Essex County Mental Health Records Destroyed in Sandy

[mx597turbo 0]

OK, so I finally got a straight answer today. The Essex County mental health records were destroyed in Sandy. It's going to be approximately 3 more months until they are able to process the mental health requests.

 

I lived in another county most of my life, and only recently moved to Essex County (about 1 month before applying for the FID). I am going to see how I can go about getting my mental health records from the other county, and if BPD will accept them.

 

If anyone knows of another source for these records, please let us know. It will help out a lot of people in Essex.

[mcbethr 42]

This could be an excellent test case for the 30 day law...

 

If voting registers were destroyed wouldn't you be permitted to vote by provisional ballot?

 

The constitution is not a buffet. We don't get to pick and choose what rights we want.

[Sell682 1]

Destroyed? Talk about a business continuity plan.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

This could be an excellent test case for the 30 day law...

 

If voting registers were destroyed wouldn't you be permitted to vote by provisional ballot?

 

The constitution is not a buffet. We don't get to pick and choose what rights we want.

I'm not sure how this would fair. Regardless of the 30 day rule they have to complete a metal check no matter what state your in.

[mipafox 438]

I'm not sure how this would fair. Regardless of the 30 day rule they have to complete a metal check no matter what state your in.

I don't think they do any mental checks in most states.

[mcbethr 42]

I don't think they do any mental checks in most states.

 

I think NICS does the mental health check as well. One of the reasons Jared Loughner was able to get a gun is that he was his mental records were never uploaded to NICS. Paul may be able to shed some light on exactly what NICS does.

[mipafox 438]

I think NICS does the mental health check as well.  One of the reasons Jared Loughner was able to get a gun is that he was his mental records were never uploaded to NICS.  Paul may be able to shed some light on exactly what NICS does.

I live in Northampton County. If Northampton County's mental health records were destroyed by Sandy, it would not prevent me from buying a gun from an FFL. They don't check mental health records, they check NICS for disqualifications. Outside of jersey, of course.

[TheDon 3]

NICS only hits on commitments for treatment. 72-hour observations and voluntary out-patient treatment do not hit on NICS.

However, 72-hour observations may be noted on police reports and thereby may be discovered during the background investigation for your FPID and PTPP.

[mx597turbo 0]

Another update: I called the Middlesex County adjuster. She told me she can't send me the mental health forms, but to check with the NJSP. They should be able to request the mental health from any county and forward the info to my local PD. I don't know if this is really the case, but I'll check and update later on.

[carl_g 568]

Great... When I called to check on the progress of my FID application today, the local PD said they were still waiting for the Mental Health check to come back. She told me others were also awaiting for the checks to come back.

[carl_g 568]

I got in touch with the county adjuster this am and she told me their records were at the bottom of the Passaic river and it would be "a couple of months" until anything could be processed. Essex is a huge county so I assume this is going to affect a lot of people.

[vmastro87 0]

NICS only hits on commitments for treatment. 72-hour observations and voluntary out-patient treatment do not hit on NICS.

However, 72-hour observations may be noted on police reports and thereby may be discovered during the background investigation for your FPID and PTPP.

 

not trying to highjack but does this mean if you have seen a doc on a voluntary basis it wont show up when you apply for your FID?

[mx597turbo 0]

I got in touch with the county adjuster this am and she told me their records were at the bottom of the Passaic river and it would be "a couple of months" until anything could be processed. Essex is a huge county so I assume this is going to affect a lot of people.

 

I tried the NJSP and got nowhere. I called the state number, and they told me to call local, I called local, and they told me to call the state. I think our only chance of getting this resolved soon is to get help from a rep or senator. Garrett is the only one I can think of who would help, as everyone local to Essex is anti-2A. Unfortunately, he represents Sussex County. I'm really busy with school until the New Year. I'll try to get in touch with him, but I'm not in any rush right now.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

They plan on going fishing or something? How are they goin to replace the records?

[carl_g 568]

Called NJSP Firearms unit and they told me to be patient and wait and there wasn't anything they could do for me.

[BossyMossy 0]

Well, I'm screwed too. I've been waiting since 9/20/2012. Since i was once a resident of Essex County, i am now waiting on their mental health check. (my Hudson county check came back already) Apparently what has already taken three months, is about to take another 6 months. So, in all? 9 months. i'll be lucky if i get my two P2P's by summer.

[mx597turbo 0]

Well, I'm screwed too. I've been waiting since 9/20/2012. Since i was once a resident of Essex County, i am now waiting on their mental health check. (my Hudson county check came back already) Apparently what has already taken three months, is about to take another 6 months. So, in all? 9 months. i'll be lucky if i get my two P2P's by summer.

 

If you think about it, Sandy didn't even hit until October 23 or 24, so they already dragged their feet for a month. Like I said, I'm going to contact Scott Garrett. Even though I'm not in his district, I was planning on buying a firearm from a business in his district. It's a long shot, but it may work to speed this up a little. This is a flat-out denial of our rights at this point. We have all been patient, and if they can't get the info from Essex, then a NICS should suffice in our cases.

[BossyMossy 0]

If you think about it, Sandy didn't even hit until October 23 or 24, so they already dragged their feet for a month. Like I said, I'm going to contact Scott Garrett. Even though I'm not in his district, I was planning on buying a firearm from a business in his district. It's a long shot, but it may work to speed this up a little. This is a flat-out denial of our rights at this point. We have all been patient, and if they can't get the info from Essex, then a NICS should suffice in our cases.

 

Oh, believe me, i've been thinking about it. It's unreal. The hurricane hit well after when they should have ALREADY had that paperwork completed. In any event, what can i do now but wait? Good luck and everything, but i tend to think we are at the mercy of the system at this point. When they want to fix things, they'll fix things. Believe me on this though, if it were food stamps or some type of garbage social welfare program that was "backed up" they would be scrambling to help the leeches who sit at home and never pay a dime of taxes.

[FamilyMan 0]

I too am stuck - but at least my local PD called me back to say they are stuck waiting for Essex. I'm just trying to get some PPPs so not the end of the world.

 

I'm just going to shoot what I have and chill as I don't see how complaining it going to get me anywhere this time. Believe me, if there was a chance that complaining would help me (or others) I would but it seems the county really does not have access to the records.

 

I may lob in a call or two after Christmas just to let them know. If anyone does get through to the county and/or our Representative let us know and I'll be more than happy to go visit them.

[gd1147 0]

Just signed up for this forum to find out this information. Just called Nutley PD and the guy there said he heard it can be up to 9 months before records are restored. Also was telling me how he knows of at least a few armed guards who have now lost their jobs because they cannot renew their carry permits. Debating if I should get in line for some PPPs as there will probably be a back log once Essex starts returning the background checks.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Just signed up for this forum to find out this information. Just called Nutley PD and the guy there said he heard it can be up to 9 months before records are restored. Also was telling me how he knows of at least a few armed guards who have now lost their jobs because they cannot renew their carry permits. Debating if I should get in line for some PPPs as there will probably be a back log once Essex starts returning the background checks.

 

Any reason to wait, it's not like it will make it go faster if you wait.. I'd go for it..

[gd1147 0]

Any reason to wait, it's not like it will make it go faster if you wait.. I'd go for it..

 

Well the $50 for fingerprints is a reason. He said they are only good for 6 months and if the process goes over 6 months I have to go back and pay another $50 for reprinting. But I guess $100 bucks is worth getting in line.

[BossyMossy 0]

I am extremely critical of the whole idea that this "cant be fixed and may take decades!" Give me a break. What are these government idiots doing on a daily basis? All jokes aside, 9 months is a very very long time. That's the time it takes for a cell to turn into a frigging human being for gods sake

[gd1147 0]

I am extremely critical of the whole idea that this "cant be fixed and may take decades!" Give me a break. What are these government idiots doing on a daily basis? All jokes aside, 9 months is a very very long time. That's the time it takes for a cell to turn into a frigging human being for gods sake

 

My understanding is they are being recovered from a backup facility in Houston. Sounds like it was an archival of paper and not an electronic backup or it would be done by now. My local PD rep who does permits didn't go as far as to say it but he felt like someone should be taking legal action against the county to get things moving.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Destroyed? Thank GAWD

 

:winkwink:

[rush1329 1]

My municipal detective from VPD read me the letter from essex county. he's almost as pissed as me because now it makes him look like he is incompetent at his job, which he is most definitely not. i was told the same thing by our captain, basement flooded during sandy, would be approx. 90 days from 12/3/12 unitl things were fully operational. I am personally waiting for a PP for a S&W MP40 that is paid for and waiting to be picked up from Ira at Legend Firearms. The whole situation is just total bs. i also get the feeling that because of the potential for new legistlation, EC is dragging they're feet because they don't want to do extra work

[BossyMossy 0]

Update: I spoke with the police officer in charge at my department too. He stated that he received that same letter and that I should call back around March. So, as i predicted, all in all, i'll be looking at a 7 month wait from start to finish for my two P2P's.

 

This really sucks. On the bright side, i may end up getting a stainless Sig p229 rather than the Glock 19 or 23 i was eyeing. Hell, i'll be able to save enough money to swing it at this point. Additionally, for my second permit, i may just be looking at a custom 1911 instead of the Colt i was planning on getting too! lol WIth all this waiting i'll probably have enough spare change for both of those upgrades.

[FamilyMan 0]

I got a call back from my local PD LT who said he called the county (which is a nice thing). His message was that he had talked to the county and got the same "we are working on it" response. He honestly is trying and was upset that the county had no better response. The people who are "working on it" could not even give the county rep an estimate for completion.

 

So it may be time for a lawsuit just to get their attention - say $10,000 day for each day over 30 for each occurrence (a class action) The law says 30 days and I know there has been legal precedence to hold off when "public safety" is an issue but this is ridiculous.

 

Is it our fault that the government "lost" the records? What if they never "find" them?

I thought this was a "innocent until proven guilty" country. So why are we being deprived of our rights due to no fault of our own???

 

Is anyone a lawyer or know if a lawyer or know someone at the NRA/GOA who can suit the county?

 

This incident certainly brings home the point about needing government approval for our rights. What if the government just chooses not to respond even through the law says they must. We are doing everything according to the law, is it so wrong to expect the government to the same?

[xshawnxearthx 0]

not trying to highjack but does this mean if you have seen a doc on a voluntary basis it wont show up when you apply for your FID?

It won't show up on the NICS, it will show up on your Mental Health Background check. Unless of course you don't use insurance to pay for your doctor visits....then you might be ok.

[kotkot 26]

i feel your pain. There are attorneys on the retainer for NJ2AS or Cherry ridge club...

law says 30 days..why no consult with lawyers and file law suit? pehaps entire PP requiremend will follow the mental health records...