Plate scanners--again

[leahcim 680]

http://professional...._LEFTTopStories

 

When I read the first thread on this topic I did not think it was a huge constitutional issue--I assumed individual cars scanning plates and stopping cars if their were warrants, stolen car, etc. I never imagined the idea of retaining that data--ever plate-scan--and keeping it forever in a database.

 

I find this disturbing. Sounds like there is very little legal guidance as to how the data can be used, who can access, with or without warrant, and how long the data are retained. Basically for around $50K a town can buy a few plate scanners and some software that would coordinate plate data with time and location and DMV registration records to allow anyone with access to essentially track anyone's movement--where you go, when, how long you stay, etc. They could also merge their data with adjacent towns to get a broader scope. Some states and municipalities have instituted guidelines--e.g. NH has banned the practice, Maine has a 21 day maximum retention period, NJ "requires officers to have "specific and articulable facts" of "possible criminal or terrorist activity" before looking up a car owner." But several towns have them installed in police cars that can monitor plates all the time. And two large repo firms are using them in several of their cars--esssentially building their own private vehicle tracking databases.

 

On the one hand, there is no law against taking pictures of people or their vehicles/plates in public; and no expectation of privacy. But when inexpensive capability afforded by technological advances allows such detailed tracking and surviellance, doesn't it cross a line into our 4A expectation of privacy--by going beyond just taking pictures in public, or following someone. It seems the capability to collect on sucha a large scale and correlate in huge databases does intrude into one's expectation of privacy and the original intent of the 4A. It is around 2000 words, but worth the read.

 

 

From the WSJ:

For more than two years, the police in San Leandro, Calif., photographed Mike Katz-Lacabe's Toyota Tercel almost weekly. They have shots of it cruising along Estudillo Avenue near the library, parked at his friend's house and near a coffee shop he likes. In one case, they snapped a photo of him and his two daughters getting out of a car in his driveway.

Mr. Katz-Lacabe isn't charged with, or suspected of, any crime. Local police are tracking his vehicle automatically, using cameras mounted on a patrol car that record every nearby vehicle—license plate, time and location.

"Why are they keeping all this data?" says Mr. Katz-Lacabe, who obtained the photos of his car through a public-records request. "I've done nothing wrong."

 

Until recently it was far too expensive for police to track the locations of innocent people such as Mr. Katz-Lacabe. But as surveillance technologies decline in cost and grow in sophistication, police are rapidly adopting them. Private companies are joining, too. At least two start-up companies, both founded by "repo men"—specialists in repossessing cars or property from deadbeats—are currently deploying camera-equipped cars nationwide to photograph people's license plates, hoping to profit from the data they collect.

 

The rise of license-plate tracking is a case study in how storing and studying people's everyday activities, even the seemingly mundane, has become the default rather than the exception. Cellphone-location data, online searches, credit-card purchases, social-network comments and more are gathered, mixed-and-matched, and stored in vast databases.

 

Data about a typical American is collected in more than 20 different ways during everyday activities, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis. Fifteen years ago, more than half of these types of surveillance tools were unavailable or not in widespread use, says Col. Lisa Shay, a professor of electrical engineering at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point who studies tracking.

"What would the 1950s Soviet Union have done with the technology we have now?" says Col. Shay. "We don't have a police state in this country, but we have the technology."

Law-enforcement agents say they are using this information only to catch bad guys.

During the past five years, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security has distributed more than $50 million in federal grants to law-enforcement agencies—ranging from sprawling Los Angeles to little Crisp County, Ga., pop. 23,000—for automated license-plate recognition systems. A 2010 study estimates that more than a third of large U.S. police agencies use automated plate-reading systems.

The information captured is considerable. Through a public-records act request, The Journal obtained two years' worth of plate information from the Riverside County Sheriff's Department in California. From Sept. 10, 2010, to Aug. 27, 2012, the sheriff's cameras captured about 6 million license-plate scans.

The sheriff's 49 camera-equipped vehicles scanned about 2 million unique plates. The average plate in the database was scanned three times over the two-year period. Less than 1% of plates were tracked extensively—hundreds of times, and occasionally thousands.

First Amendment Issues

 

 

A report by the International Association of Chiefs of Police warns that "recording driving habits" could raise First Amendment concerns. It noted that plate readers might record "vehicles parked at addiction-counseling meetings, doctors' offices, health clinics, or even staging areas for political protests." The association urged members to consider establishing "more specific criteria for granting access" to the information and to designate it only for "official use."

 

License-plate databases contain revealing information about people's locations. Police can generally obtain it without a judge's approval. By comparison, prosecutors typically get a court order to install GPS trackers on people's cars or to track people's location via cellphone.

License-plate databases don't contain names and addresses of vehicle owners, although that information is available from separate state Department of Motor Vehicle databases. The Driver's Privacy Protection Act, passed in 1994 to thwart stalkers, limits public access to the DMV's information but nevertheless allows car owners' names and addresses to be obtained by government agencies, police, private investigators, insurers, researchers, private toll operators and, in some states, journalists. The data is still sometimes subject to abuse.

In 1998, for instance, a police lieutenant in Washington, D.C., pleaded guilty to extortion after looking up the plates of vehicles near a gay bar and blackmailing the vehicle owners.

 

'Nationwide Vision'

 

 

"I'm terrified that someone could get hurt because of this data," says Mike Griffin, a Baltimore auto repossession agent who uses his own fleet of camera-equipped cars to collect about a million plates a month.

Mr. Griffin says he takes extensive security measures with the data, which he contributes to a private national database.

These private databases, each containing hundreds of millions of plates, could become the largest collection of people's movements within the U.S., says Mary Ellen Callahan, former chief privacy officer for the Department of Homeland Security. "You could have a nationwide vision of where I was at a given time," says Ms. Callahan, who now runs the privacy practice at law firm Jenner & Block.

Law-enforcement officers say they use the technology to track down stolen cars, collect unpaid tickets and identify the vehicles of suspected criminals.

The two private plate-tracking companies identified by the Journal both say they act responsibly and are within their rights to collect the data. Scott A. Jackson, founder of MVConnect LLC, the parent company of one of the two firms, says he won't sell the data to the public or to marketers.

He says the plate trackers are simply shooting video in public, something that is perfectly legal. "I take absolute exception to any government telling me that I can't go into public and take video," Mr. Jackson says. "That's taking my freedoms away." He estimates his company has snapped "hundreds of millions" of photos of plates nationwide.

License-plate readers spread in the late 1960s, when film cameras were installed at some intersections to identify red-light runners. Since then, the cameras, software and computer storage have improved, and prices have fallen. This makes storing and working with large license-plate photo databases affordable and realistic.

The price of one gigabyte of storage fell to $1.68 this year from $18.95 in 2005, a decline of 91%, according to market-research firm IDC. It is expected to cost just pennies in a few years. Similarly, digital cameras and the software that can "read" letters and numbers from photos are improving dramatically.

Italian defense contractor Finmeccanica SpA introduced plate-recognition cameras to the U.S. in 2004 via its subsidiary, Elsag North America. The technology originally was used to sort mail by reading addresses. Today, a standard two-camera system mounted on a police car costs $15,000, down from $25,000 originally, says Mark Windover, Elsag's chief executive.

Rapid Adoption

Cynthia Lum, a professor at George Mason University, did a study in 2010 estimating that about 37% of large police departments were using plate readers. "It's one of the most rapidly diffusing technologies that I've ever seen," says Ms. Lum, a former police officer and deputy director of the Center for Evidence-Based Crime Policy.

 

A few states have guidelines for using the scanners. New Hampshire bans them. Maine requires data to be purged after 21 days unless it is part of an investigation. New Jersey requires officers to have "specific and articulable facts" of "possible criminal or terrorist activity" before looking up a car owner.

Some towns have turned down the systems. "It went beyond my sense of what we needed to do to make us safer," says Neil Fulton, the town manager of Norwich, Vt., pop. 3,414, which rejected a grant for a plate reader in April.

But many departments embrace the technology. The sheriff's department in Riverside County, Calif., which is home to about 2.2 million people, has been using automated plate readers since 2007. According to Riverside County Sheriff's Department Sgt. Lisa McConnell, "The database is available to any of our officers in the furtherance of their professional duties." The department intends to keep the records indefinitely, she says.

The Journal obtained the database (minus each car's location) through a public records act request. The tracking system isn't perfect. "It picks up any words on a reflective background," says Gary Schreiner, a technician at the sheriff's department.

As a result, some common road signs show up in the database. "ONEWAY" appears 13,873 times. In addition, some of the most-tracked plates were other government vehicles, which are identifiable by their special tags in California.

Some Riverside County residents voiced surprise that their plates are being captured. "Not knowing about it makes me feel a little uneasy," says Virginia Rose, an 86-year-old resident of Idyllwild. Her plate appears in the database four times.

Still, she said she figured it was helpful for the police. "Usually I go along with whatever police enforcement needs to do to keep us safe, so I figure they must have people stealing cars and that sort of thing," she says.

Officers can also tap private license-plate location databases such as the two being built by former repossession agents, Digital Recognition Network Inc. of Fort Worth, Texas, and MVTrac of Palatine, Ill., a unit of MVConnect.

MVTrac's Mr. Jackson, spent more than 20 years in the repossession business, says that at first he saw plate readers simply as a way to help find cars he was trying to repossess. Then he realized the opportunity to build a national network.

He began installing cameras on the vehicles of other auto-recovery agents, who pay subscription fees to use the cameras. MVTrac says hundreds of its systems are operating nationwide. The camera systems give drivers an instant alert when they scan a car wanted for repossession. The alert doesn't include the owner's identity. Agents also get a commission when a finance company buys data about a plate they scanned.

 

'Night Spotters'

One of MVTrac's biggest customers is Mr. Griffin in Baltimore, whose company, Final Notice & Recovery LLC, has plate-recognition systems on 10 vehicles. Mr. Griffin employs drivers working two shifts, day and night, driving each car 300 to 400 miles a day, scanning plates in the Baltimore and Washington, D.C., areas.

A retired Baltimore police officer, Patrick Wilson, leads Final Notice's team of "night spotters," who drive after dark, scanning plates. Their black vehicles have tinted windows and hood-mounted cameras. They canvas alleys, parking lots and apartment complexes to scan as many vehicles as possible.

When the night spotters find a car wanted for repossession, they call in a tow truck. They can now repossess about 15 cars a night, Mr. Wilson says, up from about six per night before using the technology.

 

 

Missing Persons

Final Notice has amassed a database of 19 million historical locations of vehicles in and around Maryland and Washington. Mr. Griffin provides police free access to location information about vehicles in stolen-car or missing-person cases, among others, he says.

Soon he hopes to start selling access to his plate data to bail bondsmen, process servers, private investigators and insurers. "In the next five years, I hope my primary business will be data gathering," he says.

The plates scanned by people such as Mr. Griffin are contributed to Mr. Jackson's central MVTrac database. Mr. Jackson declined to be specific about the total number of scans in the database, but says, "We have [photographs of] a large majority" of registered vehicles in the U.S.

Until recently, rival company Vigilant Solutions, a subsidiary of Digital Recognition Network, provided a counter on its website tallying its plate-scanning database. The latest read: about 700 million scans.

DRN says on its website that it can "combine automotive data such as where millions of people drive their cars…with household income and other valuable information" so companies can "pinpoint consumers more effectively." DRN declined to comment.

Mr. Jackson says he hasn't decided what to do with his database but will be guided by the 1994 federal law governing access to drivers' personal data. "We're not going to allow somebody to access the data to track a girlfriend, track a wife," he says.

Instead, he says he is more likely to use it to help officers track down fugitives, execute warrants and collect parking tickets. He says he is in no rush to sell the data. "Every day it just gets more valuable because we collect more information."

 

Battle Over a Bill

This year California State Sen. Joe Simitian introduced legislation to limit retention of automatic plate-recognition records by private contractors to 60 days and require officers to have a warrant to access the data.

Sen. Simitian argued the police should have probable cause to get information about the location of people's cars. "Should a cop who thinks you're cute have access to your daily movements for the past 10 years without your knowledge or consent?" he says. "I think the answer to that question should be 'no.'"

Private companies and law-enforcement agencies vehemently opposed the bill, saying it would create an "overwhelming burden" on police departments and would cut into revenue from unpaid parking tickets. Mr. Simitian eventually abandoned his legislation.

The tracking of innocent people's license plates bothers people like Mr. Katz-Lacabe, a computer security consultant in San Leandro. He heard about the technology at a city council meeting there.

In 2010, Mr. Katz-Lacabe filed a California Public Records Act request for his data from the local police. He received a report containing 112 images of his vehicles dating to 2008. The file contained 107 photos of his Tercel and five of his Toyota Prius, which he says is driven less frequently.

 

"I was surprised there were some pictures where I could actually identify people," Mr. Katz-Lacabe says, looking at the images. "Here's one where I'm driving. Here's me in my Cal shirt."

San Leandro, with a population of about 85,000, had one Federal Signal license-plate reader installed on a police car in 2008 and installed a newer, better one this year, says Police Chief Sandra Spagnoli. She says the technology has helped locate hundreds of stolen cars and solve other crimes.

Recently, she says, a homicide suspect from Las Vegas drove through town—and the scanner spotted his plate. "He took us on a pursuit, and we caught him," she says. "We would not have been able to do that without that system."

Her department plans to retain the data indefinitely, Ms. Spagnoli says. "It's irresponsible if you have something that could solve a crime in the future, and you've dumped it."

[High Exposure 5,664]

Just as an FYI:

 

The plate scanner I am familiar with does not run plates against the DMV computer in real time. When you turn it on it downloads lists from the state. These are lists of license plate on cars that are stolen, unregistered, suspended, or owned by wanted persons. When it captures a plate image it compares the plate read by the camera to the lists stored on the computer hard drive. If there is a match, it says so and it also tells you why it hit on that particular plate. If there is no hit then nothing happens. The plate reader itself never gives me information about the owner of any vehicle. All hits have to then be run in the DMV computer at HQ via radio to make sure they are valid hits. Summons' do not have to be issued and the Officer's are encouraged to use their discretion as they see fit.

 

When you power down the system at the end of the tour, the lists are purged from the memory of the computer until the system is powered on and new lists are downloaded.

[halbautomatisch 60]

Another reason to move to NH.

 

I wish I still had the old blue license plates.

[TanJovi 5]

Stuff like TrapWire disturbs me more.

[Candide 0]

Cmon now guys, it's for our own good. Besides, since when have the govt or the police ever misused anything...

[greatgunstatenj 32]

last week 1015 was discussing autonomous vehicles and I was shocked at how many people are willing to turn the control of their vehicles over to a centralalized system (most likely controlled by the government). nevermind software bugs, hackers and malicious insiders... just the fact that the government could disable my vehicle is enough for me to say no way.

 

the relevance?? when I look at all these things from the 25k foot view; trapwire, plate scanners, RF tracking, domestic drones, NDAA, Patriot Act... this country seems to be on the precipice of becoming the type of place we read about in books and saw in movies; 1984, minority report, brave new world, etc. we may just be witnessing the rebirth of widescale slavery in the U.S.

[A-Tech 8]

High Exposure, I got pulled over a few months back after I forgot to renew my registration. I was about a week overdue. When I drove by the officer he immediately pulled out without hesitation and turned on the lights. I thought it was strange because it was like he already knew I was coming and unregistered. Are overdue registration vehicles on that list?

[leahcim 680]

Just as an FYI:

 

The plate scanner I am familiar with does not run plates against the DMV computer in real time. When you turn it on it downloads lists from the state. These are lists of license plate on cars that are stolen, unregistered, suspended, or owned by wanted persons. When it captures a plate image it compares the plate read by the camera to the lists stored on the computer hard drive. If there is a match, it says so and it also tells you why it hit on that particular plate. If there is no hit then nothing happens. The plate reader itself never gives me information about the owner of any vehicle. All hits have to then be run in the DMV computer at HQ via radio to make sure they are valid hits. Summons' do not have to be issued and the Officer's are encouraged to use their discretion as they see fit.

 

When you power down the system at the end of the tour, the lists are purged from the memory of the computer until the system is powered on and new lists are downloaded.

Yeah, this does not bother me so much--and this is the usage mode I had in mind on the first plate-scanner thread. And it sounds like NJ actually has law in place to restrict use. But other states--such as CA--it is pretty wide open and the data are retained INDEFINITELY. ANd I do not think there is any law preventing a private individual or company from doing this--although I believe there are access restrictions on DMV records, so it would not be easy to correlate to the owner.

[e80hydro 120]

I'm more concerned about those little plastic things we keep on our key chains that the stores scan so we get a discount. They can triangulate your position by your shopping habits.

[Candide 0]

I'm more concerned about those little plastic things we keep on our key chains that the stores scan so we get a discount. They can triangulate your position by your shopping habits.

 

http://techland.time.com/2012/02/17/how-target-knew-a-high-school-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-parents/

[Soju 153]

Yeah, this does not bother me so much--and this is the usage mode I had in mind on the first plate-scanner thread. And it sounds like NJ actually has law in place to restrict use.

 

NJ also has other laws in place to restrict/allow things. What makes you think the state will actually follow them though? If I'm not mistaken, there is at least one law suit against them because they aren't following the laws...and it still hasn't changed much...

[High Exposure 5,664]

Cmon now guys, it's for our own good. Besides, since when have the govt or the police ever misused anything...

 

Probably a little less often than the general public or big business/corporate America misuse things.

 

High Exposure, I got pulled over a few months back after I forgot to renew my registration. I was about a week overdue. When I drove by the officer he immediately pulled out without hesitation and turned on the lights. I thought it was strange because it was like he already knew I was coming and unregistered. Are overdue registration vehicles on that list?

 

Yes they are. Are you sure it was an APR (Automated Plate Reader) equipped vehicle. Officers have the right to run any license plate they see for vehicle information only (Make, Model, Year, Color, Registration status). An Officer can run a plate for owner information (Name, Address, DOB) only if there is reasonable articulable suspicion the a MV infraction or crime has been committed. Your plate could have been randomly run through the MDT (The laptop in the car that is connected to the MVC/DMV computers at the state).

[johnp 45]

I got pulled over a few months ago driving my fathers truck, saw the cop sitting on the side of the road, drove past him doing the speed limit not swerving it was the middle of the afternoon on a local side street. 30 seconds later in my rearview I see the cop FLYING up behind me(very unsafe) pulls me over. Comes up to the window tells me the owner of this cars license has expired, 2 questions

 

1. When a plate is run and something comes up in this instance expired license, does other information come up? Does it just say expired license, or show info about said license?

 

2. Did I fall victim to a bored cop, or an automatic plate reader?

 

This has been in the back of my head for awhile and this thread re-awoken my curiosity.

[leahcim 680]

I'm more concerned about those little plastic things we keep on our key chains that the stores scan so we get a discount. They can triangulate your position by your shopping habits.

Totally voluntary--you do not have to use those to shop. Try opting-out of displaying a license plate and see how far you get. Same thing with your credit cards, it is convenient, but the CC company has all that information on shopping habits and location. Again, it is easy to opt-out--just do not use credit cards--and it is more difficult for law enforcement to access discount club or CC information.

[matty 810]

take teh red pi9ll, Neo

[High Exposure 5,664]

I got pulled over a few months ago driving my fathers truck, saw the cop sitting on the side of the road, drove past him doing the speed limit not swerving it was the middle of the afternoon on a local side street. 30 seconds later in my rearview I see the cop FLYING up behind me(very unsafe) pulls me over. Comes up to the window tells me the owner of this cars license has expired, 2 questions

 

1. When a plate is run and something comes up in this instance expired license, does other information come up? Does it just say expired license, or show info about said license?

 

2. Did I fall victim to a bored cop, or an automatic plate reader?

 

This has been in the back of my head for awhile and this thread re-awoken my curiosity.

 

I didn't pull you over, so take this for what it is worth.

 

1) With the APR I am familiar with, it captures an image of the plate and converts the photo characters to computer text. Then it automatically takes the coverted plate and runs it against all of the downloaded lists. If it matches any of the plates downloaded from the State, the computer shows you a photo of the plate captured, a photo of the vehicle wearing the plate, tells you which of the cameras picked it up (it reads a lot of plates, knowing which camera and having a photo of the car lets you track the car in question) and tells you what list it hit on ie: State Warrant, NCIC Hit, Stolen Vehicle, Stolen Plate, Suspended License or Registration, Expired License or Registration, BOLO/Stop and Hold, Amber Alert, Silver Alert, etc.... It does not give any personal information about the Registered Owner

 

The Officer now has to look at the photo of the plate and compare it to the characters the APR used to run it. The cameras are not perfect, sometime ABC12D on the plate gets translated to 48CI20 by the camera. If the plate photo and the characters jive, then the plate gets run through the State MVC computers to verify its status is correctly reported by the APR.

 

If the MVC computers return a valid hit for a crime or infraction, then the Officer has probable cause to run the plate for registered owner info and conduct a motor vehicle stop to investigate. This all takes time, which now has to be made up by closing the distance and stopping the vehicle in a safe location.

 

As far as flying up behind you, how does one catch up to a vehicle without going faster than it is going? How long does it take to close a 400yd gap only going 5mph faster that the car you are following? As far as your perception of VERY UNSAFE the Officer probably did not have that same perception. Lots of cars that make minor motor vehicle infraction are not stopped every day simply because it's dangerous to try to stop them in the traffic or weather conditions that the infraction is observed. Not too many Cops will risk a lawsuit, Departmental/criminal charges or hurting someone to stop a car for an expired license.

 

2) Part of a Cop's job is checking plates and stopping cars, I doubt he/she was just bored and decided to stop you. That being said, an Officer with an MDT computer and a link to the State MVC can do the same thing the APR does, only slower. He may have run your plate for vehicle info only and the MVC returned a hit for Expired DL on the owner. A traffic stop is made and an investigation occurs - RO wasn't operating, Driver had a valid DL, Registration and Insurance are up to date, Driver doesn't seem impaired, Inspection is good = "Have a nice day sir. I apologize for the inconvenience and please let the owner know his license expired so he can take care of it and not get pulled over in the future. Drive Safely"

 

Hope that helps you.

[e80hydro 120]

Totally voluntary--you do not have to use those to shop. Try opting-out of displaying a license plate and see how far you get. Same thing with your credit cards, it is convenient, but the CC company has all that information on shopping habits and location. Again, it is easy to opt-out--just do not use credit cards--and it is more difficult for law enforcement to access discount club or CC information.

I was joking.

[Candide 0]

Throw some mud or grease on your plates fellas.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Throw some mud or grease on your plates fellas.

 

NJ Title 39 Motor Vehicle Code:

39:3-33 Markers; requirements concerning; display of fictitious or wrong numbers, etc.; punishment

39:3-33. The owner of an automobile which is driven on the public highways of this State shall display not less than 12 inches nor more than 48 inches from the ground in a horizontal position, and in such a way as not to swing, an identification mark or marks to be furnished by the division; provided, that if two marks are issued they shall be displayed on the front and rear of the vehicle; and provided, further, that if only one mark is issued it shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle; and provided, further, that the rear identification mark may be displayed more than 48 inches from the ground on tank trucks, trailers and other commercial vehicles carrying inflammable liquids and on sanitation vehicles which are used to collect, transport and dispose of garbage, solid wastes and refuse. Motorcycles shall also display an identification mark or marks; provided, that if two marks are issued they shall be displayed on the front and rear of the motorcycle; and provided, further, that if only one mark is issued it shall be displayed on the rear of the motorcycle.

 

The identification mark or marks shall contain the number of the registration certificate of the vehicle and shall be of such design and material as prescribed pursuant to section 2 of P.L.1989, c.202 (C.39:3-33.9). All identification marks shall be kept clear and distinct and free from grease, dust or other blurring matter, so as to be plainly visible at all times of the day and night.

 

Just sayin'

 

Don't create a justifiable reason for a lawful traffic stop and pursuant charges because you are trying to avoid a perceived one.

[Candide 0]

Id rather possibly get a ticket for some mud on my plate than be scanned all over the place. I stand by my suggestion.

 

Looks like you are a cop, explains your support for this horseshit.

[High Exposure 5,664]

I never stated my feelings on the system one way or another regarding the APR. I am just trying to explain how it works and show that it isn't black magic. Pulling back the curtain on the Wizard so to speak.

 

You are free to believe it's horseshit and you are free to do as you want in an effort to protect your privacy. I know I feel just as strongly about my 4A rights.

 

Just remember it is big boy rules out there. Don't whine when you get you wrist slapped from your effort to inhibit an infringement on your rights that may or may not exist. Driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, one that can be taken away, or it can cost you a lot of money and effort to keep.

 

Drive safely!

 

Edited to remove a comment that may have been read as argumentative. Apologies.

Edited September 30, 2012 by High Exposure

[TK421 2]

Id rather possibly get a ticket for some mud on my plate than be scanned all over the place. I stand by my suggestion.

 

Looks like you are a cop, explains your support for this horseshit.

 

Hey man, you gotta justify that $100K a year and 30+ years of retirement pay and benefits somehow. Someone's gotta pay the bills. Just saying, too many overpaid people with not enough to do and this is what you get. Stopping real crime is real hard work, harassing average people and honest gun owners is much easier and far more lucrative.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Id rather possibly get a ticket for some mud on my plate than be scanned all over the place. I stand by my suggestion.

 

Looks like you are a cop, explains your support for this horseshit.

 

More info is displayed for a mv stop than a random plate check. So by you getting pulled over you are allowing more info to be divulged. Great logic there.

[Brisco 130]

I never stated my feelings on the system one way or another regarding the APR. I am just trying to explain how it works and show that it isn't black magic. Pulling back the curtain on the Wizard so to speak.

 

You are free to believe it's horseshit and you are free to do as you want in an effort to protect your privacy. I know I feel just as strongly about my 4A rights.

 

Just remember it is big boy rules out there. Don't whine when you get you wrist slapped from your effort to inhibit an infringement on your rights that may or may not exist. Driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, one that can be taken away, or it can cost you a lot of money and effort to keep.

 

Drive safely!

 

Edited to remove a comment that may have been read as argumentative. Apologies.

 

Well, Thanks for taking the time to provide info on how the system works.

 

Personally, I think it should be limited to warrents and stolen vehicles only.

[Handyman 5,682]

Does a parked vehicle have to display a license plate? How about if it is parked on private property?

 

I would be inclined to make a magnetic screen to cover my plate at night just to piss people off...

[jrfly3006 42]

I love these arguments about how getting stopped for expired reg/dl is nothing but bored overpaid cops messing with people for fun..until you get hit by someone with expired or no reg/dl/insurance then its why dont cops enforce the law..people love to have it both ways..and for the finale comes the standard talking point of "I pay your salary and youre overpaid and you guys are the reason for the financial collapse"...

[High Exposure 5,664]

 

 

Well, Thanks for taking the time to provide info on how the system works.

 

Personally, I think it should be limited to warrents and stolen vehicles only.

 

You are most welcome.

 

 

Does a parked vehicle have to display a license plate? How about if it is parked on private property?

 

I would be inclined to make a magnetic screen to cover my plate at night just to piss people off...

Vehicles parked on private property are generally governed by local ordinances, so that depends on the town you live in. State law says that vehicles driven on public or quasi-public (think a parking lot at Foodtown or Wallmart) roads must be properly insured, registered and operated by an Licensed Driver. Private property is still Private property when in comes to vehicle status. There are very few MV statutes that are enforceable on Private Property.

 

The APR will read plates on private property of they are close enough to the roadway. There is a disposition when clearing a hit from the system for "No Cause for Action, Private Property"

 

I love these arguments about how getting stopped for expired reg/dl is nothing but bored overpaid cops messing with people for fun..until you get hit by someone with expired or no reg/dl/insurance then its why dont cops enforce the law..people love to have it both ways..and for the finale comes the standard talking point of "I pay your salary and youre overpaid and you guys are the reason for the financial collapse"...

 

Well said!

[leahcim 680]

I never stated my feelings on the system one way or another regarding the APR. I am just trying to explain how it works and show that it isn't black magic. Pulling back the curtain on the Wizard so to speak.

 

You are free to believe it's horseshit and you are free to do as you want in an effort to protect your privacy. I know I feel just as strongly about my 4A rights.

 

Just remember it is big boy rules out there. Don't whine when you get you wrist slapped from your effort to inhibit an infringement on your rights that may or may not exist. Driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, one that can be taken away, or it can cost you a lot of money and effort to keep.

Thanks for the information and perspective on this sir. As I said, I really do not have a problem with using them to pick up stolen vehicles, expired license/registration, etc. And it sounds like that is pretty much how they are used in NJ--at least that is NJ law, and it sounds like the policy you follow.

 

What really got my attention in the WSJ article is the far more sinister capability to collect and aggregate such data and retain it indefinitely. Some of the people in the story, using CA FOIA statutes, were able to get detailed location records--including pictures of the car and the people--that local LE had collected and retained over a few years. That goes beyond merely policing driving privileges and that is where I run into a 4A concerns.

[halbautomatisch 60]

I didn't pull you over, so take this for what it is worth.

 

1) With the APR I am familiar with, it captures an image of the plate and converts the photo characters to computer text. Then it automatically takes the coverted plate and runs it against all of the downloaded lists. If it matches any of the plates downloaded from the State, the computer shows you a photo of the plate captured, a photo of the vehicle wearing the plate, tells you which of the cameras picked it up (it reads a lot of plates, knowing which camera and having a photo of the car lets you track the car in question) and tells you what list it hit on ie: State Warrant, NCIC Hit, Stolen Vehicle, Stolen Plate, Suspended License or Registration, Expired License or Registration, BOLO/Stop and Hold, Amber Alert, Silver Alert, etc.... It does not give any personal information about the Registered Owner

 

The Officer now has to look at the photo of the plate and compare it to the characters the APR used to run it. The cameras are not perfect, sometime ABC12D on the plate gets translated to 48CI20 by the camera. If the plate photo and the characters jive, then the plate gets run through the State MVC computers to verify its status is correctly reported by the APR.

 

If the MVC computers return a valid hit for a crime or infraction, then the Officer has probable cause to run the plate for registered owner info and conduct a motor vehicle stop to investigate. This all takes time, which now has to be made up by closing the distance and stopping the vehicle in a safe location.

 

As far as flying up behind you, how does one catch up to a vehicle without going faster than it is going? How long does it take to close a 400yd gap only going 5mph faster that the car you are following? As far as your perception of VERY UNSAFE the Officer probably did not have that same perception. Lots of cars that make minor motor vehicle infraction are not stopped every day simply because it's dangerous to try to stop them in the traffic or weather conditions that the infraction is observed. Not too many Cops will risk a lawsuit, Departmental/criminal charges or hurting someone to stop a car for an expired license.

 

2) Part of a Cop's job is checking plates and stopping cars, I doubt he/she was just bored and decided to stop you. That being said, an Officer with an MDT computer and a link to the State MVC can do the same thing the APR does, only slower. He may have run your plate for vehicle info only and the MVC returned a hit for Expired DL on the owner. A traffic stop is made and an investigation occurs - RO wasn't operating, Driver had a valid DL, Registration and Insurance are up to date, Driver doesn't seem impaired, Inspection is good = "Have a nice day sir. I apologize for the inconvenience and please let the owner know his license expired so he can take care of it and not get pulled over in the future. Drive Safely"

 

Hope that helps you.

I've often thought about this when I see cops sitting on the shoulder (rather than pulling off the road onto a grass median, parking lot or similar) of a major state or US route checking radar or for seatbelts, talking on the phone, inspection, etc. Doesn't anyone in the PD see that as potential lawsuit? I could see a scenario where someone gets cut off and swerves to avoid someone and ends up crashing into this patrol car. Their lawyer would then sue the PD and the officer for causing a hazard by sitting on the shoulder, after all, the reason broken down vehicles get towed away fairly soon is because it is a hazard to leave them there.

[223lover 9]

+1 for restraint of High Exposure. just sayin.