H&K SL8-1

[algamear 0]

I recently purchased a H&K SL8-1 from a private seller in WI. I had him ship to a FFL in PA because for the time being thats where I live while I'm at school. The gun arrived there today and I got a call from them telling me they called the state police office and were told its not an NJ compliant firearm. Before purchase I checked all the laws regarding semi-automatic rifles in the state and found it not to be on the banned list nor have any of the features that would label it an "assault weapon." I called my local FFL in NJ and he told me they actually sell the latest model of this firearm (the H&K SL8-6) as a catalog item. The two models are nearly identical with the only real factory differences being the color and the sight rails. From what he told me it was possible they were getting them with modified stocks to make them compliant but I described the stock on mine and he told me that it should be fine because theirs has the same one. For some reason the stock was described to me by my PA FFL as being "telescoping" and therefore making it an illegal gun. Needless to say I am getting conflicting reports from these two FFLs and only one of them is right. For now I am having the gun shipped from PA to NJ because my NJ dealer said he was pretty sure he could do the transfer for me. My question is this: does anyone here know for sure whether this particular make and model is NJ compliant?

[alec.mc 180]

This story is full of " what?! "

 

Are you a NJ resident or PA resident ?

If NJ resident why are you using FFLs in PA? Or vice versa. You need to go through an FFL in the state you have your residence in. I assume you have a NJ FID card.

 

I'm not familiar with that model, but telescoping/adjustable stocks are a no-go in NJ, it would have to be pinned to a fixed location.

 

That being said though, if you are a PA resident/ living in PA, it shouldn't matter. As far as I know adjustable stocks are legal in PA.

[PK90 3,570]

He can acquire it from a PA dealer even if he is a NJ resident.

 

Also, adjustable stocks, i.e. buttplate or cheekpiece, are LEGAL in NJ. The law says collapsible or telescoping stocks are not.

[Tactical Monkey 51]

I've owned an SL8-6 in the past, and both models are legal in NJ. Are you 100% that the rifle you purchased from the private seller was "stock", meaning it had no mods done to it? Some people in an effort to make it resemble a HK G36 will put a folding stock on it, or others will change the stock plate to accept AR15 telescoping stocks.

 

If the one you purchased has a thumb hole stock, and you acquire 10rd magazines for it, it is completely legal in the state of NJ. To "adjust" the stock of a HK SL8-1 requires the insertion of spacers, which requires tools.

[Sixtytwo327 14]

Almost bought one a while ago, and confirmed with an NJ dealer who had one on the shelf. Both the SL8-1 and SL8-6 are NJ legal.

 

Semi-auto. Thumb hole stock (not pistol grip). 10 round Mag. No lug. No muzzle device (SL8 series has target crown) and no muzzle threads. Not banned by name.

 

These models have inserts to change both the recoil pad length and cheek piece height, but the stock does not collapse, fold or telescope.

[Sixtytwo327 14]

Some people in an effort to make it resemble a HK G36 will put a folding stock on it, or others will change the stock plate to accept AR15 telescoping stocks.

 

They're interesting guns in their own right. I tried one and really liked it, but couldn't afford it at the time, and it kind of fell off my list.

 

Still, I cringe when I see people put $3,000 into an $1,800 gun to do a "G36 Conversion," which involves shortening the barrel, chopping pieces out of the receiver, changing the trigger group - which gets you an ugly semi-auto that costs 5 times what an AR does.

[Melgamatic 66]

I had an SL8-6 purchased from Bullet Hole (for too much $$) and then sold to another forum member. It was a nice rifle, but I think it had about the same accuracy as a good AR. So, a good rifle if you love the way it looks and aren't unhappy with the availability and pricing of magazines.

[algamear 0]

Right now I am a NJ resident living at school in PA. I had the firearm sent here because it was easier for me to pick it up and I had done transfers from PA dealers to myself before. One at a gun show near philly a few weeks back and another a few months ago from my local dealer who is actually in Bristol PA. I could have been wrong on that one but the guy at the shop here in Norristown told me he could do it before he saw the weapon. I am absolutely sure my purchase is 100% factory original as I have photos that confirm it. No folding stock or any kind of G36 kit parts. Thanks for the responses guys, it is really helpful.

[algamear 0]

I bought it because I think its one of the coolest looking designs from the factory ever. I think the people that buy one and then want to buy the kits and parts to convert to a G36 are nuts. All I really want to do with it is paint in black with some duracoat and leave it well enough alone. I got it for only 1k including 3 mags that should be NJ legal when I know they usually sell anywhere between $1,300-$1,800.

[halbautomatisch 60]

The SL8-1 came out during the federal AWB years and is NJ compliant in it's original form. I bought one from a PA dealer back then without any issues.

[Scrap 4]

I'm almost positive Cheyenne Mountain Outfitters has one on their shelves, or at least they did... it was there Saturday when I went to buy my Saiga... and some older man wanted an HK AR, (i.e. the MR556A1) and the bamboozlers, when they weren't busy being rude to me as usual, were busy explaining to this poor uninitiated man that this *WAS* that new HK rifle he is describing that everyone is talking about and the Special Forces are using... And look it's even HALF PRICE, it's not $3000 like you said it's like $1499 !!! I just shook my head and kept my mouth shut, aware of the fact I'd be starting a customer service world war if I butted in.

 

Anyway, I looked just now on HK's website, and it says on there "HK SL8-6" ... I don't know what number it was at CMO but it looks exactly right, it is almost definitely what they have right now for sale.

[algamear 0]

Scrap:

 

That is hilarious because that's the place I called for more information on it on Thursday! Great place with a very helpful staff and I'm glad to have them as my local FFL. When I was talking to the salesman over the phone it seemed to me like he had one on the shelf or at least a picture because we were able to match our descriptions up to the individual screws. A stock SL8-1 is no different from a stock SL8-6 except for a few minor features with the scope mounts, paint color, and forend rail mounts so its great to know we were indeed looking at the exact same thing. Now the battle is just getting this FFL in PA to ship it to Cheyenne. I have a feeling I kind of pissed them off and that there going to drag their heels on the paperwork just to fugg me.

[n4p226r 105]

Why not get it at the pa shop or transfer to a forum dealer?

[mipafox 438]

If you own two residences, even if one is a vacation home and you only spend one day a year there, you are a resident of the state that vacation home is in, as far as ATF is concerned, the one day you are there during the year.

 

You could be a resident of all 50 states in a single year as far as ATF is concerned without changing your drivers license, income tax state, or voting registration at all.

 

I don't know how it works if you don't own any of the residences (rentals, etc.)

[algamear 0]

If you own two residences, even if one is a vacation home and you only spend one day a year there, you are a resident of the state that vacation home is in, as far as ATF is concerned, the one day you are there during the year.

 

You could be a resident of all 50 states in a single year as far as ATF is concerned without changing your drivers license, income tax state, or voting registration at all.

 

I don't know how it works if you don't own any of the residences (rentals, etc.)

 

I don't know how they would look at my situation because I still have NJ residency Firearms ID Card and everything, I just live full time at my college in PA. Establishing residency here was one option but it would take a long time because you need to show that you're here for reasons other than education and possibly have a permanent address here.

 

Wsaraceni:

 

The PA shop basically told me they could not do the transfer but my FFL in NJ said they could. After being told by the NJ State Police that based on their description of the firearm in question it was an assault weapon I can kind of understand that. We never actually tried putting through because tbh I never want to do business with them again. I actually got a call back from the police department the other day in response to a message I left them. They explained to me that based on the description of the stock (the guy was not familiar with the model) it was an assault weapon under NJ because the adjustable piece did not lock and was therefore telescoping. The fact is that to adjust the weapon in this way you need a hex wrench so I believe that meets the requirements of "locking." They also told me that it felt to them that I was trying to circumvent the laws by transferring an assault firearm through PA. They could not understand why else I try to do this. I explained to them that I live at a school up here, that I had done transfers from PA FFLs before so I knew it was legal, and that all I was trying to do was make it easier for myself to pick it up. They wished me the best of luck after I said I was having it shipped to an FFL in Jersey.

[mipafox 438]

<p>

I don't know how they would look at my situation because I still have NJ residency Firearms ID Card and everything,

 

Means nothing. You could still by handguns/machineguns/whatever in any state you own a home, while you reside there, even if your legal residence is Jersey. Of course, you have to convince the dealer if you are not doing a private sale, some don't want to deal with it.

 

I just live full time at my college in PA.

 

That's the part I don't know about. I think you might have to own a residence in a state other than your primary residence to buy guns as a resident of the other states.

[algamear 0]

I think part of the concern might be something like someone owning a condo or something like that in a state like Florida but living full time in NJ. Theoretically then you could go down to Florida and buy a totally NJ illegal AR-15 and bring it back with you when you come home. Obviously if the state and the feds found out about that you might have a few problems.

[mipafox 438]

I think part of the concern might be something like someone owning a condo or something like that in a state like Florida but living full time in NJ. Theoretically then you could go down to Florida and buy a totally NJ illegal AR-15 and bring it back with you when you come home. Obviously if the state and the feds found out about that you might have a few problems.

 

There would be no such concern. If you owned a condo in FL, and stayed there overnight once, you could buy a machinegun while there in the eyes of the ATF. You would also have to go back to FL to pick up said machinegun.

 

Nobody cares that you might take something to jersey that is not legal there. When I buy a gun, nobody asks me if I might take it to jersey, DC, or anywhere.

 

Any concern from a dealer would be that a dealer would like to see a driver's license from the state you are in because that makes his job EASY. If he wants to do his job, you could show him an NJ driver's license, your NJ FID (which means nothing), and proof of a residence in FL and he should sell you a silencer, which is illegal in jersey.

 

ATF doesn't give a crap about your NJFID. And they don't care about your driver's license. It's just that a driver's license is one form of easilly verifiable evidence that you are a resident of the state on that particular day.

[algamear 0]

So heres another chapter to this story:

 

I was contacted by this PA FFL the other day. Since he was not going to do the transfer I was trying to get him to send it to Cheyenne Mtn because they told me they could. I got them a copy of their FFL and paid them for shipping. I though everything was finally going to be resolved with this when I check my e-mail and find one from their president. He said because the state police told him it was an illegal firearm he would not consider shipping it to a dealer in the state and that he was going to send it back to the original seller in Wisconsin. He also wanted a statement from me as to why I was trying to do the transfer through PA. I replied back explaining why and that I talked to the state police after he did and that they did not know the specific weapon by name, they were going off of a description in which the adjustable butt plate was described to them as "non-locking" and therefore "telescoping." I had told the agent who returned my call that I was going to have them send it to a Jersey FFL and try the transfer again, his response: "good luck." This did not matter to the PA dealer so now it is on its way back to WI. I am then having the original seller send it to Cheyenne so we can try this again.

[phoenix_iii 0]

Be a prick and sue in small claims court. It's fun.

[Jon 264]

Wow, that's insane. What FFL is this?

[algamear 0]

Treeline Sports in Norristown PA

[algamear 0]

I mean I can't say I blame the guy for everything. He was told by the NJ State Police firearms division that the weapon was illegal. However, I have to believe that was because of a bad description of how the gun works: the butt pad is adjustable for the length of the gun. But you can only do this by removing and replacing two hex screws. I don't know why or how you could possibly think that would constitute a non-locking telescopic stock. I even told the guy about the one Cheyenne has on their shelf and gave them their number to call them and ask them about it. He's trying to make sure he's covered legally but at the end of the day it seems to me that he's a dumb ass who knows little to nothing about guns and just as little about gun laws (although to be fair he is not responsible for being familiar with NJ laws).

[Jon 264]

I mean I can't say I blame the guy for everything. He was told by the NJ State Police firearms division that the weapon was illegal. However, I have to believe that was because of a bad description of how the gun works: the butt pad is adjustable for the length of the gun. But you can only do this by removing and replacing two hex screws. I don't know why or how you could possibly think that would constitute a non-locking telescopic stock. I even told the guy about the one Cheyenne has on their shelf and gave them their number to call them and ask them about it. He's trying to make sure he's covered legally but at the end of the day it seems to me that he's a dumb ass who knows little to nothing about guns and just as little about gun laws (although to be fair he is not responsible for being familiar with NJ laws).

 

He's a PA FFL, all he should worry about is selling a PA-legal rifle. It's on you if you bring an illegal gun back to NJ. To hell with him.

[halbautomatisch 60]

I mean I can't say I blame the guy for everything. He was told by the NJ State Police firearms division that the weapon was illegal. However, I have to believe that was because of a bad description of how the gun works: the butt pad is adjustable for the length of the gun. But you can only do this by removing and replacing two hex screws. I don't know why or how you could possibly think that would constitute a non-locking telescopic stock. I even told the guy about the one Cheyenne has on their shelf and gave them their number to call them and ask them about it. He's trying to make sure he's covered legally but at the end of the day it seems to me that he's a dumb ass who knows little to nothing about guns and just as little about gun laws (although to be fair he is not responsible for being familiar with NJ laws).

I've bought Mosins from him at gun shows, he always struck me as a guy who didn't know much about what he was selling, it was all just inventory to him.

[algamear 0]

I've bought Mosins from him at gun shows, he always struck me as a guy who didn't know much about what he was selling, it was all just inventory to him.

 

That's the exact vibe I got from, doesn't really know a lot about firearms, just selling stuff to make whatever little money you can from buying in bulk. I went into the store first to see it and I was running circles around him in gun knowledge.

 

Update: I talked to Cheyenne's legal gun expert type guy (name was Dave) today just to make double sure about this before I have shipped back to the east coast again. They said he would know definitively 100% whether it is NJ compliant or not. He called the gun a gray area because of how the stock adjusts and wasn't even sure about the legality of the SL8-6 they have on their shelf at the moment. He said he would have to do some checking and would get back to me tomorrow. Obviously this has me a little concerned but I would think they would have done some real research about it before throwing it on the shelf for $2100.

[algamear 0]

Just talked to Cheyenne again and Dave confirmed it was ok. He said he usually proceeds with caution on things like this but to him he was comfortable enough with it. Said it sucks to be at the mercy of people with no common sense sometimes.

[Melgamatic 66]

I talked to Cheyenne's legal gun expert type guy (name was Dave) today just to make double sure about this before I have shipped back to the east coast again. They said he would know definitively 100% whether it is NJ compliant or not. He called the gun a gray area because of how the stock adjusts and wasn't even sure about the legality of the SL8-6 they have on their shelf at the moment.

 

So what this tells us all is that Dave is nowhere near a "legal gun expert type guy" and should just shut up. Because of how the stock adjusts? Yikes.

[algamear 0]

So what this tells us all is that Dave is nowhere near a "legal gun expert type guy" and should just shut up. Because of how the stock adjusts? Yikes.

 

Actually I would argue the complete contrary: I have looked over the wording of the NJ AWB very thoroughly throughout this quagmire. He is very much correct this is a complete gray area in the law and that law was really never written with a case like this in mind because it does not define "telescoping" or "collapsible" in any way. Who exactly took in that SL8-6 they have on their shelf I do not know because it is not an item they could currently order because its not being imported anymore. That means it was probably taken in as a used gun from somewhere or someone. He probably didn't get a chance to see it or did and didn't think twice about it. Obviously to some people this feature is classified as one thing and to other people it is not. I would argue the first group (the ones who called this a "non locking telescoping stock" to the NJ State Police) were total idiots but even I have to admit a case could be made for that definition however weak it may be.

 

I really have to thank Dave and Cheyenne for taking the time to be so thorough with this even though I was not even a customer in their store at the time. I have dealt with Cheyenne before on a couple of other things and they have always had excellent customer service, knowledgeable employees, and people who were willing to take some time to help even when it didn't generate any money for the store. Dave didn't have to do anything for me, he could have been just as horrible as Treeline and been like "yeah I have no idea," but he took the time out of what I know was a busy sales day to be as thorough as possible to answer my questions about this gun.