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Carrying Concealed Without a Permit-What Happens?

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I AM NOT GOING TO DO THIS!!!

 

I DO NOT ADVISE ANYONE DO THIS!!!

 

THIS IS STRICTLY HYPOTHETICAL!!!

 

With that out of the way now, what would happen if someone was found carrying concealed without a CCW permit? I mean a normal, rational, mostly law abiding citizen? What are the penalties both potential and real?

 

Please understand I am in no way contemplating this. There is a lot of good info on here as regards many parts of NJ Gun Law and I am hoping to clarify in my mind what the consequences are. Nothing more than mental masturbation on my part.

 

Thanks all.

 

C

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Sooooooooooooooo...

 

No hard facts on this? Bubba's date isn't quite what I'm looking for. What are the penalties? I know if I am a career criminal most likely nothing would happen or it would be rolled into other charges, but if it's a lawful kinda person, what then??

 

C

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Sooooooooooooooo...

 

No hard facts on this? Bubba's date isn't quite what I'm looking for. What are the penalties? I know if I am a career criminal most likely nothing would happen or it would be rolled into other charges, but if it's a lawful kinda person, what then??

 

C

 

Unlawful possession of a handgun is a 2nd degree crime. And its a gun so it invokes the Graves act, stiffening penalties. 7-14 years prison IIRC.

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Unlawful possession of a handgun is a 2nd degree crime. And its a gun so it invokes the Graves act, stiffening penalties. 7-14 years prison IIRC.
You're telling me that every skell they charge with possession goes away for 7-14. I refuse to believe it. Charges will be knocked down first offense....because you'd plea out.

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Sooooooooooooooo...

 

No hard facts on this? Bubba's date isn't quite what I'm looking for. What are the penalties? I know if I am a career criminal most likely nothing would happen or it would be rolled into other charges, but if it's a lawful kinda person, what then??

 

C

 

You have been given plenty of hard facts here. Charges, possible sentences but NJ law is based on case law and ever evolving so changes are made based on circumstances

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2C:43-6 Sentence of imprisonment for crime; ordinary terms; mandatory terms.

 

c. A person who has been convicted under subsection b. or d. of N.J.S.2C:39-3, subsection a. of N.J.S.2C:39-4, subsection a. of section 1 of P.L.1998, c.26 (C.2C:39-4.1), subsection a., b. or c. of N.J.S.2C:39-5, subsection a. or paragraph (2) or (3) of subsection b. of section 6 of P.L.1979, c.179 (C.2C:39-7), or subsection a., b., e. or g. of N.J.S.2C:39-9, or of a crime under any of the following sections: 2C:11-3, 2C:11-4, 2C:12-1b., 2C:13-1, 2C:14-2a., 2C:14-3a., 2C:15-1, 2C:18-2, 2C:29-5, who, while in the course of committing or attempting to commit the crime, including the immediate flight therefrom, used or was in possession of a firearm as defined in 2C:39-1f., shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment by the court. The term of imprisonment shall include the imposition of a minimum term. The minimum term shall be fixed at, or between, one-third and one-half of the sentence imposed by the court or three years, whichever is greater, or 18 months in the case of a fourth degree crime, during which the defendant shall be ineligible for parole.

 

The minimum terms established by this section shall not prevent the court from imposing presumptive terms of imprisonment pursuant to 2C:44-1f. (1) except in cases of crimes of the fourth degree.

 

Translation: Minimum of three, maximimum of ten, presumption of seven years in State's Prison.

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2nd degree crime carrying 5-10 years and up to $150K in fines. Basically it is up the the judge. If you have no prior record, and you were just walking around minding your own business and not hurting anyone, have a good presentance report (family guy, good finances, upstanding citizen, just made a stupid choice one day, etc), and the investigating officer makes good comments on your behalf, most likely the judge would go easy. Remember "going easy" might be 3 years in prison instead of the full 10, etc.

 

Or it can go the other way and the judge would like to make an example out of the person and go nuts with 10 years and $100K fines. You never know what you would get. In all situations one would most likely end up of being branded an ex-felon.

 

Look at some of the cases in NYC with tourists being nabbed by the PD either by forgetting they had the gun, or just plain ignorance of the laws. Some of them get off with disorderly conduct misdemeanor type stuff. Again no guarantees, and it is really a throwing the dice with your life.

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Get arrested for unlawful possession and possibly possession for unlawful purpose. If it's loaded with hollowpoints add another charge.

 

Hollowpoints aren't illegal in NJ. Are they specified as illegal in a CCW gun?

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Translation: Minimum of three, maximimum of ten, presumption of seven years in State's Prison.

 

That's if the unlawful possession occurred during other criminal activity involving the statutes listed. I think the OP was more curious on just having a concealed gun walking down the street not breaking any other laws.

 

 

who, while in the course of committing or attempting to commit the crime, including the immediate flight therefrom, used or was in possession of a firearm as defined

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Hollowpoints aren't illegal in NJ.  Are they specified as illegal in a CCW gun?

 

From a practical standpoint, hollowpoints are as un-illegal as handguns. Buy them at the store, take home, to and from range. Otherwise, go to jail. Real jail. No handgun required, just a hollowpoint in your pocket.

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From a practical standpoint, hollowpoints are as un-illegal as handguns. Buy them at the store, take home, to and from range. Otherwise, go to jail. Real jail. No handgun required, just a hollowpoint in your pocket.

 

I can keep them in my gun and shoot somebody with them, right? Just like I can keep my gun in my home and shoot somebody with it, right? (let's not get into the whole "required to flee" discussion, I'm just talking hardware.)

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That's if the unlawful possession occurred during other criminal activity involving the statutes listed. I think the OP was more curious on just having a concealed gun walking down the street not breaking any other laws.

 

Where do you get that from?

 

subsection a., b. or c. of N.J.S.2C:39-5,[/u] subsection a. or paragraph (2) or (3) of subsection b. of section 6 of P.L.1979, c.179 (C.2C:39-7), or subsection a., b., e. or g. of N.J.S.2C:39-9, or of a crime under any of the following sections: 2C:11-3, 2C:11-4, 2C:12-1b., 2C:13-1, 2C:14-2a., 2C:14-3a., 2C:15-1, 2C:18-2, 2C:29-5, who, while in the course of committing or attempting to commit the crime, including the immediate flight therefrom, used or was in possession of a firearm as defined in 2C:39-1f., shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment by the court. The term of imprisonment shall include the imposition of a minimum term. The minimum term shall be fixed at, or between, one-third and one-half of the sentence imposed by the court or three years, whichever is greater, or 18 months in the case of a fourth degree crime, during which the defendant shall be ineligible for parole.

 

39-5 is the unlawful possession of weapons statute, if you are convicted of violating 2C:39-5 b you obviously had a firearm in your possession while you committed the crime. That qualifier is there to invoke the Graves Act when 2C:11-3/4 (Murder/Manslaughter), 12-1b (assault), 13-1 (kidnapping), 14-2/3 (sexual assault), 15-1 (robbery), 18-2 (burglary), or 29-5 (prisoner escape) are committed with a gun.

 

I can keep them in my gun and shoot somebody with them, right? Just like I can keep my gun in my home and shoot somebody with it, right? (let's not get into the whole "required to flee" discussion, I'm just talking hardware.)

 

 

 

Perfectly legal to shoot at the range and in self defense, but technically a 3rd degree crime if you drop a single .22lr hollowpoint out of the 525 packs in your pocket.

 

Obviously, not legal advice.

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I AM NOT GOING TO DO THIS!!!

 

I DO NOT ADVISE ANYONE DO THIS!!!

 

THIS IS STRICTLY HYPOTHETICAL!!!

 

With that out of the way now, what would happen if someone was found carrying concealed without a CCW permit? I mean a normal, rational, mostly law abiding citizen? What are the penalties both potential and real?

 

Please understand I am in no way contemplating this. There is a lot of good info on here as regards many parts of NJ Gun Law and I am hoping to clarify in my mind what the consequences are. Nothing more than mental masturbation on my part.

 

Thanks all.

 

C

 

Ask Brian Aitkin.

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Where do you get that from?

 

 

 

39-5 is the unlawful possession of weapons statute, if you are convicted of violating 2C:39-5 b you obviously had a firearm in your possession while you committed the crime. That qualifier is there to invoke the Graves Act when 2C:11-3/4 (Murder/Manslaughter), 12-1b (assault), 13-1 (kidnapping), 14-2/3 (sexual assault), 15-1 (robbery), 18-2 (burglary), or 29-5 (prisoner escape) are committed with a gun.

 

 

 

 

 

Perfectly legal to shoot at the range and in self defense, but technically a 3rd degree crime if you drop a single .22lr hollowpoint out of the 525 packs in your pocket.

 

Obviously, not legal advice.

 

Thanks for that.

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Here in Kentucky carrying concealed without a permit can be a year in the slammer. (But if you have a permit, but forgot to have it on you, then it is only a $25 fine like a parking ticket. )

 

 

http://www.lrc.ky.go.../527-00/020.PDF

 

Carrying a concealed weapon is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the defendant has been previously convicted of a felony in which a deadly weapon was possessed, used, or displayed, in which case it is a Class D felony.

 

 

http://www.wrilawfir..._Attorneys.html

 

Class A Misdemeanors are the most serious misdemeanor in Kentucky....

 

Penalties:

Up to $500 fine (KRS 534.040(2)(a))

Up to 12 months imprisonment (KRS 532.090)

 

 

'Class A' misdemeanor is a step below a Class D Felony here.

Also until recently, it was even against the law to carry concealed on your own property in KY without a permit.; They finally changed it like last year or so.

 

..

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Hollowpoints aren't illegal in NJ. Are they specified as illegal in a CCW gun?

 

Hollowpoints are illegal, unless you are law enforcement or you are subject to the exceptions in 2C:39-3g or "engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6".

 

 

2C:39-3. Prohibited weapons and devices

f.Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or (2) any person, other than a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) and has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who knowingly has in his possession any body armor breaching or penetrating ammunition, which means: (a) ammunition primarily designed for use in a handgun, and (b) which is comprised of a bullet whose core or jacket, if the jacket is thicker than.025 of an inch, is made of tungsten carbide, or hard bronze, or other material which is harder than a rating of 72 or greater on the Rockwell B. Hardness Scale, and © is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. For purposes of this section, a collector may possess not more than three examples of each distinctive variation of the ammunition described above. A distinctive variation includes a different head stamp, composition, design, or color.

 

2C:39-3g.Exceptions. (1) Nothing in subsection a., b., c., d., e., f., j. or k. of this section shall apply to any member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard, or except as otherwise provided, to any law enforcement officer while actually on duty or traveling to or from an authorized place of duty, provided that his possession of the prohibited weapon or device has been duly authorized under the applicable laws, regulations or military or law enforcement orders. Nothing in subsection h. of this section shall apply to any law enforcement officer who is exempted from the provisions of that subsection by the Attorney General. Nothing in this section shall apply to the possession of any weapon or device by a law enforcement officer who has confiscated, seized or otherwise taken possession of said weapon or device as evidence of the commission of a crime or because he believed it to be possessed illegally by the person from whom it was taken, provided that said law enforcement officer promptly notifies his superiors of his possession of such prohibited weapon or device.

 

(2) a. Nothing in subsection f. (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land, nor shall subsection f. (1) be construed to prevent any licensed retail or wholesale firearms dealer from possessing such ammunition at its licensed premises, provided that the seller of any such ammunition shall maintain a record of the name, age and place of residence of any purchaser who is not a licensed dealer, together with the date of sale and quantity of ammunition sold.

 

b.Nothing in subsection f.(1) shall be construed to prevent a designated employee or designated licensed agent for a nuclear power plant under the license of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission from possessing hollow nose ammunition while in the actual performance of his official duties, if the federal licensee certifies that the designated employee or designated licensed agent is assigned to perform site protection, guard, armed response or armed escort duties and is appropriately trained and qualified, as prescribed by federal regulation, to perform those duties.

 

(3)Nothing in paragraph (2) of subsection f. or in subsection j. shall be construed to prevent any licensed retail or wholesale firearms dealer from possessing that ammunition or large capacity ammunition magazine at its licensed premises for sale or disposition to another licensed dealer, the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard, or to a law enforcement agency, provided that the seller maintains a record of any sale or disposition to a law enforcement agency. The record shall include the name of the purchasing agency, together with written authorization of the chief of police or highest ranking official of the agency, the name and rank of the purchasing law enforcement officer, if applicable, and the date, time and amount of ammunition sold or otherwise disposed. A copy of this record shall be forwarded by the seller to the Superintendent of the Division of State Police within 48 hours of the sale or disposition.

 

(4)Nothing in subsection a. of this section shall be construed to apply to antique cannons as exempted in subsection d. of N.J.S.2C:39-6.

 

(5)Nothing in subsection c. of this section shall be construed to apply to any person who is specifically identified in a special deer management permit issued by the Division of Fish and Wildlife to utilize a firearm silencer as part of an alternative deer control method implemented in accordance with a special deer management permit issued pursuant to section 4 of P.L.2000, c.46 (C.23:4-42.6), while the person is in the actual performance of the permitted alternative deer control method and while going to and from the place where the permitted alternative deer control method is being utilized. This exception shall not, however, otherwise apply to any person to authorize the purchase or possession of a firearm silencer.

 

2C:39-3 f.Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

(1)A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

(2)A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing license;

(3)A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

(a)Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided the person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license; or

(b)Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder; or

©In the case of a firearm, directly to or from any exhibition or display of firearms which is sponsored by any law enforcement agency, any rifle or pistol club, or any firearms collectors club, for the purpose of displaying the firearms to the public or to the members of the organization or club, provided, however, that not less than 30 days prior to the exhibition or display, notice of the exhibition or display shall be given to the Superintendent of the State Police by the sponsoring organization or club, and the sponsor has complied with such reasonable safety regulations as the superintendent may promulgate. Any firearms transported pursuant to this section shall be transported in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

(4)A person from keeping or carrying about a private or commercial aircraft or any boat, or from transporting to or from such vessel for the purpose of installation or repair a visual distress signaling device approved by the United States Coast Guard.

 

These are the only exceptions. For example, there is no exception for transporting hollowpoints from one residence to another.

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Posted Yesterday, 10:33 PM

snapback.pngDan, on 08 November 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

 

That's if the unlawful possession occurred during other criminal activity involving the statutes listed. I think the OP was more curious on just having a concealed gun walking down the street not breaking any other laws.

 

Where do you get that from?

 

 

Mmm, I re-read the statute, and it does appear that breaking 2C:39-5 qualifies you for the minimum sentencing term in 2C:43-6. Seems 3 years is the mandatory minimum one could get in this case?

 

Pretty silly since as you pointed out to break 2C:39-5 subsection a,b, or c, you would have to have already unlawfully posses the weapon.

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The exemption doesn't say you can shoot someone with it. It just says you can possess in your home at at the store or range. If you did the prosecutor will have a field day with you.

 

I can keep them in my gun and shoot somebody with them, right? Just like I can keep my gun in my home and shoot somebody with it, right? (let's not get into the whole "required to flee" discussion, I'm just talking hardware.)

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