Help me with AK purchase

[DTtuner 21]

I don't mean suggestions, advise, etc.

I literally need someone who is knowledgable to help me select, and purchase a quality AK.

 

So far my research has led me to believe that the top 2 best choices are Yugo, and Arsenal AKs.

 

But then the NJ legality question comes into play. The "NJ legal" issue is so frustrating that I would rather ask a fellow forum member to choose a rifle for me.

 

Criteria:

7.62

$500-999

No WASRs, or cheapo rifles.

Double-stack mag well (possible?)

 

 

Sounds lazy, I know.

An quite frankly it is part laziness, but mostly frustration.

[DonG 0]

I have a mak 90 and like it it has a thick reciever good trigger, takes ak mags.... I love it. easy to convert to origional akstyle use 922 info.. But the guy that will set you strait. Our very own ak guru VladTepes.He will tell u what you need to know.. Good luck..

[mcbethr 42]

And cue Vlad in 3...2...1

 

He's probably the best guy to answer this question.

[rightisright 3]

MAK-90 : http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=305575816 Best stock trigger of any AR I've fired. Downside:If you don't like the thumbhole stock, you need to do the 922r dance. No side rail, but that can be worked around.

 

How about a Saiga? Converted or unconverted. IIRC, Heritage Guild had an unconverted for $400 a few months ago. Get to know your rifle by converting it.

 

Want to spend a little more coin? Get an Arsenal.

[rightisright 3]

I'd also add the VEPR to the mix

[acuevo 0]

i just bought a norinco mak 90 (chinese). most are jersey legal out of the box and regarded by many as one of the best AKs you can get. i shot it on tuesday and it was a blast (literally!!). they are different from most AKs in that the stamped recievers are i think 1.6 mm thick. also some of the recievers are cut at an angle on the back, if you want to replace the furnature make sure you get the straight cut one or be ready to spend like 180 on an ironwood designs stock set.

 

theres a couple on gun broker ranging from 500 to 1100. they will all be used since they were only imported for a few years in the early 90s and late 80s (i think).

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Rifles/BI.aspx?Keywords=mak+90

 

the only problem i had with mine was the thumbhole stock... but i ordered a timber smith stock set that is pretty nice, although i had to trim it up to fit. if you go that route make sure your straight on your 922 compliance.. i replaced stock and forearm, added a pistol grip and replaced the fire control group for a total of 6 us parts.

[DTtuner 21]

Thanks all!

I'll PM Vlad, but didn't want to bother him directly.

He probably gets 4000 Q's a day about AKs.

 

Are standard Arsenal or Yugo AK's 922 compliant?

 

See... this is what I'm talking about. Already I'm delving into the world of researching AK's.

Not that I think it's not worth the effort...

It's just that I'd rather take advantage of someone else's knowledge, than go through the whole "you can't have the best choice because NJ sucks balls."

 

I'd rather not know what I can't have, and just get links to what I can buy.

[Teky0101 6]

I also have heard VEPR's are really well made!

[DTtuner 21]

I'm looking for a more traditional AK.

[petros600 12]

Paul(pk90) got some nice Vepr's at the shop at a great price!!!

[acuevo 0]

922 is a federal law, so any AK needs to fall into that catagory. the reason the maks need to have several parts changed is because theyre not an 'assault weapon' due to the thumbhole stock which isn't considered a pistol grip. therefore all parts on a mak are chinese when you buy it.. i think the veprs are the same way.

[RecessedFilter 222]

I think you're thinking way too much into this. If you want to mess around with 922r compliance, be my guest. If you wanna take the easier route, just buy a nice AK and have it neutered [if it needs to be].

 

I'd suggest anything on an NDS receiver, but you can't always get what you want.

 

Since you're in the price range of anything under a grand, check out Arsenals. They are top notch AK's and run $850+. If you're looking for something lower in price, also check out Waffenwerks (top of the line but reasonably priced, built on NDS receivers), Interarms, IO Inc, and any Yugo. Most of those are nice builds and people have had good things to say about them.

 

In terms of NJ legalities, it has to have a muzzle brake/nut welded onto the barrel if the barrel is threaded. If it has a bayonet lug, it will have to be shaved off. No collapsible or adjustable stocks. No mags over 15rds. That's pretty much it. Yes there is more but for an AK, that is it...if I'm leaving anything out, someone can fill in.

[RecessedFilter 222]

VEPR's are nice but if you're looking for a fighting rifle, they are not really what you want. Some of them, with the heavy barrels, would make nice target rifles though.

[vladtepes 1,060]

For the money that you are talking.. you can buy a high quality gun off the shelf.. and settle for off the shelf.. of you can buy a high quality base (saiga) and build the rifle of your dreams..

 

There are quite a few AK variants out there in the 500-1000 range.. the reason I have chosen Saiga time and time again.. is because I can purchase a Russian built AK and then create the exact rifle I envision.. there may be a time where a "Russian AK" is a thing of the past.. and having one in my safe that I built to my specifications is gratifying..

 

Saigas have never been anything but reliable for me..

 

922 compliance is SIMPLE

 

making them accept standard AK mags is SIMPLE.. (hell I made a 556 Saiga take AR15 mags)

 

 

 

but I question the caliber choice... it is no secret that I used to be a die hard 7.62x39 fan.. but then I made a few changes and started shooting an AR15 more often and started to notice something.. 7.62 is a nice strong caliber.. but it starts to drop at pretty short distances.. making it exclusively a short range rifle.. also the majority of the ammo is imported.. for those reasons I switched to a 556 AK variant and to be honest.. am not looking back..

 

I can provide you with any specific Saiga info you would be interested in..

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

You can make the "exact rifle you envision" from any AK variant, and all with less work than a Saiga.

 

[DTtuner 21]

but I question the caliber choice... it is no secret that I used to be a die hard 7.62x39 fan.. but then I made a few changes and started shooting an AR15 more often and started to notice something.. 7.62 is a nice strong caliber.. but it starts to drop at pretty short distances.. making it exclusively a short range rifle.. also the majority of the ammo is imported.. for those reasons I switched to a 556 AK variant and to be honest.. am not looking back..

 

Caliber choice is pretty simple: Cost, and stopping power.

 

I envision my AK to be "traditional" in all aspects. Including using only iron sights, wood stock, 7.62x39 ammo, etc.

 

This actually brings-up another question...

 

7.62x39... or 5.45x39 (ak74) ?

EDIT: Nevermind... 7.62x39 is what I want.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

OK, so count the Saiga out. The 90 degree gas block and block vents is an eyesore if you are going traditional, and basically any stamped rifle for that matter

 

You have one economical option, polish milled. Well, for an actual traditional rifle. Some people consider a WASR-10 AKM traditional but that design is about a decade older than the original AK.

 

Just so happens the polish milled is the nicest quality AK I've ever handled too, and I dont have a one time wonder either, I've had probably about 5 come through my shop and they are all amazing. Beyond arsenal quality...

 

Not sure if they are still available retail, JG used to carry them and they may still but its blocked at work here. They are becoming a collectors piece. The only thing not correct on them is the lightening cut was done with an end mill and not a horizontal key cutter. The end radius is not quite correct.

 

Best part is, they used to be $589. I think they have went up substantially though.

 

 

 

 

 

You could always masquerade an AK74 to be an older style as well if you dont like the brake but like the caliber. But then its not historically correct for...anything. However, if you do decide to go this route the best choice is the SAR-2 (seen below) since it is the ONLY 5.45 with 45 degree gas block. The 90's are a dead giveaway of being more modern

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

you should get whatever you want then..

 

some people just get an idea of a look they want and go for it.. the fact that you could build a quality AK with great fit and finish only to have one of these individuals point out that the gas block is a 90 degree angle is comical at best.. well anyway.. you get the idea..

 

as far as what to get... as long as you avoid garbage its honestly not going to matter.. the rifle becomes useless at any decent range.. so at the distances you likely would be using it any quality AK should hit a man sized target...

 

I am not sure what you mean by stopping power.. about the only advantage 7.62 has is penetrating light barriers.. if you make a center mass hit with 556 or 7.62 pretty confident both would stop..

 

as far as cost.. when you compare apples to apples.. cheap steel cased steel ammo is pretty similar in cost... when you factor in the fact that the majority of 7.62x39 ammo is imported for me that generated a concern.. if I can run 556 or 7.62 at the same cost... I chose 556 due to domestic production and compatibility with many US firearms... sure there are a TON of guns in the US that take 7.62x39... but what if importation taxes or regulations on imported ammunition went through the roof tomorrow in an effort to control guns... what would be more available.. what would be more cost effective.. again the reason I went 556.. I have had 7.62 guns.. 5.45 gun... they were just fine.. the only advantage of 556 was domestic production and a vast ammo selection..

 

but again.. if you definitely want 7.62 you have choices.. and as Glen stated a Saiga may not be the best choice.. I love the guns they have been insanely reliable, but the choice is yours..

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

...the fact that you could build a quality AK with great fit and finish only to have one of these individuals point out that the gas block is a 90 degree angle is comical at best...

 

Its not comical if you want a traditional look.

 

Its like restoring a WWII Sherman tank and putting a post-war isreali turret on it. Sure it works just as good but if you want it to look correct/how you want it, its not going to work.

 

There is not really a downside to a 90' gas block.... unless you want traditional look. Which he does. So stuff like that...is not comical

[vladtepes 1,060]

Its not comical if you want a traditional look.

 

Its like restoring a WWII Sherman tank and putting a post-war isreali turret on it. Sure it works just as good but if you want it to look correct/how you want it, its not going to work.

 

There is not really a downside to a 90' gas block.... unless you want traditional look. Which he does. So stuff like that...is not comical

 

on another note

when did traditional AKs start to come with rear peep sights? just curious..

[superbee 2]

Or you could get a Arsenal SLR-106UR like i just did and be done with it...You get what you pay for with guns...As soon as my faux PBS-5 can arrives back from the anodizer i will have pics up....

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

on another note

when did traditional AKs start to come with rear peep sights? just curious..

 

And when did true AKs come semi auto only?

 

Jesus dude, you dont have to be so caustic. I put them on for range use. Not permenent, I keep the original sight, and %100 restorable in 2 minutes or less. If you can change gas blocks that easy then go for it. But that is going to stick out alot more than a peep and wont gain you anything like a peep will.

[DTtuner 21]

How does this fine rifle look to you?

 

Not exactly traditional, but good quality and "turn-key" ready.

Would need vendor to pin muzzle brake and cut bayo lug, or have them ship to someone who could:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=1216&virtuemart_category_id=23&Itemid=762

[Turbotezza 1]

I'd add in the Hungarian SA85M (fixed stock) to the list. General consensus is that it is one of the best stamped AK style rifles. Ok, I'm biased cuz I have one.

 

There is a nice looking one on GB right now. Looks to be ban stste legal too. (Tell him to keep the mag)

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=306653058

[vladtepes 1,060]

And when did true AKs come semi auto only?

 

Jesus dude, you dont have to be so caustic. I put them on for range use. Not permenent, I keep the original sight, and %100 restorable in 2 minutes or less. If you can change gas blocks that easy then go for it. But that is going to stick out alot more than a peep and wont gain you anything like a peep will.

 

you are the cause of my attitude.. you knock parts that are not authentic... but then use non authentic parts that YOU decide are ok....

 

"THAT IS NOT A REAL AK GAS BLOCK... WHAT A TERRIBLE ANGLE IT IS AT... OMG IT IS BURNING MY EYES... SO TERRIBLE"

 

"oh yeah well that peep site is not original.. but I keep the inferior original part, and swap back and forth... so that totally justifies it"

 

 

hyp·o·crite

noun \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\

 

2

: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

 

But its OK man.. whatever feels right to you.. I'm not trying to pick on you or anything...

just saying thats all..

[vladtepes 1,060]

How does this fine rifle look to you?

 

Not exactly traditional, but good quality and "turn-key" ready.

Would need vendor to pin muzzle brake and cut bayo lug, or have them ship to someone who could:

http://www.atlanticf...d=23&Itemid=762

 

As stated never had an issue with my Saigas...

 

Paul in the south can do compliance work... and I even think Glen does some compliance work in the other direction..

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

you are the cause of my attitude.. you knock parts that are not authentic... but then use non authentic parts that YOU decide are ok....

 

"THAT IS NOT A REAL AK GAS BLOCK... WHAT A TERRIBLE ANGLE IT IS AT... OMG IT IS BURNING MY EYES... SO TERRIBLE"

 

"oh yeah well that peep site is not original.. but I keep the inferior original part, and swap back and forth... so that totally justifies it"

 

 

 

But its OK man.. whatever feels right to you.. I'm not trying to pick on you or anything...

just saying thats all..

 

Wow.

 

OK lets put this into another perspective. We each have a classic car, lets say a 69 camaro (yay!).

You roll up in your camaro and you have a brand new crate LS7 dropped in, supercharged. All new suspension, new wild paintjob, lambo doors (yuck) etc etc.

I roll up in mine with %100 original parts, with the exception of a CD player temporarily hooked up for the long drive. Its not permenent, doesnt stand out, and adds comfort (like the peeps )

 

For some reason, we get into an internet based pissing contest about who is right. We part ways saying neither is right, neither are wrong, its subjective. Which is usually the conclusion we come to.

 

You are the pimped out car(saiga). It is more powerfull due to the brandy new crate motor, and better handling with the suspension.

My original is more...original, and classic.

 

Then, somebody asks on the internet saying hey, I want a traditional camaro (AK...)

 

you say, hey dude, do what I did. Get a camaro (saiga) and do all this shit to it. In the end, it wont look like a traditional camaro but its all I know so do it.

 

Then I say, hey, heres what I know about traditional camaros (AKs). Here is an example of mine.

 

Then you come storming into the thread...

 

BUT OH MY GOD, HOW DARE YOU, YOU HAVE A CD PLAYER THAT IS EASILY REMOVABLE. HYPOCRITE!

 

The difference between you and I is that while I like traditional AKs, I have reccomended different things to different people. Meanwhile, all you ever spew is SAIGA. If someone wanted a milled rifle you would probably tell them theres no option because izhevsk doesnt make one.

 

Besides, even if we agreed the sights are just as bad as the gas block...

No rifles come with the sights. I am not suggesting them to him either.

Saigas all come with the gas blocks. By suggesting Saiga you are suggesting the gas block.

 

So, fundamentally you are wrong there as well.

 

Can you easily distinguish that this doesnt have original sights?

 

 

 

 

No, but you can clearly distinguish the 90 degree block between the above and below.

 

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

Wow.

 

OK lets put this into another perspective. We each have a classic car, lets say a 69 camaro (yay!).

You roll up in your camaro and you have a brand new crate LS7 dropped in, supercharged. All new suspension, new wild paintjob, lambo doors (yuck) etc etc.

I roll up in mine with %100 original parts, with the exception of a CD player temporarily hooked up for the long drive. Its not permenent, doesnt stand out, and adds comfort (like the peeps )

 

For some reason, we get into an internet based pissing contest about who is right. We part ways saying neither is right, neither are wrong, its subjective. Which is usually the conclusion we come to.

 

You are the pimped out car(saiga). It is more powerfull due to the brandy new crate motor, and better handling with the suspension.

My original is more...original, and classic.

 

Then, somebody asks on the internet saying hey, I want a traditional camaro (AK...)

 

you say, hey dude, do what I did. Get a camaro (saiga) and do all this shit to it. In the end, it wont look like a traditional camaro but its all I know so do it.

 

Then I say, hey, heres what I know about traditional camaros (AKs). Here is an example of mine.

 

Then you come storming into the thread...

 

BUT OH MY GOD, HOW DARE YOU, YOU HAVE A CD PLAYER THAT IS EASILY REMOVABLE. HYPOCRITE!

 

The difference between you and I is that while I like traditional AKs, I have reccomended different things to different people. Meanwhile, all you ever spew is SAIGA. If someone wanted a milled rifle you would probably tell them theres no option because izhevsk doesnt make one.

 

 

 

the problem.. is that you talk shit for the sake of talking shit.. and that my friend is the problem... go read the thread.. read the words that are there.. in the order they are written in..

 

I told him you can get a HIGH QUALITY pre built AK off the shelf.. which he can.. OR he can build EXACTLY what he wants..

he then stated he wanted a traditional AK look

I then stated he should do what HE wants (buy one put together OR build a Saiga) the choice is his...

 

The reality is I don't care.. I simply answered the questions that are asked of me.. and the reason it is asked of me? is because I have put together some decently running guns... I have sold guns that I built for myself that people have gone on to have really good success with.. and have offered advice to many others..

 

I don't have stock in the production of Saigas... I have helped a few friends with conversions but I dont build guns for profit... so really there is no benefit for me.. I am just relaying my experience...

 

the reality is you feel your gun is "traditional AK" because it looks more the part... but that is all it does.. it looks the part.. the reality is NONE of these guns are "original traditional AKs" so what does it even matter really.. your AK clone is more an AK clone because it had a certain gas block? come on man..

 

and THAT is where we disagree...

 

I bailed on 7.62x39 a long time ago.. I have no dog in this fight.. my only 2 AKs left are complete mutt abominations..

 

drum fed 12 gauge shotgun AR parts equipped AK

556 AR mag fed AR parts equipped AK

 

so really.. for the last time..

you have some nice guns.. there is no question about it.. but I honestly don't care "how traditional" they are because my AR will accurately hit further than any average AK clone.. and if I want nuts reliable I have the AK I built to run 556 with AR mags.. so honestly.. no need to take it so personally.. no pissing contest because I dont care.. I don't care if you like my guns.. I built them for me.. and me only..

 

do you get it? kind of?

[vladtepes 1,060]

you know.. I NEVER tell people get a Saiga that is your only option.. I post my experience.. show my guns.. and many times people go that way... never heard anyone complain of the advice I offer.. well except maybe you..

 

for the record.. I think ANYONE should buy WHATEVER gun THEY WANT...

I am simply relaying my personal experience...

 

for the record IMO "classic" is overrated.. for me "performance" trumps original equipment.. which I guess is why I never leave things alone when I purchase them....

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

the problem.. is that you talk shit for the sake of talking shit.. and that my friend is the problem... go read the thread.. read the words that are there.. in the order they are written in.. No, actually I cued in and said the Saiga isnt traditional, which it isnt. And that started you exploding. Hence, you are the shit talker. But I digress

 

I told him you can get a HIGH QUALITY pre built AK off the shelf.. which he can.. OR he can build EXACTLY what he wants..

he then stated he wanted a traditional AK look

I then stated he should do what HE wants (buy one put together OR build a Saiga) the choice is his...Yes, this is true. But a built saiga to be traditional is really uneconomical and senseless unless you consider slapping a wood stock on traditional, which it isnt.

 

The reality is I don't care.. I simply answered the questions that are asked of me.. and the reason it is asked of me? is because I have put together some decently running guns... I have sold guns that I built for myself that people have gone on to have really good success with.. and have offered advice to many others.. And I have built "tactical" AKs as well, but the difference is that I've delt with more than just one rifle brand...

 

I don't have stock in the production of Saigas... I have helped a few friends with conversions but I dont build guns for profit... so really there is no benefit for me.. I am just relaying my experience...

 

the reality is you feel your gun is "traditional AK" because it looks more the part... but that is all it does.. it looks the part.. the reality is NONE of these guns are "original traditional AKs" so what does it even matter really.. your AK clone is more an AK clone because it had a certain gas block? come on man.. Well, the 90 blocks would look out of place on a rifle from 20 years before it was invented. Again, its like having a brand new motor in that vintage car and calling it traditional

 

and THAT is where we disagree...

 

I bailed on 7.62x39 a long time ago.. I have no dog in this fight.. my only 2 AKs left are complete mutt abominations..

 

drum fed 12 gauge shotgun AR parts equipped AK

556 AR mag fed AR parts equipped AK

 

so really.. for the last time..

you have some nice guns.. there is no question about it.. but I honestly don't care "how traditional" That sums up how valuable your advice on a traditional gun is.

they are because my AR will accurately hit further than any average AK clone.. and if I want nuts reliable I have the AK I built to run 556 with AR mags.. so honestly.. no need to take it so personally.. no pissing contest because I dont care.. I don't care if you like my guns.. I built them for me.. and me only..

 

do you get it? kind of? Nope