School shooting in CT

[njpilot 671]

Just heard about this site on the radio this morning.

 

http://ssristories.com/

 

Lots of stories of people on meds or withdrawing from meds and being violent.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Has this really degraded to TIN FOIL hat conspiracy theories???? REALLY??

 

Holy hell if that is the case, man oh man, we might actually be screwed....we look like fools.......

 

 

MODS LOCK THE DAMN THREAD........ITS RUN ITS COURSE...........especially if it gets to tin foil hat time....

 

 

Thank you...now it's getting insulting talking about conspiracy theories. What a joke.

[this_is_nascar 162]

TIN FOIL HAT ON!

 

First my condolences to the families of the dead. I share in their grief.

 

But did any one notice the first reports of the firearms used were GLOCK and Sig?

 

Then all of the sudden it was a Bushmaster.

 

Maybe this was all staged (meaning the firearms changed) to push an AWB.

 

Just a thought.

 

Not sure what you saw, but the initial report mentioned him having all three in his possession.

 

 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[BlueLineFish 615]

It's hard to read when you are blinded by tin foil

[Gunrunner26 0]

This is a no win situation for law abiding gun owners. People are angry, rightfully so, by this senseless act. The shooter is dead, the gun owner is dead, so there is a need by the masses (especially the press) to assess blame. The only thing left to which blame can be assed is the gun! The inanimate object that has now become a symbol for the root of all evil in America. We, as law abiding gun owners, are now guilty by our association with guns! We can argue until we are all blue in the face about our violent society, video games, loss of faith and the list goes on, for a reason to make sense of what occurred. But those arguments will never stand up to the faces of dead children, the crocodile tears of Obama, the liberal media, and a general public sentiment that guns are bad, they can kill, and people who own them (legally) are all out there in the lunatic fringe.

 

Obama, like him or not, is smart and sly. If the US signs the NATO treaty then the US will be at the mercy of what other countries dictate with regards to gun ownership and control, without congressional approval! So no worries, no fight in congress, just sign the document and in the dark of night are rights disappear. With public sentiment squarely behind gun ban advocates there is little anyone can do except wait and see how far the bans go. Will owners be grandfathered, or will they have to turn in their arms. Will pistols also be banned? The fallout from this one 30 minute act of violence is about to shape the American landscape, with respect to gun control (banishment), for generations to come. I am not advocating we as legal law abiding gun owners simply give up, yes we need to fight to maintain our rights, but I am not optimistic about our chances given the climate that currently exists. The press is against us, the general population is against us, parents are against us, and once supportive legislators will be hard pressed to support us, less they be labeled insensitive toward the deaths of children. I fear this uphill battle may just be too steep a slope to overcome. On December 14, 2012 America lost two of its most precious possessions, innocent young children, and our freedoms.

[remixer 1,645]

This has zero to do with Tin Foil Hats..

 

Its not a conspiracy.... its a discussion of the tragedy and how politicians might attempt to take advantage of it

[raz-0 1,259]

His tears might be real. As much as i dislike him, this did have an effect on all americans especially those who have children

 

I know tons of people who found this very upsetting, and very few of them cried over it. None of them cried so bad that they looked like they were working on a case of pinkeye. Either he has some bad allergies, or he finds the vick's vapor rub exceptionally irritating.

[BlueLineFish 615]

The tin foil hat came from the embarrassing first post on this page

[remixer 1,645]

The tin foil hat came from the embarrassing first post on this page

 

Yes saw that...

[Arbelest 29]

Fox news has an article saying texas teachers can ccw in school, at least some people get it

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,404721,00.html

[raz-0 1,259]

Obama, like him or not, is smart and sly. If the US signs the NATO treaty then the US will be at the mercy of what other countries dictate with regards to gun ownership and control, without congressional approval!

 

You so vastly don't understand the issue it is amazing. One, the president can sign a treaty all he wants. It does not give it the force of law within the United states. It has to be ratified by the senate. To be ratified by the senate, they need a 2/3 majority. If there were a 2/3 majority for eliminating the 2nd amendment, they would simply vote to eliminate the second amendment. The only way that you could even possibly imagine a treaty making the difference between getting 2/3 and not getting 2/3 is if it gives us something exceptionally desirable. NATO has no small arms treaty proposed. They do have commentary on how existing NATO programs facilitate the proposed goals of the porposed UN treaty. The UN had to break all the initial rules on creating a draft to even get past the first step of the process (i.e. having a ratified draft to vote on). That suffered the same fate over the summer as the draft committee suffered for years, which is that the large arms exporting nations said no, and it can't pass without them. After Obama's re-election, the US signed off on a motion to try to ratify the draft again. This is basically a vote to start the whole process which has gone nowhere for YEARS over again. No version proposed to date lines anyone's pockets or expands their authority or influence in any way that makes this magically attractive to US politicians.

[KramD52 0]

I fear the anti's got us by the short hairs this time. They are going to ride the coat tails of this tragic incident right into another weapons ban. This is all about getting their anti gun agenda passed and if it can't be done this time, it never will be. For them it's pretty much now or never as the timing couldn't be better for them. Its bad enough that some twisted f*ck gets his name emblazoned into the annuls of history for the evil despicable acts that he had committed and the families that he destroyed. But then to top it off, the politicians with their typical knee jerk response to punish millions of law abiding citizens by passing some despotic legislation that would not have prevented this tragedy in the first place. The vast majority of these mass murderers are suicidal and kill themselves in the end. Are politicians really that stupid to believe that if no guns were available that these same individuals wouldn't have used another means to achieve their ultimate goal? No they aren't, but they will convince a large portion of the public to believe it by using their emotions to sway their thought process.......with the mass media's help of course. Batten down the hatches, the storm is fast approaching and its going to be a big one.

[diamondd817 827]

Fox news has an article saying texas teachers can ccw in school, at least some people get it

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,404721,00.html

 

Texas is just a great American State. They don't fool around. I want to live in Texas.

[Gunrunner26 0]

You so vastly don't understand the issue it is amazing. One, the president can sign a treaty all he wants. It does not give it the force of law within the United states. It has to be ratified by the senate. To be ratified by the senate, they need a 2/3 majority. If there were a 2/3 majority for eliminating the 2nd amendment, they would simply vote to eliminate the second amendment. The only way that you could even possibly imagine a treaty making the difference between getting 2/3 and not getting 2/3 is if it gives us something exceptionally desirable. NATO has no small arms treaty proposed. They do have commentary on how existing NATO programs facilitate the proposed goals of the porposed UN treaty. The UN had to break all the initial rules on creating a draft to even get past the first step of the process (i.e. having a ratified draft to vote on). That suffered the same fate over the summer as the draft committee suffered for years, which is that the large arms exporting nations said no, and it can't pass without them. After Obama's re-election, the US signed off on a motion to try to ratify the draft again. This is basically a vote to start the whole process which has gone nowhere for YEARS over again. No version proposed to date lines anyone's pockets or expands their authority or influence in any way that makes this magically attractive to US politicians.

Thank you for thet insightful information. It is greatly appreciated.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

If you want some real tin foil hat action read this article. If they have their facts correct this is one of the oddest coincidence's ever.

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/libor-scandal-grows-as-the-fathers-of-two-mass-murderers-were-to-testify

[Bob2222 317]

This has zero to do with Tin Foil Hats..

 

Its not a conspiracy.... its a discussion of the tragedy and how politicians might attempt to take advantage of it

 

I'm also not sure about the tinfoil hats. I don't know how they can write a law that bans autoloaders like the AR without banning autoloaders like the 1911 and Browning shotgun. Listing "evil features" hasn't done what they wanted. And I really believe that Feinstein would like to ban anything more advanced than the rifle that Hawkeye carried in "The Last of the Mohicans", just as long as she can have her own security guards equipped with MP5s.

 

November proved that you really can fool all of the people all of the time, and the politicians' responses to this scare the willies out of me. I'm not at all confident that Boehner won't just bend over about this, too.

[benboga37 2]

Wow...I hope this really puts everything in perspective. What's really important. I can't imagine not having my daughter now. I would be destroyed if anything happened to her. I am so sorry for your loss.

Thank you BLF and bulpup and for everyone who has realized what is important. I held my daughter for 12 hours not wanting to give her up to the doctors and nurses. When morning came, an older nurse came to talk and reach out to me, who gave in to my request to give my wife and I, supplies so we can bathe and dress up our daughter one last time.

 

So for all who still has the chance, hug the ones you love and be thankful for each moment.

For the ones who have forgotten, remember.

 

I hope this clip to put it all into perspective.

[Old School 611]

I find it silly an irresponsible that people would even put forth a notion that the responding LEO's or those investigating this horrific tragedy would have the

for thought and premeditated mindset to show up with specific weapons to plant on the scene to sway public opinion on way or another.........

 

I feel foolish just typing it..........NOW can you see how IDIOTIC that looks to others.......it paints a picture of gun owners as nutcases..... GET IT ?!

 

This forum and others like it, whether good or bad are the FACE of gun ownership at times.......put your BEST face forward.....not drivel....

 

I'm punching out of this thread....

 

Punch out and leave your guns at the gate...

 

How naive...

 

And we were never in Cambodia...

[Old School 611]

I think a school Marshall would be a great idea employing retired LEO/military

 

Armed trained citizen, teacher on a stipend. Keep the cost down.

[njpilot 671]

No gun used here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

 

The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, which killed 38 elementary schoolchildren, two teachers, and four other adults; at least 58 people were injured. The perpetrator killed his wife first, and later committed suicide in his last explosion. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–14 years of age^[1]) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in United States history.

The bomber was the school board treasurer Andrew Kehoe, 55, who was angry after being defeated in the spring 1926 election for township clerk. He had a reputation for difficulty on the school board and in personal dealings. He was thought to have planned his "murderous revenge" after the public defeat. For much of the next year, a neighbor noticed Kehoe had stopped working on his farm and thought he might be planning suicide. During that period, Kehoe carried out steps in his plan to destroy the school and his farm by explosives.

Kehoe's wife was ill with tuberculosis and he had stopped making mortgage payments; he was under pressure for foreclosure. Some time between May 16 and the morning of May 18, 1927, Kehoe murdered his wife by hitting her on the head. On the morning of May 18 about 8:45, he exploded incendiary devices in his house and farm buildings, setting them on fire and destroying them.

Almost simultaneously, an explosion devastated the north wing of the school building, killing many schoolchildren. Kehoe had used a timed detonator to ignite dynamite and hundreds of pounds of incendiary pyrotol, which he had secretly planted inside the school over the course of many months. As rescuers gathered at the school, Kehoe drove up, stopped, and used a rifle to detonate dynamite inside his shrapnel-filled truck, killing himself, theschool superintendent, and several others nearby, as well as injuring more bystanders. During rescue efforts at the school, searchers discovered an additional 500 pounds (230 kg) of unexploded dynamite and pyrotol planted throughout the basement of the south wing. Kehoe had apparently intended to blow up and destroy the whole school.

Investigators later said that if he had sold unused farm equipment and material at his farm, he could have gained enough money to pay his mortgage.

[Old School 611]

I am only back to the thread because I was quoted....however,

 

Cambodia ?????????

 

* I *, am naive?

 

To put forth the idea that this tragic event is somehow some vast government conspiracy, that the responding LEO units and follow up CSI teams, have somehow manipulated the forensics, have manipulated the firearms used, have grossly exaggerated the event, all for political gain, is unfathomable to me that someone would even type it.........

 

To do so in my opinion is foolish and paints a VERY negative picture of firearms owners by even hinting at it......my goodness, doesn't it in hindsight seem even just a LITTLE irrational to put that out there?

 

Do you not agree that posting something like that on a public forum makes us look just a wee bit wacky????

 

Sorry man, we TOTALLY disagree on this one.....

 

Just noting conflicting reports.... What do you believe?

 

Now Nicky I'm checking out! I'll get bashed. But no sheeple here...

[Texan 1]

Sad that this event has already been forgotten by most media organizations as of Saturday. All I hear is gun control with a mention of the shooting to stiffen their point on gun control. The event and the media reactions have been sad across the board. O' and I agree with certain aspects of gun control. I don't agree in overlooking events for the sake of pushing an agenda.

[KpdPipes 388]

Just noting conflicting reports.... What do you believe?

 

Now Nicky I'm checking out! I'll get bashed. But no sheeple here...

 

What di I Belive? that the news media is completely incompetent and unreliable, and will report ANYTHING without bothering to fact check just to be "First"

[raz-0 1,259]

Man, you guys are defeatist.

 

 

Ok, my perspective on this. Yes, we are going to have to fight that fight for the bajillionth time. Welcome to being the group someone is trying to oppress, get used to it. Even if we get all the favorable court rulings in the world, this will be the situation. Deal with it.

 

 

However, there are fundamental processes in effect for what this issue can turn into. There's a reason the battle cry for the antis had been we must do SOMETHING rather than anything specific. Proposing a return to the national 55mph speed limit to prevent this tragedy isn't really something that could ever possibly have traction. I know that is an absurd example, but less absurd is the example of proposing we close the black powder loophole to prevent another tragedy of this type. The black powder loophole is actually something the antis have on their agenda, and is not something that will be proposed because it also simply makes no sense, not just logically, but on the basic level of being emotionally pleasing. They have to come up with something that is emotionally pleasing.

 

 

 

Why do they have to come up with something emotionally pleasing? Well because gun control is not an issue that people get out and vote for. The anti cause is something that only gets consistently backed as an issue by a very small number of ideologues. Gun control IS something people get out and vote against. Why is this? Because of the monkeysphere. The short explanation of that is you can only really care in detail about a relatively small number of people. Google it for a more thorough explanation. People get upset about it when it is the 24-7 newscycle becuase they project the issue onto the people they know. There will be no trial, without a copycat or two, this thing will not be the major headline in a month because it will have gone form sensational to boring dissection of reports. We'll be talking about a missing hot blonde, who's banging whom or divorcing whom, or even just making way for sweeps and an infinite supply of american idol so that people can erroneously believe that the thing relevant to their monkeysphere is celebrity. THe president said it was ok to kill toddlers in the middle east as part of day to day business. The gun owners are the only ones making a stink at the moment, and that is largely because it is convenient, not because we know dead afghanis as people and grieve for them in our day to day lives. The RKBA crowd gets out there and votes because the legislation will affect them directly, a monkeysphere size of one. This will not turn a red state blue or a blue state red, especially not so over the long term.

 

 

 

The biggest threat would be the GOP throwing gun owners under the bus to get their wishlist for the fiscal cliff BS. The only issue with that is all the chatter has any gun control bill showing up in the new session, not the old session, so there is no forced urgency, which is half of why you would give something up easily.

 

 

So what this means is that the threat isn't about a wave of consensus, but rather back and forth between lobbyists and politicians, and what will be at risk are things that "so you are pro school shooting" can be used as a threat and carry any weight.

 

 

Magazine capacity limitations are probably on the table. They aren't clearly protected in cases to date. Logically irrelevant, but emotionally appealing. However there is an existing huge supply and a manufacturing infrastructure preceding any effective date. Short of drafting ex post facto legislation, you will still have a huge flood.

 

 

Revisions to NICS are on the table, especially since the NRA was willing to give ground previously if they thought they were getting something. Depending on the revision proposed it might even be relevant to this instance. An example of something I see being hard to fight would be delivering states free bags of money to get into compliance on mental health records reporting and ongoing sums to remain compliant, and funding it by increasing the excise tax on firearms.

 

 

Face to face transfers could be on the table as one could argue that prohibited persons are a much higher risk for illegal sales across state lines, however it would have changed this event not one bit.

 

 

Today I heard some vague crap about "exceptionally deadly" special bullets used. We'll see if they actually mean something other than a rifle round. But this is another area not clearly protected that can be fought emotionally rather than logically. Or if he was running around with a bunch of already discontinued zombie max ammo. IF we are lucky, maybe it will just be extreme shock ammo and we can stop listening to idiots pushing magic bullets and just wind up listening to people complain about bogus ammo nobody should care about.

[raz-0 1,259]

To put forth the idea that this tragic event is somehow some vast government conspiracy, that the responding LEO units and follow up CSI teams, have somehow manipulated the forensics, have manipulated the firearms used, have grossly exaggerated the event, all for political gain, is unfathomable to me that someone would even type it.........

 

To do so in my opinion is foolish and paints a VERY negative picture of firearms owners by even hinting at it......my goodness, doesn't it in hindsight seem even just a LITTLE irrational to put that out there?

 

Do you not agree that posting something like that on a public forum makes us look just a wee bit wacky????

 

Sorry man, we TOTALLY disagree on this one.....

 

Hey you left out doing all that with rabid reporters swarming over everything trying to make more news out of anything they could. It's not like the press didn't get there for a couple of days. Or evne the local LEOs. I mean heck they must all hate gun owners so much they were willing to let 20 kids get murdered to show them..

 

Seriously, some people. I thiik we are on the same page about this bit Nick.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

Did this guy leave a note or video of his reasons for doing what he did?

 

Over the weekend I remember reading that they recovered enough evidence at the home to understand how and why he did it but they did not elaborate.

 

Re: the aluminum foil, at least this thread is in Bucket 3, shielded from public view. Have there been any new accounts (of the undercover journalist persuasion) since the massacre?

[BlueLineFish 615]

 

Thank you BLF and bulpup and for everyone who has realized what is important. I held my daughter for 12 hours not wanting to give her up to the doctors and nurses. When morning came, an older nurse came to talk and reach out to me, who gave in to my request to give my wife and I, supplies so we can bathe and dress up our daughter one last time.

 

So for all who still has the chance, hug the ones you love and be thankful for each moment.

For the ones who have forgotten, remember.

 

I hope this clip to put it all into perspective.

 

I have also experienced the loss of a child. Not my own but my 2 year old cousin who died of brain cancer. To sit in a hospital and watch someone so small die in front of you is haunting to say the least. I saw his parents do the same as you one last time before he was taken away by doctors and nurses. That night haunted me for months. I now have a daughter of my own and she made me realize that nothing else matters besides her and her well being. I truly am sorry for your loss and wish you nothing but happiness the rest of your days for nobody should have to experience the loss of a child.

[johnp 45]

To put forth the idea that this tragic event is somehow some vast government conspiracy, that the responding LEO units and follow up CSI teams, have somehow manipulated the forensics, have manipulated the firearms used, have grossly exaggerated the event, all for political gain, is unfathomable to me that someone would even type it.........

 

To do so in my opinion is foolish and paints a VERY negative picture of firearms owners by even hinting at it......my goodness, doesn't it in hindsight seem even just a LITTLE irrational to put that out there?

 

Do you not agree that posting something like that on a public forum makes us look just a wee bit wacky????

 

 

So because something is unfathomable to you, that means no one else can talk about it?

 

As someone else pointed out technically bucket3 isn't a public subforum you need to be a registered member to view it.

 

What kind of super secret brady bunch spies do you think are reading through 18pages of nonsense, just to be able to pick out a gem to paint us ALL as "nutjobs".

[PDM 91]

I truly believe that the NRA will need to change tack on this one. It is a game changer. I was surprised to hear Schumer spout more than the usual false platitudes about the 2A. He came out and said that the gun control crowd needs to accept that they can't take away everyone's guns, and that we need compromise. I'm sure NRA won't use this opportunity to make any concessions, but they would be wise to. Specifically, there is no way all semi-automatic firearms will be banned. We all know that an "assault weapons ban" will be meaningless -- collapsible stock, flash hider, etc are irrelevant.

 

That leaves one topic for discussion -- magazine capacity. I know most people on this board don't see it this way, but if there is one feature that can at least arguably be said to be related to possibly mitigate if not prevent these tragedies, it is magazine capacity. No gun organization, to my knowledge, has ever questioned the antis on their universally proposed 10 round limit. It is time for the NRA to have that discussion. Why 10 rounds? The vast majority of modern semi-autos, widely owned for sporting and self-defense purposes, hold more than 10 rounds. If the NRA could "counter" with a proposed ban of anything above 20, or even 15, so as to have as little impact as possible on current gun owners, with a well reasoned position as to why that makes sense, it would go a long way to deflecting the avalanche of criticism being directed the NRA's way. Even A rated Senators are now supporting this type of measure. The NRA needs to be smart and get out in front of this issue, and offer some concession. And, as part of any legislation, nationwide CCW rights, INCLUDING in states like NY, NJ, CA and MD, need to be addressed as does improved mental health screening and background checks. If training requirements are on the table I am guessing many Americans would be ok with, if not welcome, giving more people the opportunity to defend themselves from horrors like this.

 

The NRA needs to be smart and think outside their usual box. I doubt they will.

[ruger9 0]

Here's my "compromise".... I'll accept all the current gun control laws, if you DO NOT PASS ANY MORE.