Obama Begins Push for New National Retirement System..401K at risk?

[Melgamatic 66]

Actually the Affordable Care act allows them to have access to all your banking information, accounts, etc.

 

And so does the internal revenue service laws, and the child support laws. Have they seized your accounts yet?

[rtquig 45]

Nj state pension system is proof that you do not want government to handle your retirement investment. You do your part and they blatantly run it into the ground. Ohh and the taxpayer will get the blame for it all

 

 

They not only took our money and invested it poorly, but also never met their share of the payments and then beat us up making us look like bad guys to the general public.

[Qel Hoth 33]

 

 

 

They not only took our money and invested it poorly, but also never met their share of the payments and then beat us up making us look like bad guys to the general public.

 

This the pension fund would be just fine if the state made the payments they were supposed to and kept their hands out of the cookie jar...

[mipafox 438]

It was brought up in 2008 as previously mentioned.

 

The first thing that really disturbs me in this thread is people saying "They can't."

 

The second, more important thing, is that "they have," in all measures. And, most recently, your medical care. There are no restrictions on the powers of the federal government.

 

If you don't think they are ready to seize the assests of your "trustee," as was proposed in 2008, then maybe they will just tax it until you decide to turn it over to them for a better deal.

 

The supreme court just ruled that the federal goverment can "tax" you $4,300 per year, or perhaps whatever they want, if you don't buy health insurance.

 

They can tax you $43,000,000 per year if you don't buy brocoli every week, and send a video of you eating it with your tax return to the IRS. Oh, turns out it wasn't 15,000 new IRS agents to check on your medical care, it's thousands more now. And they haven't started.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

This would be hysterical if it was to actually happen.....

 

.....why? because the boomers, who are the group that will be retiring over the next few years, would feel the pain first!!!

 

.....and they were 60's radicals, who pushed this collective bs to begin with.......HAHAHAHAHA

[71ragtopgoat 23]

This the pension fund would be just fine if the state made the payments they were supposed to and kept their hands out of the cookie jar...

Still the buy of the century. Where can I sign up?

[O-gre 7]

Existing accounts will be fine. They can always change the rules going forward.

[leahcim 679]

 

"This hearing was set up to explore why Americans are not saving as much for their retirement as they could," explains National Seniors Council National Director Robert Crone, "However, it is clear that this is the first step towards a government takeover. It feels just like the beginning of the debate over health care and we all know how that ended up."

A representative of the liberal Pension Rights Center, Rebecca Davis, testified that the government needs to get involved because 401k plans and IRAs are unfair to poor people. She demanded the Obama administration set up a "government-sponsored program administered by the PBGC (the governments’ Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation)." She proclaimed that even "private annuities are problematic."

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalseniorscouncil.org ...

Americans are not saving enough because they (right or wrong) believe social security and other govt programs will take care of them. It is the very govt sponsored programs that are meant to take care of the poor which give an incentive not to worry, not to save. It is a moral hazard. If SS did not exist (or if it really were just a means-tested insurance program) people would have the needed incentive to make their own arrangements for retirement. If people know up front that the govt is not necessarilly going to pay you in old age, many more would take care of it themselves. I can see the govt providing something for those who truly have not been able to save, or have had poor investment performance, but you make that level of support low enough that people have great incentive to not rely on it.

 

I don't see the govt seizing private property any time soon--if you think people get passionate about 2A rights, wait till you start taking their hard earned money.

[tony357 386]

If big brother takes my 401 plan i will write it off.. An eye for an eye.. not that he will be getting much any way..

[Malsua 1,422]

It would be very easy for the government to absorb this money.

 

1. Establish GRA. Government Retirement Accounts. Tax free accumulation, just like a 401k.

2. Eliminate the tax incentives for 401k. "All 401k must pay the tax currently due on the balance in a separate one time tax that will NOT go towards your income for the year" unless you roll it over into the GRA which will continue to allow you to accumulate your balance tax free. You may keep your 401k wherever you'd like after you pay the tax and all future contributions are after tax.

3. Wait for the market to have a huge crash, triggered by people pulling their money out ahead of GRA.

4. Allow everyone to transfer their balance into the GRA based on the balance indexed to a day somewhat before the crash.

 

99% of the people would move their accounts in a heartbeat voluntarily.

 

Hungary did it. Argentina Did it, Bulgaria is talking about it, Poland wants to take 1/3 of the private retirement funds into the public system. Ireland and France are doing something very similar. It all amounts to the same thing. Absorb your "real" funds and replace them with a promise.

 

This is an idea socialists love. They can spend your money now and leave you with a promise that when it comes your time to collect, the government will guarantee you get paid. Until of course they can't.

[EchoMirage 137]

It was brought up in 2008 as previously mentioned.

 

The first thing that really disturbs me in this thread is people saying "They can't."

 

 

just goes to show there are sheep everywhere

[BCeagle 12]

Take it to a pawn shop or coin shop, you will get anywhere between 10% and a few hundred below spot price.

 

Silver is a lot closer. Gold coins, you will be buying a few hundred above spot, and selling for spot price. Its more than any overpriced brokerage firm.

 

I know jewelers in NY that will buy for whatever gold is trading at that day. I had one in the family and she kept the relationships open on 47th.

[this_is_nascar 162]

People are going to move their money out of IRAs and 401Ks, the stock market will take a beating and the money has to go somewhere. Barry and his buddies have been burning the midnight oil printing Federal Reserve Notes as fast as they can. Gold and Silver are stable commodities, they only lose value when the dollar become stronger, and that ain't happening any time soon. A home was never considered an investment until our economic system started throwing cheap money around which artificially increased demand and thus prices. The bust happened when the cheap money stopped flowing and prices came back down to reality. The value of an ounce of gold will purchase the same things today as it purchased 100 years ago, can you say the same for the dollar?

 

 

That's exactly my point. Up until 2008, one could (and did) say the same thing about a house/home. Do what you want, but just as the pissing and mowning that took place with home values, don't come looking to me or my money to bail you (not you personally, but a collectively you) out of that either if/when you tie up all your funds in commodities and that bottoms-out.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Americans are not saving enough because they (right or wrong) believe social security and other govt programs will take care of them. It is the very govt sponsored programs that are meant to take care of the poor which give an incentive not to worry, not to save. It is a moral hazard. If SS did not exist (or if it really were just a means-tested insurance program) people would have the needed incentive to make their own arrangements for retirement. If people know up front that the govt is not necessarilly going to pay you in old age, many more would take care of it themselves. I can see the govt providing something for those who truly have not been able to save, or have had poor investment performance, but you make that level of support low enough that people have great incentive to not rely on it.

 

I don't see the govt seizing private property any time soon--if you think people get passionate about 2A rights, wait till you start taking their hard earned money.

 

 

I believe that only to a certain extent. I don't think people are saving because they're not looking at the bigger picture, long term. In there minds, it's all for today, all for now, with disregard of the future. This current generation proves this every day by their actions. They purchase things they can't afford. They extend themselves past their means, knowingly. Look at all the idiots who post things on social media with no regard as to how that will impact the rest of their lives. It's a bigger problem, in my opinion, then people just banking on Uncle Sam to help them along, although I agree, that is part of the problem.

[Candide 0]

A lot of people aren't saving enough because they simply can't afford to. I believe the tipping point is coming very soon where the majority can no longer afford to live due to the high rate of taxes, the nickel and diming by every govt agency out there, and the high cost of living.

[this_is_nascar 162]

A lot of people aren't saving enough because they simply can't afford to. I believe the tipping point is coming very soon where the majority can no longer afford to live due to the high rate of taxes, the nickel and diming by every govt agency out there, and the high cost of living.

 

Another good point contributing to the mess.

 

 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[n4p226r 105]

 

 

I'm inclined to assume you already own some, given your support of the practice. Let me ask you a question. Do you, right at this very moment, honestly know a person or place that will buy that gold directly from you for exactly it's current market value? If you needed to sell it in to cover a sudden expense, can you say with 100% certainty that you could easily find an able & intersted buyer within 24-72 hours?

 

What I'm getting at is that I'm skeptical of the notion that gold's value on the commodities market means all that much for a non-trader sitting at home with gold physically in their possession. I tend to doubt that they would be in a position to sell it directly at that market price, making it's trends on the stock market relatively moot for a private citizen that owns some.

 

Go to apmex and see what they sell for and buy back at price wise.

[Red Solo Cup 11]

What's interesting is, watch when the price of paper gold/silver takes a dip, say 20%, then go try to buy physical at that price.

You won't find any.

People aren't stupid.

[db1775 4]

I don't believe that BHO would do this, yet. They have been trying their level best over the past two years since that fake "Summer of Recovery" to paint in the very best possible light every one of their skewed labor, GDP and econometric measures, even in the face of common sense. They've so far as to suggest that a drop from 8.1% unemployment to 7.9% was a game changer and cause for re-election!

 

No, to confiscate private retirement savings in this fashion would be too plain an admission of the defeat. However, I just don't get the "It-CAN'T-happen-here" mentality. Especially when it already has happened here -- Executive Order 6102.

 

In 1933 FDR signed an order outlawing the "hoarding" of monetary gold and ordered all privately held gold, with some exceptions, to be surrendered to the Federal Reserve System. People got paid some money for it, but not the spot price. That is theft in my book. Just because the law says one thing today, do not think it cannot or will not be ignored tomorrow. We are not the heirs to 1775, people will lay down for anything now (and in 1933).

[mcbethr 42]

In 1933 FDR signed an order outlawing the "hoarding" of monetary gold and ordered all privately held gold, with some exceptions, to be surrendered to the Federal Reserve System. People got paid some money for it, but not the spot price. That is theft in my book. Just because the law says one thing today, do not think it cannot or will not be ignored tomorrow. We are not the heirs to 1775, people will lay down for anything now (and in 1933).

 

I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up.

 

I don't see the government "coming for" your 401(k) but I can see them mandating that you purchase Treasuries to prop up our currency.

 

You know how we funded WWII by selling war bonds? Our government effectively plowed government paychecks back into the government to keep making tanks and planes and ships... so they could have the money to pay the workers who were making tanks and planes and ships.

 

But what if the government suddenly needed money to pay for ObamaCare and student loans and infrastructure improvements, but China decided not to buy our bonds?

 

Congress could pass a law... let's call it the "The Economic Patriotism Act" where a certain percentage amount of your money in your IRA or 401(k) had to be invested in government securities until retirement age. This would guarantee that Americans would buy American debt to pay for American improvements.

 

This would also guarantee that there would be buyers for America's debt... at least until the percentage of Treasuries required reaches 100%... and what happens after that is anybody's guess.

[JrzyGuy30 0]

Another article regarding the topic.. http://www.theminorityreportblog.com/2012/11/21/obama-begins-push-for-new-national-retirement-system/

[Red Solo Cup 11]

I highly recommend the book called Treasure Islands by Nicholas Shaxson about the international offshore banking system centered on London and the way it facilitates capital flight from the third world. It is a real eye opener about how international capital moves around and evades taxes generally.

[Dan 177]

Found this site reading a news article. An organization that is focusing on preventing Congress "going after" 401k's. There are many options the govt has at their disposal that could siphon $$$'s that do not involve outright confiscation.

 

http://savemy401k.com/

[mipafox 438]

Found this site reading a news article. An organization that is focusing on preventing Congress "going after" 401k's. There are many options the govt has at their disposal that could siphon $$$'s that do not involve outright confiscation.

 

http://savemy401k.com/

 

 

Did somebody take "outright confiscation" off the table?

 

You live in America. I don't know if you've been paying attention, but they do whatever they want. There isn't any "list of rules" or "checks and balances." They've already destroyed all of the Rights of the People.

 

They can take you car and your money and your house with no due process and no compensation but you think they can't take your retirement fund?

[Soju 153]

 

In 1933 FDR signed an order outlawing the "hoarding" of monetary gold and ordered all privately held gold, with some exceptions, to be surrendered to the Federal Reserve System. People got paid some money for it, but not the spot price. That is theft in my book. Just because the law says one thing today, do not think it cannot or will not be ignored tomorrow. We are not the heirs to 1775, people will lay down for anything now (and in 1933).

I'd say more than theft. And nobody got paid any money for it, as it eliminated all real money and left us with fiat paper notes.

 

 

Did somebody take "outright confiscation" off the table?

 

You live in America. I don't know if you've been paying attention, but they do whatever they want. There isn't any "list of rules" or "checks and balances." They've already destroyed all of the Rights of the People.

 

They can take you car and your money and your house with no due process and no compensation but you think they can't take your retirement fund?

 

Correct. The only thing left in the Bill of Rights that one could even make a valid argument that still exists is the 3rd Amendment...for now.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

What's interesting is, watch when the price of paper gold/silver takes a dip, say 20%, then go try to buy physical at that price.

You won't find any.

People aren't stupid.

 

Not true.

 

I buy/sell silver every few months, pays for all the ammo I use at matches.

 

I never asked the spread, but he has always been fair.

 

It's cool with me to make a few thou tax-free a few times a year.

 

I don't do gold, I am cheap!

[Candide 0]

 

 

 

Did somebody take "outright confiscation" off the table?

 

You live in America. I don't know if you've been paying attention, but they do whatever they want. There isn't any "list of rules" or "checks and balances." They've already destroyed all of the Rights of the People.

 

They can take you car and your money and your house with no due process and no compensation but you think they can't take your retirement fund?

 

Thats it in a nutshell. The govt has a do whatever we want and get away with it badge.

[mikelets456 78]

Existing accounts will be fine. They can always change the rules going forward.

 

In the 1930's the government confiscated personally and privately owned GOLD...what makes anyone think these criminals won't do it to your 401K? People keep trusting our government as though they were looking out for our best interest. You think that is so? I bet a very short time ago people thought it be crazy for gun confiscation now it's talked about daily. We are literally following step-by-step what the FDR administration did in the 1930's.

 

The more you accept the realization that these people in Washington are not your politicians of the 1950's and have Marxist ideologies the more you'll realize what they're capable of taking.