300 Blackout - Thoughts / Experience / Reflections?

[Wojo 98]

Looking into getting a 300 blackout and figured I would ask the peanut gallery for some input.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Interested in thoughts as well. My ard build will either be this or 6.8 spc II

[rightisright 3]

To me, the only advantage of the Blackout is the ability to shoot it subsonically w. a suppressor. Since that isn't possible in NJ, the round loses any appeal it may have had.

[T Bill 649]

While the 300 Blackout is popular in the sbr/suppressed crowd, it is also gaining polularity with deer and hog hunting in the states that permit it. It is also a new "look to" caliber for major PF (320PF) in three gun competition. Rule changes may alter this view. It is now SAAMI adopted so vendors will begin to include it in their offerings.

 

I like a 30 cal rifle. For me the ease of converting 223/556 brass to shoot 30 cal without moving to the ar 10 platform is appealing. All you need to shoot 300BLK in an ar is a new barrel. Uses same bolt mags, etc.

 

I am in the process of completing a 300 blackout build. Just about done. Built on a New Frontier Armory G-15 ( aluminum alloy ) frame, 16" SS Carbine Barrel, and carbine recoil system. I will post pics and performance stats as range time permits. Sandy has disrupted my timetable. I reload so the cost of ammo is not a concern to me at the present time. I am working up a load for 147gr to 175gr boolits now. It is capable of 110gr to 220 plus grain heads.

 

Based on reading and research for us in NJ I found a 16" carbine DI System on a Carbine Stock recoil stock about the best combo one can have. Barrels beyond 16" have no advantage and carbine recoil systems are prefered. After this, the jury is still out on the right "legos" to include in your build.

 

Some have concluded it is already dead in the water. But, by the interest I see growing in it, I believe it is only starting to gain popularity

 

Lots of good info at 300BLKTalk.com.

[Maksim 1,504]

Really nice round. More energy than 223. Reloading will cost more because of bullets, but would be my next build.

 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[Wojo 98]

T Bill - you are looking at it the way I am as well. I reload and love 30 cal. I was seriously considering picking up an AR10T again, but was having a hard time justifiying the costs. A 30 cal 125g bullet using a Nosler BT is pretty versatile for deer under 150 yards without busting thru brush and if needed CQB. At one point I was considering getting a 7.62x39 upper but they always seemed to have quirks. I need to investigate this a little more for a winter project I think.

 

I came across the 300BLK site and just scanned it real quick. Guess I will be lurking there for a bit. I am also considering get this in a bolt gun as well. Might make for a nice dual purpose round for urban environments where 90% of your shots are under 100 yrds.

[CageFighter 236]

wait for Tactical Monkey & Shane45 chime in. I think this may be my next upper.

[mipafox 438]

It's a 30-30, except that 300 ammo is more expensive.  If you aren't going to suppress it, buy a 6.8.  Obviously, 6.5 is superior, but we know how that went.

[BlueLineFish 615]

It's a 30-30, except that 300 ammo is more expensive.  If you aren't going to suppress it, buy a 6.8.  Obviously, 6.5 is superior, but we know how that went.

 

How did it go?

[mipafox 438]

They kept it proprietary and the ammo is limited and expensive. I don't know all the ins and outs except that 6.5 is a great round, with better medium and long range performance, that almost nobody uses. Including me.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Checking ammoseek it seems 6.5 Grendel is cheaper

[mipafox 438]

Really? Hmmm....

[T Bill 649]

Wojo,

 

I have a 7.62 x39 upper, Mini-30, and a bolt action. I really like them. They have their pluses and minuses. Back in the day (early 90's), Chinese ammo was to be our cheap saviour. Well we see how that is going. Even handloading 7.62 x39 is up from when I used to get 1100 round Chinese ammo cases for $79.00. I did work up a load to shoot a 150 grain 308 in the 7.62 x 39 case. Helluva deer round. Earlier this year I decided drop the SKS's and foreign ammo, but wanted to keep the round as I have everything I need to reload. I have a good inventory of used brass but nothing lasts forever.

 

I think the 300 Blackout will step in an fill a void for a short action 30 caliber with more punch than a 7.62x39 or 30-30 that is easy to reload, have a great assortment of boolits already available and brass that is easy to obtain or formed from brass that is plentiful. The only downfall now is finding the right powder to get the most out of the round. This too, will improve as popularity grows and the powder manufacturers come up with a new blends to meet the demand.

 

In all so far I am pleased with the progress on this project. I will post updates as I complete more of the project.

[Wojo 98]

Thanks TBill.I have a butt load of used 223 brass and a nice stock of 30 cal bullets. How has TAC powder worked? I am waist deep in TAC and being that is / was meant for 223 / 308, I figured it might be decent. But that heavy bullet, small case might make a pistol powders favorable...just getting my feet wet and need to spend more time on the suggested website when I have some time. I recently sold my SKS which I rarely used. The 762/39 round is a good one, but if can use a hybrid of my 223 brass and 308 ammo, that certainly is nice.

 

Correct me if I am wrong. After reloading 223/556 brass, say X amount of times, the most likely failure is going to be in the neck IIRC. Never had one and I have reloaded some of my brass 5 / 6 times. So trimming 223 brass that has been reloaded a few times, should be fine to convert to the 300...maybe?

[Wojo 98]

FWIW - I was looking at making a sub-sonic 30-30 round but this might be a better use of my resources. My intention is to buy a bolt gun chambered for 300 before I drop coin on an Ar-upper. With the WH's very open and anti- 2A coming to light, bolt guns 'should' be off the radar if they decent to go for our jugular.

[Dan 177]

edit: My armchair general opinion here...

 

300 AAC advantages over 7.62x39 is the handful of specialty bullets that you can use, and slightly better ballistics. Mechanical advantages are using existing AR mags/BCG.

 

I feel that is that it is practical out to 200-250 yards when considering ballistics (maximum point blank range, energy, etc). Not bad at all. I also feel much of the performance gains over 7.62x39 are attributed to typically better components available (like expanding .308 bullets) that are far superior to the typical ex-combloc bulk 7.62x39 ammo out there.

 

A good mini "thumper" concept for the AR.

 

If you have aspirations to push 300+ yards on an AR platform, I would personally look elsewhere.

[Tactical Turtle 11]

i spent alot of time researching this. i actually started to build my 300 black out and sold my setup. anyway ammo availability scared me. cost not so much since it would be a novelty gun persay. no real practical use in nj, kinda like your 556 round except for hitting steel and punching holes in paper. i guess if you reload ammo isnt an issue. a huge turn on was the interchangeable magazines and bcg. also supposedly the sub sonic 220 grain set ups arent much loader then a 22. i guess to each his own. curious on ur decission

[Wojo 98]

I'm looking for a short range thumper. If I am going beyond 150yrds, the 308 / 30-06 will be utilized. I recently purchased a Tikka 30-06 that will be a combo hunter / tactical...it has a fluted barrel and I already have the tactical bolt and other goodies to help it perform both well. That with a M1 covers my longer range shared caliber needs. I think this 300 will fit nicely in the shorter range roles. The lower noise signal is attractive in the bolt gun role. Need to investigate the sub-sonic functions with the AR. Like I mentioned, the AR upper will be after I play with the bolt gun.

 

The other bonus, it for my twin teenage girls. The lower recoil on this might make for a good multipurpose round for them as well. My son is 14 and is already my size and he wants my 308. If I can develop this 300 in a good 150g load....I might be buying some 150g 308 bullets that require a tail gate delivery to be dropped off curbside.

 

FWIW - all my kids once leaving the nest will have a shotgun, 22lr, a deer gun and an AR and a pistol. Throw a bible in and they will have guidance to keep thier compass true and tools to thwart evil or put food on the table.

[KpdPipes 388]

T Bill - you are looking at it the way I am as well. I reload and love 30 cal. I was seriously considering picking up an AR10T again, but was having a hard time justifiying the costs. A 30 cal 125g bullet using a Nosler BT is pretty versatile for deer under 150 yards without busting thru brush and if needed CQB. At one point I was considering getting a 7.62x39 upper but they always seemed to have quirks. I need to investigate this a little more for a winter project I think.

 

I came across the 300BLK site and just scanned it real quick. Guess I will be lurking there for a bit. I am also considering get this in a bolt gun as well. Might make for a nice dual purpose round for urban environments where 90% of your shots are under 100 yrds.

 

Bradswarehouse.com has remanned Lake City for $114/500

Tacticalbrass.com has it for $40/250 although they;re out of stock

 

The round has been out long enough that there is a lot of data available for it now As I posted before, Midway puts SI Defense barrels on sale a couple of times a year, but Si bbls have VERY tight gas ports.

 

for 150 grn im seeing loads using H110, Lil Gun, and 4227

 

Im basing the Two loads I plan to shoot oput of it on H110 using Nosler 125's and Sierra 220's

[T Bill 649]

Wojo,

 

The 223/556 case is trimmed below the shoulder before forming into 300Blk. Right now it is a time consuming process for creating brass to load, but I enjoy it. Using Hornady dies right now and having just the regular hiccups in the beginning. I use the lathe at my son's shop for trimming, just easier for me. I have a load of canadian IVI brass from 1985 I am forming into 300BLK, seems to be OK. Hell, 223/556 once fires are still only 70/1000.

 

I am using AA1680 and Hogdon H110 right now to start with. More info is coming up daily as other vendors provide product. I here Hogdon Lil Gun is working good also. Hornady's ninth edition is supposed to have quite a bit on 300BLK data. Ramshot Enforcer is the only powder I know being tried from that product line.

[Wojo 98]

Thank you to everyone so far. I'm a geek so I'll be pondering all this in the back of my head while my sister in law is blabbing endless about her last vacation over Thanksgiving dinner.

 

As far as the brass prep...I have the RCBS motorized trimmer with a 3 way cutting head does a real nice job cutting cases square and adding a nice bevel on the inside and outside of the case. I plan on using that once I trim to the rough length and size. What has been the method to cut the case down? Special tool, hacksaw, pipe / tubing cutter?

[BlueLineFish 615]

Well it seems that for a fresh build 7.62 x 39 is the way to go. If I want 300 blackout just get an new upper for my 5.56

[T Bill 649]

For the 1st cut most are using a 3" trim saw from harbor freight. There is even someone on 300blktalk that has tooled a replacement vise to facilitate faster trimming. Then reforming the brass/sizing, trimming for length and so on............

 

There is difference of opinion on annealing the reform brass. Some claim it is necessary, others say they have found little difference in number of reloads before neck splits begin.

 

I am trying without annealing this first lot. Can always anneal before reloading the next time.............

 

A trick to annealing is to spin the brass in a socket mounted on a drill, where the length of the socket just rises to below the shoulder of the case. Set up a propane tourch on low flame where the deep blue tip is about 3/4 inch long. Spin the case with the brass in it where the tip of the deep blue inner flame is just touching the case neck for eight seconds or case turns color (glows). Case annealed. It is important that the case is spinning before and after contact with the flame.

 

 

BLF,

The reason the 7.62x39 has never taken off in ar platform is the taper of the case makes mag feeding difficult. That is why the new batch of 7.62x39 ar lowers are modified/milled to use ak mags exclusively instead.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Would that be the ar-47 lower

[T Bill 649]

Yes it would. However, based on manufacturer of the lower, most but not all AK mags may work.

[Wojo 98]

I guess some experimentation is in order to judge the 'time value' versus 'money value' of annealing. Labor intensive...if it only gains you one or two more additional loads compared to not annealing, I'd pass on it. IIRC, could be wrong, but something in the back of my mind recalls that if you do the 3-way (edge) trim on the case, if helps to reduce / disapate the stresses on the neck. Which was one of the selling points of me buying those cutting heads for my motorized trimmer versus a flat cut. I'll wait on the annealling process for the Beta rounds. Maybe this is way I haven't had any case issues with my reloads...also, I don't reload to max pressures either. Precision and case life are better then getting an extra 5% velocity.

[Tactical Monkey 51]

My Thoughts (originally posted 7/19/12, copied here):

The goal of 300Blk was to be able to fire a .30 cal projectile out of a standard AR-15, using the same bolt, BCG, magazines, buffer, buffer spring, etc., with the only requirement being a barrel change. This allows a lightweight platform to fire a 110-147gr supersonic.308 bullet, out of the most standard weapon in use by law enforcement and the military (with a huge amount of civilian shooter with AR15s as well).

 

Suppresion/subsonic is just a benefit of the round design. I've shot subsonics through my Blackout Upper and it sounds a hair louder than a .22, and it's pushing a 220 grain projectile. So don't get to hung up on not having a suppressor, as even the super sonic rounds are pretty quiet compared to their .308 counterparts,

 

Some of the hot topics about 300 Blackout:

"300 AAC Blackout has as much energy from a 16 inch barrel as 5.56mm from a 24 inch barrel. You get 8 inches of barrel for free."

 

"300 AAC BLACKOUT, due to the larger bore than 223, is very efficient in shorter barrels, and we have had good functioning results with AR barrels down to 6.2 inches."

 

"300 AAC Blackout has a little less energy at the muzzle(than 7.62x39), but due to higher BC bullets, it is equal by around 110 meters, and by 300 meters, the Remington 125 grain Match ammo has 16.7% more energy than even the hot Lapua 7.62x39mm ammo."

 

Regarding accuracy, I can shoot right around 1 MOA out of my upper at 100 yards off a bench, so it's definitely combat accurate.

Potency, it's a landslide. IMHO, there is no better round ballistically inside 250 yards for all purpose defensive use. The 147gr carry a metric ton of energy downrange, and it was rated combat effective to 410m out of a 9" barrel by the military. The new Barnes bullet apparently is pretty devastating as well.

 

Recoil impulse is less than or equal to a 5.56, and this was confirmed with 2 others who shot my 5.56 and 300Blk uppers back to back.

 

Light as you can make your AR, so no added bulk like you get with a 6.8 or .308 AR platform.

 

30k round estimated barrel life, due to the relatively low PSI of the cartridge.

 

Out of a 9" barrel, you're getting a 125-147gr projectile at 2,000 ft/s, with 1,100 ft-lbs at the Muzzle. That's roughly 25% more than 5.56 M855 out of a 9" barrel.

 

 

Regarding reliability - the system has to be run wet. At least that's been my experience. I can shoot both super and subs through my AAC 16" barrel without issue. I originally had trouble short stroking with subs - but once I swapped to a standard carbine buffer I was good to go.

 

It's not a round for the masses, but the SAAMI spec and the fact that it's been picked up by over 60 firearms & ammunition companies (barrels, reloading supplies, ammo, etc.) does make it an interesting choice. In NJ it's not as cut and dry, since the round excels out of short barreled rifles, and with suppression. However I really enjoy mine.

 

http://njgunforums.c...__fromsearch__1

 

http://njgunforums.c...__fromsearch__1

[mipafox 438]

MGI makes a lower with swappable magwells. Extremely popular among the RDIAS crowd.

 

I don't think I would do it, but if I wanted to go with 7.62x39 in an AR, then I would be crazy enough to also want to use grease gun .45 mags and any darn thing else down the road. So I would go with the MGI lower.

[mipafox 438]

http://www.mgi-military.com/index.php?id=27&sub_id=22

 

7.62x39, 5.54, Glock mags, Grease Gun mags, you name it, more to come.

 

The hard core people love these things, they are thoroughly tested and excepted by the old boys with the big toys.

[Wojo 98]

Tactical Monkey...and everyone else, thanks again for the input. The more I read and research the more likely I am going to adopt this platform. I'm not really interested in the 9" or suppressed configurations....(well I am, but this is the PRNJ).

 

I've always considered having a CQB / short range rifle that was a 30 cal. The M1 Carbine I had and had to sell because of NJ's AWB filled that niche. My wife's grandfather jumped the night before D-Day and his experience was that M1 Carbine was plenty good to take out a few Kraut's at close range. His endorsement of a weapon speaks volumes to me. He was re-activate for a jump instructor for Korean Conflict and then brought back in again for Vietnam. He liked making 30 cal holes compared to the 5.56.

 

I was re-considering getting an AR10 and using 125g's for fast follow ups, but the idea of having a close to 10lb rifle was a con. I have M1's for that. I lust for M1A's but the reality is my gross motor skills are soooo in tune for an AR, it would be foolish to except in a stressed situation, my mechanics would work a 'secondary' system faster.

 

So after doing some research into the wee hours of the morning last night, I think I am going to jump in right after Xmas. I will wind up buying my dies, case length gauges, go / no-go gauges, trim / chop saw and jigs to make the brass etc. much sooner. I like Savages so I am leaning towards an Axis for a donor gun, but am not 100% on it. Mostly because of the economy of the Axis and will rebarrel it. Waiting on a Remy 700 SPS in 300 seems in practical and will be pricey. At some point, I will drop the coin and get a top shelf AR upper for it. If I can get 1 MOA with the bolt gun @100 yrds I will be more then happy for such an economy set up. I would lean towards a 2x-7x scope for the bolt and a 1x-4x for the upper and call it a day.

 

I have fun shooting sub-sonic 22LR's out of my 10/22 even with the occasional FTE's. I'd imagine sniping from an interior room to the exterior, with some sound absorbing materials on the walls (Sleeping Bags / Blankets) would make this nothing more then a pop 50 yards away with windows closed. Certainly nothing to wake anyone from a dead sleep or to spook the rest of the Zombie Herd.

 

The next question is....why isn't our military looking into this.