School shooting in CT

[Red Solo Cup 11]

More on the political correctness angle, or, why the problem isn't the gun laws its the mental health laws:

 

 

UNTIL six years ago, idiots couldn't vote in New Jersey. (Given my home state's politics, this may come as a surprise.) "Idiot", a term inserted into New Jersey's constitution in 1844, referred to mental illness or incapacity. "Idiots" were denied suffrage. The word was replaced with more politic language in 2007. That section of the constitution now reads: "No person who has been adjudicated by a court of competent jurisdiction to lack the capacity to understand the act of voting shall enjoy the right of suffrage." Similar effect, different words.

Richard Codey, the then-president of the state senate, called the persistence of "idiot" in New Jersey's constitution "a disgrace" and inconveniently vague. The constitutions of Arkansas, Iowa, Kentucky, Mississippi, New Mexico and Ohio still refer to "idiots". In 2010, a law replaced the terms "mental retardation", "mentally retarded", "idiot" and "feebleminded" in New Jersey's statutes with "intellectual disability" and "developmental disability".

This week, the New Jersey General Assembly returned to finish the job. The assembly unanimously approved a bill that will, among other things, remove the terms "lunatic", "insane", "unsound mind", and "incompetent" from state statutes and replace those words with different, more carefully worded language. The New Jersey Senate will now consider the bill. It's likely to pass.

The present bill emerged out of the findings of a state commission on law revision. The report is careful, singling out only the instances of terms like "insane" and "unsound mind" that are clearly pejorative, leaving intact certain usages—in criminal statutes, for example—where they carry specific meanings. In one document, the commission writes that removing the phrase "vegetative state" is unnecessary, since it's a "medical term of art" and finding replacement language would be too difficult. But they're clear about other, less artful terms.

The bill will purge the state's statutes of archaic language that has become pejorative, but New Jersey's mentally disabled population might also benefit from clearer, not just kinder language. Words like "idiot" and "lunatic" are hardly terms of art. Their replacements are specially defined. Valerie Vanieri Huttle, the sponsoring legislator, said of the bill, "Removing these offensive terms from our statutes will hopefully reduce the stigma associated with mental health conditions and shift the focus to recovery." That is, perhaps, until the euphemism treadmill makes today's polite words tomorrow's schoolyard taunts. Then the language may have to change yet again.

 

From http://www.economist.com/blogs/johnson/2012/12/statutory-language

[KpdPipes 388]

This was posted on facebook...not sure if it's really Morgan Freeman's thoughts but they're valid...

 

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings....

 

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

 

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

 

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

 

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

 

Damn...frankly i am utterly Amazed at that response from him.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Damn...frankly i am utterly Amazed at that response from him.

 

you'd be surprised how many in hollywood are actually pro 2A

[MikeK77 8]

So on my FB, everyone starting the "this is why guns should be banned speeches. So when I try to explain this isn't the answer, I get a response "so let's say the principal DID have a gun, she would have to had taken someone else's life...how would that solve anything"

 

Are people that blind?

[RedRiverII 0]

Prayers out to the Town and Nation.

[voyager9 3,434]

you'd be surprised how many in hollywood are actually pro 2A

 

The statement is not so much Pro-2A as it is anti-mass media. Given how most of Hollywood is treated by the media that's far from surprising.

[Genewarper111 18]

"UK. Dunblaine School Massacre. 18 kids killed by a Browning Hi Power and a S&W .357 Revolver."

 

Not "by".. "With". by the person, using the gun. The words we use at times like these are not just important, they are critical, including whether we decide to say nothing rather than knee-jerk.

 

This will polarize the various opposition groups and bring them together with every mother in the country. In the UK after Dunblane there was virtually no opposition to the handgun ban. No one cared that the regulatory authorities hadn't done their job on the perpetrator.

 

This tragedy is beyond description, we can't forget that

 

G

 

--------------------------------------------

 

[woodentoe 14]

No mention of the Cumbria massacre in 2010 when a lunatic killed 13 Britons armed with a double barrel break ope. 12 ga shotgun and a bolt action .22

 

All after the semi auto ban and after the handgun ban?

[O-gre 7]

If anyone sells any firearms they own right now you are nuts!

[O-gre 7]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/15/15926718-newtown-gunman-tried-to-buy-rifle-days-before-shooting?lite

[byanymeansnecessary 0]

Not exactly clear thinking there my friend, that's the Cool Aid talking. We live in the land of the cheap excuse, where anguish is turned into a convenient soundbite. Other than the deranged individuals and attention seekers that do things like this, those with the most culpability are those who use the word "guns" to avoid talking about a host of deficiencies in our society that have become worse due to the touchy feely lack of accountability spawned by liberals. Lack of parenting, lack of accountability, oppression of minorities, and most of all, a mental health system that is more concerned about the privacy and the hurt feelings of someone with a mental problem rather than the constitution or the lives of wonderful people and children. Can't talk about mental health because there are "privacy issues". A guy from the NY Times actually said that on the radio in relation to this incident. Really? Privacy issues? REALLY? What about the lives of children?

 

You are saying that WE value our Constitutional rights over the lives of children killed by some mad dog that would kill with whatever was at hand? No, WE consider our constitutional right to protect ourselves and loved ones (and those children) FROM assholes like this guy. Take away my Constitutional rights so that we don't have to embarass the guy with the mental issues because WE MIGHT HURT HIS FEELINGS or he might be discriminated against. That's the approach they will take and that's what you have bought into with your post.

 

These are broken units doing great EVIL. The atheists who set the tone for our society don't believe in a god, so hence, there can't be any evil either, so it must be GUNS. Oh...there's evil out there. Look at China on the same day as this tragedy...more than 20 kids stabbed at a school. How's gun control working for them over there?

mad man with a knife no deaths ,mad man with guns 28 dead big differents

[PeteF 1,044]

mad man with a knife no deaths ,mad man with guns 28 dead big differents

 

Actually no. Mad man with 50 lbs of fertilizer and diesel fuel. Mad man in car plows through crowd. Mad man with Koolaid. Suicide bomber. Catch the drift?

 

You can't stop someone who does not care about their own life.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Pete, some people just don't understand the saying "where there is a will, there is a way". This guy couldnt buy a gun on his own, so his will found a way... what makes people think his will to kill was going to just end at... oh i cant find any guns to use? This guy could have easily waited for school to be out, herds of children flowing out the doors, and a vehicle capable of mowing down masses...

 

I work in a school, and i can call out many different ways to ensure mass murder with out even thinking about guns. Lockdowns and locked doors don't do anything, my school is open access before school starts like 99% of them, i see tons of people walking through the school in the morning before the day starts to drop kids off at classrooms.

[A-Tech 8]

 

you'd be surprised how many in hollywood are actually pro 2A

 

Morgan Freeman is strongly anti-gun. He was more speaking of the media. As for Hollywood, well its pretty funny that most of the cast from both Expendables movies are anti gun...go figure

[Gunrunner26 0]

Excellent point. People bent on mass destruction will always find a way. I fear that stricter gun laws will be an inevitable result of this incident. You have a president with nothing to lose (no reelection) who is basically liberal, along with a congress who will be inundated by calls from parents (rightfully upset and concerned) as well as anti-gun groups, to "control" guns. Under these conditions Congress is bound to relent and some type of new legislation will almost definitely be enacted. Not sure we will see the total confiscation of guns from every citizen, take place. But I do see challenges to 2A. Elimination of internet sales of ammunition, ban on certain kinds of ammunition, ban on "assault type" weapons, further reduction in magazine capacity, perhaps even a ban on all semi-automatic weapons (pistols and Rifles). You have to believe something is going to happen. With the frenzy whipped up by the media, and the liberal climate of today's society and lawmakers I feel gun owners are in for serious trouble. Yes this was a tragedy of monumental proportions and the words stated here are not intended to diminish that fact. I have grand kids in elementary school and my first call was to my own children asking how they were. So I can understand, to some degree, the pain that is going on. As posted before we are all about to be impacted by this senseless act. It is not a matter of if, but when.

[Gunrunner26 0]

CT Medical Examiner just stated the primary weapon used was the Bushmaster.

[PeteF 1,044]

Excellent point. People bent on mass destruction will always find a way. I fear that stricter gun laws will be an inevitable result of this incident. You have a president with nothing to lose (no reelection) who is basically liberal, along with a congress who will be inundated by calls from parents (rightfully upset and concerned) as well as anti-gun groups, to "control" guns. Under these conditions Congress is bound to relent and some type of new legislation will almost definitely be enacted. Not sure we will see the total confiscation of guns from every citizen, take place. But I do see challenges to 2A. Elimination of internet sales of ammunition, ban on certain kinds of ammunition, ban on "assault type" weapons, further reduction in magazine capacity, perhaps even a ban on all semi-automatic weapons (pistols and Rifles). You have to believe something is going to happen. With the frenzy whipped up by the media, and the liberal climate of today's society and lawmakers I feel gun owners are in for serious trouble. Yes this was a tragedy of monumental proportions and the words stated here are not intended to diminish that fact. I have grand kids in elementary school and my first call was to my own children asking how they were. So I can understand, to some degree, the pain that is going on. As posted before we are all about to be impacted by this senseless act. It is not a matter of if, but when.

 

What legislation would stop what happened? I pretty sure that murdering 28 people is on every "It's illegal" list in the US, if that won't stop someone, what makes you think having a ban on 15 round magazines will?

 

The only thing that may stop someone is the thought police.

 

That's the problem, you can THINK whatever you like, until you ACT nothing is illegal. So you want to ban someone because they MAY commit a crime?

[PeteF 1,044]

CT Medical Examiner just stated the primary weapon used was the Bushmaster.

 

You mean the one in the trunk of the car?

[RubberBullets 65]

You mean the one in the trunk of the car?

 

The ME report apparently claims multiple rifle shots for the victims.

 

 

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-shooting-connecticut-examinerbre8be0cg-20121215,0,4517183.story

[vladtepes 1,060]

My wife's a teacher and she says that's also their emergency plan in an active shooter scenario: hide....

 

i told her that's the dumbest bullsh!t i've ever heard. She now knows to flee if possible, fight if necessary and hide only as a last resort.

 

I am certainly no expert.. but in most of these cases it looks like guy flies off the handle and looks quickly for targets to engage... I have to think that maybe there is some use in hiding...

 

in scenario one you hide in the closet... lunatic comes in sees empty classroom... it might be unlikely that he would invest time in searching.. he would probably head on to the next room unless there was a specific target...

 

scenario two you run... with a flock of kids... you really have no idea where the shooter is.. or if there is more than one.. running might be the dumbest thing you could ever do... ever see an animal run from a predator animal? most times it does not end well... running may just create a giant wall of target opportunities..

 

 

in actuality as dumb as it sounds.. hiding might be a pretty good options compared to the alternatives..

[MikeK77 8]

[JackDaWack 2,895]

The ME report apparently claims multiple rifle shots for the victims.

 

 

 

 

http://www.chicagotr...0,4517183.story

 

Do you really think the ME report is out already?

[RubberBullets 65]

Do you really think the ME report is out already?

 

Report as in his claim he made regarding the case NOT the official autopsy report. The Chief ME is directly quoted in the article.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Well, i dunno. They said the rifle was in the car.

 

http://www.foxnews.c...ecticut-school/

 

"The vehicle the suspect drove to the school was registered to his mother. At least three guns were found -- a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, inside the school, and a .223-caliber rifle in the back of a car, authorities said."

[AS350Driver 56]

Well, i dunno. They said the rifle was in the car.

 

http://www.foxnews.c...ecticut-school/

 

"The vehicle the suspect drove to the school was registered to his mother. At least three guns were found -- a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, inside the school, and a .223-caliber rifle in the back of a car, authorities said."

 

Maybe he had more than one rifle. There definitely was one rifle removed from the trunk of the car.

[Soju 153]

 

Are people that blind?

 

Yes.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

While I gave up on the Lame Stream Media a long time ago, this incident just goes to show how truly bad they are. They have turned this horrific event into a three ring circus, reporting any rumor or innuendo with no basis in fact. Then several hours or days later, the story changes. For them it is all about ratings, and apparently they will do anything to come out on top. It disgusts me.

 

I will give kudos to Lt. Paul Vance of the CTSP - he has handled himself professionally and with great decorum throughout. He releases information only when he knows that it is confirmed and the information comes by way of their investigation - not rumor and innuendo.

 

The LSM may as well be playing "Whisper Down the Lane" (hope that reference doesn't escape the younger members).

 

One thing I find interesting - in the LSM's rush to dance in the blood of the innocent victims and direct this to accommodate their own agenda, no one has mentioned the police response time. Not faulting them - it is what it is, and once they were on scene they immediately went into "Active Shooter" mode. Unfortunately, the ten minutes it took them to get there was more than enough time for the evil to manifest. If the response time does come up, you can count on some talking head to point out the use of semi-auto weapons and try to correlate that to the high number of rounds fired. Hell, I'm old, fat and slow and I hate to think how many rounds I could get off with a revolver in ten minutes - but the LSM never let facts deter them. Rant off.

 

I can't even begin to feel the heartbreak that whole community is going through. My thoughts are with them.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[BleedingOrange36 0]

Well, i dunno. They said the rifle was in the car.http://www.foxnews.c...ecticut-school/"The vehicle the suspect drove to the school was registered to his mother. At least three guns were found -- a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, inside the school, and a .223-caliber rifle in the back of a car, authorities said."

I just read an article stating he fired the rifle initially at the first group upon entering the building. Then advanced down the hallway with 4 pistols.... I believe the media is just trying to outdo the previous articles.... The mixed reports are extremely confusing.... I feel the media should have to wait to report until at least some facts are known.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I just read an article stating he fired the rifle initially at the first group upon entering the building. Then advanced down the hallway with 4 pistols.... I believe the media is just trying to outdo the previous articles.... The mixed reports are extremely confusing.... I feel the media should have to wait to report until at least some facts are known.

 

That's basically the point i was making, same as PB. This is a complete sh*t show the media is creating, Wait for the official reports to come out, I hardly doubt the ME has had any time to assess any of the wounds found on any victim other then how many and where.

[Kaiser7 33]

Boss just threatened to fire me today because I'm a gun-rights supporter. This isn't going to go well for us law-abiding citizens...