Dan 177 Posted November 12, 2012 Right now I have a "chonda" ETQ 3500 watt 7HP genny that has served me very well the past two storms. I've been doing the extension cord ballet with keeping fridges going, TV/internet, and lighting. I've decided to upgrade in a few regards. I have purchased the panel interlock kit, and will be backfeeding my panel (the correct way up to code with the kit) and using breakers to shut off high drain circuits that arent necessary in emergencies. I will be upgrading my generator to a 5000-6500 watt model with a 240v30A twistlock to feed my panel interlock piggyback breaker. My current generator only has 4 120V outlets so I can't use it for this. I will also be having a natural gas valve at my meters installed outside. I will be putting a locking mechanism with a padlock on this. I will like to use this as an option to power my future new generator. My main question is around generator brands. Besides Yamaha and Honda, it appears that the majority of the brands seem to be re-badged "chonda" chinese type clones just like my current ETQ. The kicker is it seems the prices tend to swing all over the place. I don't want to overpay for a Generac if it is just a re-branded Champion or Power Sportsman from the same Chinese supplier. I'd like to know if there are other brands out there like Yamaha and Honda, that are reputable, good quality, and approach the Yamaha and Honda quality , yet at a lower price point. I was looking at Robin/Subaru as an option. I'd like to get a tri-fuel to start with, or I will just use a US Carb kit to convert whatever generator I decide to go with. Voltage stability is a big factor for me as I want to avoid shortening the life of electronics that I am supplying (furnace, fridge, computers, tv, etc), yet I am not very inclined to pay big $$ for inverter models if I can avoid it via compromise. I appreciate any feedback! Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notmetoo 41 Posted November 12, 2012 I'm looking for the same spec. generator. I understand Briggs & Strattons have a good reputation, plus they are made here in the U.S. As for tri-fuel, my research has led me to the U.S. Carb kits, rather than trying to get a gennie that does this out of the box (those seem to be Chinese, of poor quality, over-priced or all three). I'm interested in seeing what other people have to say... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve_G 51 Posted November 12, 2012 It is a tough decision. Do you try to save a few bucks by not getting an inverter generator and possibly damaging your electronics or just get the inverter and not worry about it. I'd hate to have to replace tv's and appliances because of a genny. In the long run it may be cheaper to get the better generator. You can get the Yamahas set up for tri fuel with full Yamaha warranty. They have regular and inverter models. I'm seriously considering the 6300 inverter model. http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-gas-generators.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamesbod 0 Posted November 12, 2012 google the requirements for starting certain appliances. don't quote me cause I may be wrong but I read online that it takes AT LEAST 3500w to start sump pumps & well pumps. 1200-2500w to start ONE furnance that's my overall concern for choosing either a 5000w or a 6500w btw, most affordable brands are mostly sold out now but if you want to wait then wait.. good luck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CageFighter 236 Posted November 12, 2012 Go Generac 7500E, over 1 month b/o from HD, $999! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SW9racer 262 Posted November 12, 2012 I also have an ETQ that has run well over last and this year's storms, I have the 7200watt version. No problems running the heat, 2 fridges, well pump, and microwave all at the same time. Was thinking of a better unit, but power loss and storms like Sandy are extremely rare in my area. This genny does have the electronics stabilizer, but as you say ymmv. It does run at 62-63hz, but it is steady. The microwave clock runs a bit fast. Any idea where the adjustment would be to change this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,777 Posted November 12, 2012 Husky/Subaru brand here. 5,000 running Watts. I'm running 2 sumps, well pump, gas-fired heater, half my kitchen and half my living room. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sigman 41 Posted November 12, 2012 It is a tough decision. Do you try to save a few bucks by not getting an inverter generator and possibly damaging your electronics or just get the inverter and not worry about it. I'd hate to have to replace tv's and appliances because of a genny. In the long run it may be cheaper to get the better generator. You can get the Yamahas set up for tri fuel with full Yamaha warranty. They have regular and inverter models. I'm seriously considering the 6300 inverter model. http://www.yamaha-pr...generators.com/ I'm curious. Has anyone damaged any of their electronic equipment or appliances in their house with a regular generator? I've been using a chinese Champion for a couple of years running TV's, routers, cable modems, etc with no problem. I'm just asking because I heard it can happen, but have not talked with anyone where it did happen. Could inverter models be more of marketing hype? http://en.allexperts...on-inverter.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danno 127 Posted November 12, 2012 Go Generac 7500E, over 1 month b/o from HD, $999! +1 Bought mine from Costco last year. I had it hard wired into my panel. Ran like a champ for 81 hours the past 2 weeks. I powered my whole house with it, 2TVs, fridge, furnace, water heater, 2 computers. Next step is to get the tri fuel kit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TJM 4 Posted November 12, 2012 I'm curious. Has anyone damaged any of their electronic equipment or appliances in their house with a regular generator? I've been using a chinese Champion for a couple of years running TV's, routers, cable modems, etc with no problem. I'm just asking because I heard it can happen, but have not talked with anyone where it did happen. Could inverter models be more of marketing hype? http://en.allexperts...on-inverter.htm I ended up with a Honda EG4000, can do most of the house. In process of getting an extension cord installed after doing the same extension cord ballet you reference. One thing with the Honda I appreciated during this storm, compared to some friends and neighbors, for the hours I used it - about 12hrs/day for 4 days, my gas consumption was noticeably less than theirs. We kept our load modest, but had frig/ sump/ hot water/ some lights running all the time. I too would like to know if others have had issues with electronics. I've spoken with 2 electricians who gave quotes to install our transfer switch - one told me he uses Briggs and Stratton genny and has never had a problem running laptop, iphone, etc. The other told me to NEVER do it, and only 'band-aid' solution was to plug into a UPS and the UPS would clean the power - although mentioned that some UPS wouldn't take a charge from a genny. I tried it this weekend with our UPS when I changed genny oil, etc- just started beeping non-stop and wouldn't take the electric from the genny.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tactical Turtle 11 Posted November 12, 2012 You shouldn't use the generator to charge your phone or run your flat screen tv and laptop. The power is "dirty" and not as consistent as what you get from your power lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruger9 0 Posted November 12, 2012 And what exactly does this "dirty" power do to electronics, supposedly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tactical Turtle 11 Posted November 12, 2012 I was told by Generac not to do so due to the inconsistent spikes in power and just that the power is dirty. Im guessing the spikes can be like a power surge. Dirty power idk... just what I was told. They also told me that if I choose to run my tv use a surge protector. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted November 12, 2012 And what exactly does this "dirty" power do to electronics, supposedly? It's the hz and voltage. Generators aren't perfect at keeping those two things constant. A deviation (say 106 volts when it needs 110, or 58 hz when it needs 60) could burn out your computer or TV Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tactical Turtle 11 Posted November 12, 2012 It's the hz and voltage. Generators aren't perfect at keeping those two things constant. A deviation (say 106 volts when it needs 110, or 58 hz when it needs 60) could burn out your computer or TV Go ray ray Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrfly3006 42 Posted November 12, 2012 FWIW Some of the hondas come with a Digital voltage regulator built in...dont know how effective it is but it probably helps with sensitive electronics Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted November 12, 2012 FWIW Some of the hondas come with a Digital voltage regulator built in...dont know how effective it is but it probably helps with sensitive electronics It's one of the reasons honda charges so much, because their generators are top of the line Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrfly3006 42 Posted November 12, 2012 It's one of the reasons honda charges so much, because their generators are top of the line Agreed..think im gonna wait till the frenzy wears off and go with the Honda...if $ permit of course Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barms 98 Posted November 12, 2012 JAMESBOD: google the requirements for starting certain appliances. don't quote me cause I may be wrong but I read online that it takes AT LEAST 3500w to start sump pumps & well pumps. I have a 1/3 HP Little Giant sump and it starts up fine on my 1,800 watt portable Coleman Powermate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted November 12, 2012 Thanks for the responses guys. Yes , the concern with electronics is that their power supplies will have to work overtime to normalize the power for the sensitive electronics. Everything that uses microprocessors have power supplies that convert the 120v60hz AC input to say 3-18VDC. The dirtier the incoming power, the more that power supply has to work in order to protect and feed the internal circuits. Lots of non-inverter generators now claim that they have AVR, or Automatic Voltage Regulation, and claim they are "electronics safe". They are supposedly capable of adjusting themselves to keep the power output as stable as possible around their internal set point. My ETQ says it has it, but I did notice occasional drops in Hz monitored by a plug in power monitor and a fancy UPS that I had connected to it. All those over and under spec jolts are said to reduce the life of your electronics. I did have a wall wort for a network switch fail while on generator. Could have been a coincidence... This is why I am thinking if I get a good quality non-inverter generator that can pull this off, it will be a good compromise over spending even more big $$$ for the full inverter model. After-all, its not like I'm setting up base camp and going to use my computer equipment for weeks on end running off the generator. In that case, I can see inverter all the way. I'm hoping that a quality AVR type gen will be sufficient in reducing the chance for killing electronics for the few days a year that I would need it. I'm leaning towards a Honda EM5000 with iAVR Says: iAVR (Intelligent Automatic Voltage Regulator) •Provides up to 7000 watts for 10 seconds •Ensures a consistent flow of power regardless of load •Protection for sensitive equipment and reliable power for you To touch an inverter Honda or Yamaha with similar load level with 240V 30A output, would cost over a 1/3 more $$$. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SW9racer 262 Posted November 12, 2012 It's the hz and voltage. Generators aren't perfect at keeping those two things constant. A deviation (say 106 volts when it needs 110, or 58 hz when it needs 60) could burn out your computer or TV Agreed. Except for the fridge/furnace/well/microwave, the few other items were run off a surge strip just in case. The cell phones and laptop run off DC, so the external chargers were at risk for undervolts and the 63hz. Like someone else said, I also am not running a base camp, so I really don't want to spend much for an event that stats show will not happen again for some time. In over 20 years this is the first time for multiple day power outage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zell959 40 Posted November 12, 2012 Like someone else said, I also am not running a base camp, so I really don't want to spend much for an event that stats show will not happen again for some time. In over 20 years this is the first time for multiple day power outage. I'm certainly not going to sit here and suggest anyone should get themselves up to their eyeballs in debt for a top of the line generator, but the stats are changing. Things we use to refer to as "once every 100 years" are happening far more frequently than that. Also, I don't know about you, but a lot of the line fixes I'm seeing in my area seem sort of temporary or rushed, which is an understandable strategy for just getting power back to as many people as possible. That said, I'm inclined to think that even a moderate ice storm is probably going to be a bit more distruptive to the utilities than what I've seen in years past. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
O-gre 7 Posted November 12, 2012 I ran 2 large LCD TV's, a computer, 2 frig's and multiple led lights with a Champion 9000/7000 from costco for 6 days. Nice unit with remote included and Costco warranty. Wasn't too bad on gas either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BullzeyeNJ 104 Posted November 12, 2012 I have a Honda EM5000 w/ IAVR and I still managed to burn out an expensive $500 surge suppressor for my home theatre system and now the refrigerator is not working either. Dont know whats wrong with the fridge but the repair guy will tell me later this week. Its upsetting to me b/c you pay alot more money for the Honda name and reputation hoping your electronics stay safe and things still get damaged. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted November 12, 2012 I own two Generacs(4kw and 14kw) and have never had any trouble with any electronics on either of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted November 12, 2012 I have a Honda EM5000 w/ IAVR and I still managed to burn out an expensive $500 surge suppressor for my home theatre system and now the refrigerator is not working either. Dont know whats wrong with the fridge but the repair guy will tell me later this week. Its upsetting to me b/c you pay alot more money for the Honda name and reputation hoping your electronics stay safe and things still get damaged. This is very disconcerting and has me worrying now. It seems voltage swings aren't the only thing that can cause issues. I see talk of THD frequency swings or instability can also chip away at electronics. Just a question , did at any time you shut off the gen or have it run out of gas before disconnecting your load (appliances, fridge, home theater, etc). This is a big no no and no matter how fancy of a gen you have it can cause damage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rszmit 2 Posted November 12, 2012 It's the hz and voltage. Generators aren't perfect at keeping those two things constant. A deviation (say 106 volts when it needs 110, or 58 hz when it needs 60) could burn out your computer or TV That's why I have my electronics plugged into a Monster HTS 5100 MKII PowerCenter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted November 12, 2012 Just a question , did at any time you shut off the gen or have it run out of gas before disconnecting your load (appliances, fridge, home theater, etc). This is a big no no and no matter how fancy of a gen you have it can cause damage. Let me just pose a question to you...when was the last time the power company gave you notice that the power was about to go out? A follow up question, when power returned, after blipping and brown-outing 5 times, how many devices weren't working? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halbautomatisch 60 Posted November 12, 2012 Right now I have a "chonda" ETQ 3500 watt 7HP genny that has served me very well the past two storms. I've been doing the extension cord ballet with keeping fridges going, TV/internet, and lighting. I've decided to upgrade in a few regards. I have purchased the panel interlock kit, and will be backfeeding my panel (the correct way up to code with the kit) and using breakers to shut off high drain circuits that arent necessary in emergencies. I will be upgrading my generator to a 5000-6500 watt model with a 240v30A twistlock to feed my panel interlock piggyback breaker. My current generator only has 4 120V outlets so I can't use it for this. I will also be having a natural gas valve at my meters installed outside. I will be putting a locking mechanism with a padlock on this. I will like to use this as an option to power my future new generator. My main question is around generator brands. Besides Yamaha and Honda, it appears that the majority of the brands seem to be re-badged "chonda" chinese type clones just like my current ETQ. The kicker is it seems the prices tend to swing all over the place. I don't want to overpay for a Generac if it is just a re-branded Champion or Power Sportsman from the same Chinese supplier. I'd like to know if there are other brands out there like Yamaha and Honda, that are reputable, good quality, and approach the Yamaha and Honda quality , yet at a lower price point. I was looking at Robin/Subaru as an option. I'd like to get a tri-fuel to start with, or I will just use a US Carb kit to convert whatever generator I decide to go with. Voltage stability is a big factor for me as I want to avoid shortening the life of electronics that I am supplying (furnace, fridge, computers, tv, etc), yet I am not very inclined to pay big $$ for inverter models if I can avoid it via compromise. I appreciate any feedback! Thanks! If you're (or anyone else for that matter) interested in a Subaru generator, send me a PM with the model you want and I can get you a price on one, one of my suppliers carries them. I don't normally deal in power equipment, but can order them into my store. They are top quality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
O-gre 7 Posted November 12, 2012 Just a question , did at any time you shut off the gen or have it run out of gas before disconnecting your load (appliances, fridge, home theater, etc). This is a big no no and no matter how fancy of a gen you have it can cause damage. BINGO!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites