Varget powder and Sierra 77 gr bullets

[JimmyAGR 54]

Hello All,

 

I loaded up some rounds the other day with new powder. I had been using reloader 15, but heard good things about Varget and Sierra 77's. I loaded up a bunch of charges, from 23 to 24 grs. of powder to test out today. I ran into a problem after the charge reached 23.3 grs, My COAL increased from 2.26 to over 2.276 when the charge got to 24 grs.I heard a slight crunch when loading it but read that that was normal for this charge. The Sierra reloading manual says that 23.9 is max load for Varget. It would not fit in the mags at that length. I was using Winchester brass, and FGMM primers. I also noticed that the powder meters like crap in my Dillon 550. So I am doing more research and heard that TAC also shoots well with this bullet. Does anyone use TAC in a Dillon 550, and if so how does it meter? If anyone loads TAC powder and the sierra bullet, does it fit without compression? The Sierra manual says that 24.0 is max load for TAC.

 

Thanks for any and all help.

 

P.S. Does anyone want to buy some Varget have 4 more pounds unopened?

 

Jimmy

[East Brunswick Sportsman 4]

Hello All,

 

I when the charge got to 24 grs.I heard a slight crunch when loading it but read that that was normal for this charge

 

P.S. Does anyone want to buy some Varget have 4 more pounds unopened?

 

 

Be very careful with this load. Its slightly hot over the Sierra Manual and is compressed which can cause a pressure spike.My pet load for this combination is on the lower end of the range.

 

PM sent about the powder.

 

As far as TAC, check out H335. Its a good powder in 223, and I've had a lot of success wit it.

[JonF 79]

I use varget with 69gr SMK's and i get incredible accuracy from my gun. Due to the limited range i have here, I never tried anything heavier than 69gr but its not uncommon to have to load the real heavy bullets so long that it all becomes a single shot at a time endeavor.

 

Varget also works great with the 168gr bullets i load for the garand so i do put it to good use.

 

unfortunately it does not meter well in my Hornady manual or automatic powder measures. IT crunches hard in the press mounted meter and overthrows on the automatic dispenser unless i turn the speed WAY down and then its fine. serious about getting rid of it?

[JimmyAGR 54]

Thanks Guys,

 

Jon, if EBS doesn't take the powder I will let you know as he responded first. I want to try a spherical powder that meters well in Dillon and won't compress to get to around 2600 - 2700 fps with the 77's. At that point I can figure which load works best in my rifles. TAC and Viht N140 and 540 get to 2600 in mid range loads. Does anyone know if Viht is spherical?

[JonF 79]

Question... are you loading for precision shooting, ie. benchrest paper punching? If so, a press mounted powder dispenser may not give you the overall consistency you want for that. Those heavy SMK's aren't cheap so i just presume you're not just plinking with them. lol

 

Compressed loads arent always bad. My AR shoots 68gr SMK's best with a hot, slightly compressed load of varget but this is known book data and the pressures check out ok. You don't want to be filling them to the case mouths obviously, but a little compression can be ok and can sometimes actually be eliminated with a long drop tube to pack the powder a little better.

 

I dont know about those specific VV powders, they all vary. My own personal experience is with N320 which is coarse like varget (but still small enough to meter perfectly) and 3N37 which is a fine spherical powder which flows like water.

 

I have a copy of QuickLOAD and i can run some numbers for you if you have the weights, charges, OAL's, powders and such ready. Its actually a great tool to have if you're goign to fiddle a lot with load dev, especially if you're getting into some experimentation and/or wildcatting.

[JimmyAGR 54]

Thanks Jon, I am going for sub MOA load for a variety of ARs, all 1 x 7, all quality barrels. I am not shooting benchrest type accuracy. I want to be able to do the progressive load not using a drop tube or trickle powder measure. I had good luck with RL-15 but it still didn't meter to great in the Dillon, better then the Varget but not great. I am chasing the holy grail of SPR type AR ammo, the MK 262. I have never used a program for loading just trial and lots of error . Is Quickload a worthy investment?

 

Jimmy

[Old School 611]

I load both for accuracy and I do also run a progressive press as well. For lighter bullets 50&55gr Varget works well for me but when I load heavy bullets I end up with the compressed load problem.

 

Now Varget just doesn't work for me in a auto-measure and I find in the lighter bullets W748 is as accurate as as Varget. When loading 69gr bullets I'm getting good results with CFE223. The only thing is I'm shooting a 1:9 barrel and to shoot 69gr pills I have to start pushing them pretty hard and I'm starting to see mild pressure signs not bad but I know enough to be careful.

 

I gave my Varget away and am concentrating on ball powders for ease of measuring.

[Old School 611]

This is loaded out of a progressive press but I take a lot of care with my cases. Shot out of a SS DPMS bull barrel that when It was boreoscoped showed some broaching marks so go figure. BTW This was shot w. Armscorp bullets and W748

[Dan 177]

My .223 55gr V-Max load , which I use for my HD load, I use 24.5gr of Varget with very good results. I hand load these, weighing each load with powder scoop and trickler. It is a slightly compressed load and does crunch a little. I couldn't imagine the crunch with 77gr's!

 

I haven't been happy with what I was getting with Varget and .69 SMK's, so I did pick up some CFE, and am going to start playing with that. Varget is a great powder, but give up on trying to use an straight up auto-powder measure with it. Best you can do is to use one set to drop slightly low onto your scale scoop, place on scale, then trickle it to perfection for each load. IMO should be doing this when going for precision anyways.

 

I just haven't had time to shoot in the past few months, and when I do its usually for USPSA. My rifles are getting bored!

[Old School 611]

My .223 55gr V-Max load , which I use for my HD load, I use 24.5gr of Varget with very good results. I hand load these, weighing each load with powder scoop and trickler. It is a slightly compressed load and does crunch a little. I couldn't imagine the crunch with 77gr's!

 

I haven't been happy with what I was getting with Varget and .69 SMK's, so I did pick up some CFE, and am going to start playing with that. Varget is a great powder, but give up on trying to use an straight up auto-powder measure with it. Best you can do is to use one set to drop slightly low onto your scale scoop, place on scale, then trickle it to perfection for each load. IMO should be doing this when going for precision anyways.

 

I just haven't had time to shoot in the past few months, and when I do its usually for USPSA. My rifles are getting bored!

 

PM Sent to Dan

[JimmyAGR 54]

Frank,

 

Yeah that is my thinking now, go with the ball type powders. That is why I want to try TAC and Viht powders. Supposedly ball types work better in the progressive. I will head to Solomon's tomorrow to see which he has in stock. The TAC powder seems to have a higher range of options according to the Sierra reloading manual. How does the CFE223 meter in your press?

[JimmyAGR 54]

This is loaded out of a progressive press but I take a lot of care with my cases. Shot out of a SS DPMS bull barrel that when It was boreoscoped showed some broaching marks so go figure. BTW This was shot w. Armscorp bullets and W748

 

That is some nice shooting.

[Old School 611]

Frank,

 

Yeah that is my thinking now, go with the ball type powders. That is why I want to try TAC and Viht powders. Supposedly ball types work better in the progressive. I will head to Solomon's tomorrow to see which he has in stock. The TAC powder seems to have a higher range of options according to the Sierra reloading manual. How does the CFE223 meter in your press?

 

Meters beautiful, like water. and always within .1 to .05 gr

[JimmyAGR 54]

My .223 55gr V-Max load , which I use for my HD load, I use 24.5gr of Varget with very good results. I hand load these, weighing each load with powder scoop and trickler. It is a slightly compressed load and does crunch a little. I couldn't imagine the crunch with 77gr's!

 

I haven't been happy with what I was getting with Varget and .69 SMK's, so I did pick up some CFE, and am going to start playing with that. Varget is a great powder, but give up on trying to use an straight up auto-powder measure with it. Best you can do is to use one set to drop slightly low onto your scale scoop, place on scale, then trickle it to perfection for each load. IMO should be doing this when going for precision anyways.

 

I just haven't had time to shoot in the past few months, and when I do its usually for USPSA. My rifles are getting bored!

 

Dan didn't mind the crunch so much, but single loading a AR defeats the purpose I am not going for benchrest accuracy, just something sub MOA for a variety of rifles. Let me know when your ready to get those rifle happy again. I haven't seen you in a long time.

[Dan 177]

Yea, I hear you on that Jimmy, I find myself thinking the same thing after blasting through 20 rounds of .223 that took a bunch of time to load. I hover over the order button for .223 plates for my progressive and just call it a day. Pumping out 100 very good loads makes more sense then handloading 50 rounds in the same time period for my AR's. I think I took the first step by getting some CFE as I hear it runs through auto powder measures just fine.

 

Might make sense, as my AR platforms are not "bench-rest precision" enough to warrant the handloading process. I'll save that for the BA .308.

[Heavyopp 167]

I've got Tac and N130 on the bench Here's some pictures:

 

Tac --

 

 

 

N130 --

 

N130 again ---

[JonF 79]

Another drawback of loading the coarse, crunchy powders in the press i found was that the powder measure would crush the case mouths due to the resistance the powder with all the kernels getting cut. The force was so great sometimes that the powder measure would stop rotating before fully dispensing and the thin brass at the case mouth would fold right in against the powder funnel. I couldn't load 223 with varget on the AP even if i wanted to. 30-06 might be different with its thicker brass but haven't tried that yet. The Hornady auto dispenser fills them fast enough anyways, even on slow and using a constricted tickler insert to eliminate overthrows with the big powders.

[rscalzo 3]

I've used only Varget in my AR match loads. My load is 24 grains using the 77 grain bullet loaded to just under magazine length. I've only used LC cases and CCI primers. the load is a tack driver and I use it out to 300 yards on my range

 

The "crunching is normal. I load it on my Dillion but do so in a single stage manner with each powder load measured individually trickling the last few tenths of a grain.The nature of the powder does make it a pain through powder measures. That's not a big deal as I only load 60 rounds or so prior to each match.

 

Another drawback of loading the coarse, crunchy powders

Care must be taken to avoid the powder bridging the measure blocking the flow.

 

I have several jugs of WC844 surplus powder for range loads that meters great through the Dillion measures.

[JimmyAGR 54]

Thanks guys, I went and bought some CFE223 today. I was looking at that and TAC. Cabela's was out of TAC and I got the last 5 jugs of CFE. I liked the load specs of both as it has a wide range of measurements / FPS pressures. I plan on making 10 rounds of each in the spectrum to see how it runs. It looks like it should meter great (thanks Frank).

 

rscalzo _ how did you get the rounds to seat to magazine length using 24 grs. of Varget? With 23.9 I was over 2.27,

[JonF 79]

The CFE223 stuff is pretty new and i don't know how proven it is or if there is a lot of data out there for it yet. I also hear good things about Reloader-15 for 223. I've not used it yet so i can't speak for it, nor its physical grain size. Anyone have any input on this powder?

 

I have tried 8208 XBR and it is a fine powder that meters great, but it didn't produce the best accuracy for me. Many people have lots of good results with it though and it seems geared to 223.

[addicted 0]

Like everyone said, the dillon powder measure really doesn't like stick powders. I have used win 748 and aa2230 with great results making high volume 55 grain ammo.

[KpdPipes 388]

Like everyone said, the dillon powder measure really doesn't like stick powders. I have used win 748 and aa2230 with great results making high volume 55 grain ammo.

neither does the hornady

[Old School 611]

Gentlemen - A little on a side note, Don't blow off the progressive press for mega accurate loads. I spend a decent amount of time on case prep (FL sizing and length, all cases from same lot and same amount of firings). And using the ball powders my powder weights in the Dillon are with in .1 to .005 consistent.

 

And yes I end up using my 550 as kind of a single stage for rifle.

[JimmyAGR 54]

The CFE223 stuff is pretty new and i don't know how proven it is or if there is a lot of data out there for it yet. I also hear good things about Reloader-15 for 223. I've not used it yet so i can't speak for it, nor its physical grain size. Anyone have any input on this powder?

 

I have tried 8208 XBR and it is a fine powder that meters great, but it didn't produce the best accuracy for me. Many people have lots of good results with it though and it seems geared to 223.

 

Jon, I have used RL-15 with good success at 24.1 grns and Sierra 77's. It is a great powder, but the Dillon would vary the charges, so I had to single load it, which went against the whole progressive thing. If you trickle your charges you will be very happy with Reloader.

[Wojo 98]

A little late to this. I like Varget for 223 loads using 69g OTM's out of my Wydle 1/8 barrel. 75's/77's compressed a little too much for my comfort zone. I bought a bunch of TAC for plinking and economy accuracy. I can't see the difference between TAC and Varget off the bench or during shooting in comps. I do see a huge difference in ease of metering in both of my manual powder dispenser. Odds are my technique is going to account more in accuracy then these powders. The el'cheapo Lee Precision Powder Measure dumps stick powders the best...not perfect, but pretty darn good. TAC just flows in everything.

 

I need to evaluate the 'benefits' of stick powders again. When I bought my reloading set up from an old timer, he hooked me up big time and gave me a bunch of H4895 / 4350 and I just could of stuck with the sticks until TAC and some other powders. Once my current supply of Varget is gone I won't be buying more. I will stick with 4895 for my Garands and other mid-weight bullets.

W748 always seemed to be out of stock when I buy powder. Need to investigate CFE.

[Old School 611]

A little late to this. I like Varget for 223 loads using 69g OTM's out of my Wydle 1/8 barrel. 75's/77's compressed a little too much for my comfort zone. I bought a bunch of TAC for plinking and economy accuracy. I can't see the difference between TAC and Varget off the bench or during shooting in comps. I do see a huge difference in ease of metering in both of my manual powder dispenser. Odds are my technique is going to account more in accuracy then these powders. The el'cheapo Lee Precision Powder Measure dumps stick powders the best...not perfect, but pretty darn good. TAC just flows in everything.

 

I need to evaluate the 'benefits' of stick powders again. When I bought my reloading set up from an old timer, he hooked me up big time and gave me a bunch of H4895 / 4350 and I just could of stuck with the sticks until TAC and some other powders. Once my current supply of Varget is gone I won't be buying more. I will stick with 4895 for my Garands and other mid-weight bullets.

W748 always seemed to be out of stock when I buy powder. Need to investigate CFE.

 

As I've said I've had good results with 748 and I'm using CFE as well. CFE seems to work pretty well and is an accurate an economical as 748. If you are having problems getting 748 I encourage you to use CFE.

[JonF 79]

I recently decided to try some TAC with my usual 69gr SMK's out of my 20" 1/8 bull barrel AR upper. Results were nowhere near as good as the groups it shoots with Varget. Shame too because even with the auto trickler, it metered out QUICK! With Varget i can shoot sub MOA all day with .5-.6 groups being the norm. With TAC, laddered up some charges (23.5, 24.0 and 24.3) and none of them were sub MOA at all. My best group might have been about 1.5-2.0 MOA if i discount some as flyers but i dont know if they were or not. I shot some of my reference varget loads same day and those shot to the same degree of consistency as usual so with everything else being equal, looks like TAC just isn't doing it for this setup. Shame too as i had thoughts of running some ammo through the progressive to bang out fast accurate ammo!