow the local building code.

 

Unless you're going to have someone do a lot of measuring and math (is the subfloor 3/4"? 5/8"? glued and screwed? because that changes the load capacity!) you're going to have to take a leap at some point or be very conservative like this fellow: http://www.ar15.com/...=1&f=5&t=160653

[FnF8guy 1]

If you already have a "gun cabinet" to keep your guns relatively secure, you might want to considering waiting and saving more. I'm not sure that a $700 safe will be a significant improvement for you over a cabinet.

[RecessedFilter 222]

You can ask an engineer (I am an ME) but the problem is residential houses are not engineered. They're built to a pattern and if you're lucky they follow the local building code.

 

Unless you're going to have someone do a lot of measuring and math (is the subfloor 3/4"? 5/8"? glued and screwed? because that changes the load capacity!) you're going to have to take a leap at some point or be very conservative like this fellow: http://www.ar15.com/...=1&f=5&t=160653

 

I am not good at high levels at math, and that's probably why I hate it.

 

With that said, I only got about 4 sentences into that one huge post with all that math lol. Way too much for me.

___________________

 

I ended up getting a Winchester. It's a bit small but it does the job I want it to and it has a combo dial instead of electronic which I really like. I don't mind having two safes, and now I won't have to worry about any weight issues either.

 

I thought a lot about this and I think I made the best choice for my situation so I am happy with it.

[djg0770 480]

Drez,

 

You already consulted with a Mechanical Engineer...

[Sniper 6,372]

2 hours ago, Matthew Kerr said:

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[Matthew Kerr 0]

52 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Really?

I don't even know you!

Don't let my wife find out....

It was the sniper rifle I meant, it's not you  

lmao, you made my day