NRA Press Conference 10:45 AM 12/21

[PeteF 1,044]

Marlboro Twp just announced a cop in every school beginning Jan 1..also putting out feelers for overhauling entry doors..hope this picks up momentum..NRA at least gave JoeBi something to chew on

 

I'm glad to hear that there will be a responsible person with the means to stop an intruder, be it a cop or not.

I'm not so sure about the door thing however. If reporting is correct, BIG IF, the Ct wackjob entered through a window he shot out.

What should we do make all the school windows bullet proof?

There are too many entrances to a school to make security entries practical.

[voyager9 3,434]

BTW, I think it was a pretty terrible train wreck. They will get ridiculed left and right, the nightly shows will have a fricking field day with them.

 

And so it begins..

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57560479/nra-guns-in-schools-would-protect-students/

[tony357 386]

I joined and it wont let me post.. Our schools have armed police officers in them and they have actually doubled them up after the shootings..

[fapipa 3]

Yes, but in other cases it didn't work (eg Virginia Tech). Also, there needs to be a way from discouraging people with mentally ill people living in the home from owning guns. I'd like to see a law in place enforcing that. I know others disagree, but the topic should at least have been raised during this press conference.

 

Such a system will never be entirely reliable unless it is applied in a very invasive way. In my opinion it is better to err on the side of caution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union

[H.M. Murdock 0]

http://nraschoolshield.com

 

So THAT's why they waited so long to respond. They had to register the domain name!

 

Transcript

http://m.washingtonp...8036_story.html

 

Thank you sir

[Caine 147]

They really should've taken questions at the end. Made them look scared IMHO. If Pratt from GOA can go on Morgan's show and hold his own quite well, the NRA big wigs should've been able to take on a handful of questions to hammer home their point.

[voyager9 3,434]

They really should've taken questions at the end.

 

Probably would have been a question about the Fiscal Cliff..

[Caine 147]

hah probably

[Vlad G 345]

I will again remind you to NOT wait for the NRA to do the work. You should be personally involved with more then a membership fee. If you are not contacting your elected representatives, you just laying back and waiting to be screwed.

 

Get involved.

[jrfly3006 42]

 

 

I'm glad to hear that there will be a responsible person with the means to stop an intruder, be it a cop or not.

I'm not so sure about the door thing however. If reporting is correct, BIG IF, the Ct wackjob entered through a window he shot out.

What should we do make all the school windows bullet proof?

There are too many entrances to a school to make security entries practical.

I think theyre looking more along the lines of shatterproof glass and doors that can be "panic" locked..still no specifics mentioned..

 

As for the video game thing ..yes it was lame..but it was an attempt to get people thinking about options other than gun control..they know what they're doing...and by the response here it sounds like some are more worried about not being able to play call of duty than losing their AR's...

[papercutninja 24]

This actually slightly genius. Basically, the NRA has gotten the last word. Think about it, NOTHING is gonna be happening anywhere for the next two weeks, with Christmas and New Years. Then? After New Years comes the fiscal cliff, which Repubs and Dems are STILL fighting about. The NRA just presented a reasonable and unarguable "solution" just in time for the anti-gunners to forget about this whole situation. The populace is going to be too busy with the holidays to give a shit anymore.

[Candide 0]

I'm all for removing the gun free zone crap and allowing teachers to carry if they want. I'd go so far as to give them money towards a firearm that will be used for carrying. I think that anyone who will be carrying at the school gets bonus money like a coach does. Maybe 2 to 3 thousand. To get this they have to train a week every year. The schools are closed all summer, utilize the empty schools as a training ground. We are paying the teachers all year anyway. Make this entirely voluntary.

 

Issue 1 I see from this is that if the teacher leaves the classroom to respond to a situation it leaves the kids unattended while potentially armed shooters are roaming the school.

 

While a cop or an armed guard is a great idea, whose going to pay for all that? Salary, benefits, pension all add up quickly.

[JayWilling 33]

They piss away billions on the TSA...take enough officers to man the schools from TSA...or one of the other budgets. Hell, just skip one arms shipment to africa and we saved enough to pay for security for all schools for several years.

[Luso 6]

Cue this jerk

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/michael-steele-nra-presser-was-disturbing-85409.html?ml=po_r

 

 

I had mixed feelings about the presser.

For one, I thought holding off while the tempers flared was a good thing, the timing of doing it on a friday before christmas also smart.

I thought it was good to provide a solution, not just generic well wishes.

What I didn't like was the path of blaming video games, movies, and a succession of other things for the violence itself. This is just as non-sensical as the people blaming the guns.

I also did not like that the solution is for the NRA to petition congress for money to pay cops to be in schools. We don't have the money, especially in NJ, to pay several thousand additional individuals with bloated pensions to now patrol our schools.

They should have just said the NRA would use its funding to actively train and certify teachers, administrators, supervisors, or volunteers, who undergo thorough background checks, to have the ability to carry in the schools. No need to pay someone a 6 figure salary and a pension to, for 99.9% of them, do absolutely nothing.

[johnott 5]

As for NJ Senator Lautenberg, he wasted no time in issuing his inane comments on the NRA's plan...

 

Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., in a statement after the press conference, called LaPierre's plan "reckless."

"It is beyond belief that following the Newtown tragedy, the National Rifle Association's leaders want to fill our communities with guns and arm more Americans," he said.

 

Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz2FiWYrT82

 

 

I'm beginning to think he (Lautenberg) is mentally ill. Perhaps we should be watching him? Obviously, no plan supported by the NRA is going to get any positive comment from the anti-gun community. They are not willing to listen to any other ideas but their own. They are completely closed minded.

 

(I didn't vote for him either and I never will.)

[bhunted 887]

Yea, but if you noticed, they didn't bring up current first person shooters like COD... They brought up crap games that constitute heinous crimes and senseless murder types. Like the one shooting kindergarteners. Grand Theft Auto, etc... Those are What the Frack games. As much as I like first person shooters like COD, I do not like those others. And shame on parents that let the kids have them with comments like, "oh, they are just video games"... So they know they have them and don't educate them on right or wrong? Granted, a smart kid may know as we adults are suppose to. But don't for one fooking minute tell me every parent has a clue, because they can give a ratz arse what their kids are doing as long as their out of their hair!

Not all parents, but I've seen more than not.

 

Then you have parents like my sis-in-law that won't let my niece watch any violence. Even shows like Cops. I said why not? They need to know who protects them and from what. Blah!

 

Bah! I'm going off on a tangent again... Ugh.

 

BTW, I think it was a pretty terrible train wreck. They will get ridiculed left and right, the nightly shows will have a fricking field day with them. The side trip into video games was idiotic, and pointless. Is not that I don't agree with the message they were trying to send, but damn it ... 3 old white guys lecturing on video games and movies? If that doesn't look out of touch I don't know what does.

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[Z71 4]

the board of ed in my town(marlboro) voted the other night to have armed patrols in all the schools in town during school hours starting in january..with the blessing of the mayor and the pd..

they reason the cost is out wieghed by the safety gained.. kinda like" if it saves one life" type deal........

[Kaiser7 33]

I don't know, I've played videogames my whole life, and airsofted for a long time.

 

Actually, airsoft is what taught me trigger discipline, since no one in my family shoots to teach me, I learned how to safely handle my airsoft gun when in staging, or other places.

 

To blame video games is just as stupid as blaming guns. The only effect media may have is the fact that we've had a societal shift where we no longer value human life, I'm not sure why that is, but for all I know, it could be due to that stuff, they should study it.

[matty 810]

Are things generally slower for PDs during school hours? Those are also times when responsible people are at work. I know its preferred druggie burglar time (at least after 12:00 noon) but it might not be that much of a stretch to have a car in front of the main entrance for a few hours each day, or have an SRO/retired cop/veteran. There was a big hue and cry when metal detected and security guards were introduced in citified schools on the 70s, IIRC. I doubt there will be this tme

[Luso 6]

I went to high school in Manalapan, one of the safer suburbs you can find, and graduated almost 10 years ago. Our school had an on duty, armed cop who wore plain clothes at all times and we knew him by name. Then again, the police station is literally next door to the high school.

 

I just don't like the angle of the NRA promoting a big government, big expense solution to a simple problem. It flies against what I would imagine most NRA members would believe in, and costs a ton of money.

 

Teachers don't work for over 25% of the year. Have a few of them take a 1 or 2 day course, pass a serious background/mental health check, then have them CC on a secret rotation that only the principal knows. Make it voluntary even, I am sure a few per school would be willing, especially the non-unionized admins who don't have to answer to their reps.

 

And again, blaming video games is so weak. Parents should regulate what they think their children should and should not see. If your child can not handle something, it's a parent's responsibility to recognize that and isolate it. Not the government.

 

Someone explained this to me yesterday in what I thought was a very salient way. I'll butcher it, so i will just copy and paste. Sure it's a little preachy on religion and abortion, but the underlying message about legislating our problems away is what resonated with me:

 

 

We live in an age of moral relativism that, having no foundation on which to stand, is rapidly descending into nihilism - the absence of morality or any justification for it. I'm going to leave the shooter's intentions alone for the time, as I'm sure those will be discussed at length for weeks.I'm talking about nihilism not just in the shooter, but in the broader culture that attempts to understand these horrific events without a moral reference point. In the aftermath, we attempt to get more and more legalistic, bureaucratic, and technocratic to solve problems that can't be legislated away.

These events are products of sick, evil people in an increasingly sick culture that has no stomach for "outdated" concepts like absolute right and wrong. We believe if we could just pass enough well-worded laws, we could eliminate this behavior from society. We treat these tragedies as outputs, thinking that we can just tinker with the inputs enough to get our desired results.

For God's sake, the bodies were still warm and we were already talking about piles upon piles of statistics, as if the problem of violent gun crime could be solved mathematically with some study or Congressional inquiry. I'm afraid that, absent the presence of morality in our discussions of these murders, we have no tools to solve the underlying problems except legalism and policy making. People will keep fixating on the problems with guns because we've become woefully inadequate at talking about problems inherent in humanity.

It always amuses me in pitying way when I hear people retreat even further into nihilism after an event like this by making that old appeal to the "Argument of Evil" which asks, "If there truly is a good god, why does he allow such evil deeds?" As if the very presence of evil invalidates the possibility or under-pinning for good!

Forgive my frustration, but what right do we have to even speak about evil in our society? We are so immersed in violence, greed, sex, instant gratification, and materialism that we've lost all sense of what evil even looks like. To know evil, you must first know good. And while we work ourselves into a righteous huff over "evil" for 2% of the year when these disgusting acts occur, for the other 98% we desperately try to rebel against all forms of conventional morality - that cramps our style, doesn't it?

A child one minute before passing through the birth canal can have a pair of surgical scissors put through his or her brain without society batting an eye. A fully formed, breathing, crying, desperate, helpless baby who is the result of a botched abortion has no entitlement to life in parts of this "enlightened" Western world. And we talk about "evil"?

Government officials pass guns to cartels to slaughter civilians, and we get to talk about "evil"?

Corrupt businessmen get to use their connections to the power brokers in Washington to access public funds to bail out their billion dollar corporations (who went broke in part due to unbridled greed), and we sit here and talk about evil?

We can start talking about "evil" when we as a society find our lost sense of "good". But we can't relegate morality to the fringes, then demand to know where God was."

[johnp 45]

Anyone else think that the teachers unions are going to have a problem with guns at their workplace?

[this_is_nascar 162]

I watched the press conference. It could have been better as far as I'm concerned. The things that bothered me the most.

 

- They should have taken questions at the end.

- He should have been more prepared in delivering the speech. He could have done a better job in knowing what he was going to say, rather than relying on the script so much.

- The entire video games, movies, TV references were just ridiculous. It took away most, if not all, credibility and made him, the NRA and the supporters look like *ssholes.

 

He should have spent some time talking about some of the known loopholes in the process and acknowledge that improvements need to be made. The best line, which will probably become my new signature was the "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". As far as an armed guard in every school, I'm fine with that. It certainly gives the staff and students a fighting chance. As he said, we have armed guards protecting just about every other aspect of our lives, why not our children.

[vladtepes 1,060]

when you look at things like movies... media... video games... when you bring up things like lack of religion.. you are simply grasping at straws.. trying to explain unexplainable evil.... does a strong belief in religion stop terrorists from walking into open air markets and blowing themselves up? Did a lack of video games stop people like Ted Bundy?

 

here is the harshest of reality... sometimes evil lives.. and it breathes.. and you can't explain it.. its not because of a shooting video game.. a love of violent music.. or a passion for guns... the answer is far simpler than that... and that answer is there is no answer... we waste a whole hell of a lot of time trying to figure out things that have no answer... sometimes you can't predict or stop violence.. it just happens..

 

we look at events like this and say he was crazy.. he shouldn't have been around guns... he was locked up reclusive in the basement all day... we did not live with that individual day in and day out to know them... to understand the daily dynamic.. my guess is there are a whole lot of people living right now that fit that same profile... some of them may be ticking time bombs.. others may just be a little off... and then you have your classic serial killer... the one that all the neighbors talk about as being such a surprise... oh.. he was so nice.. its such a shock...

 

the truth is that there might not have been ANYTHING that could have stopped this.. and there might not be ANYTHING to stop the next one...

if there was a simple answer daily acts of terrorism would not be alive and well in other nations..

 

the truth is if someone is hell bent on death.. pain... disruption...

the gun only represents one means in achieving that...

 

this point really needs to be talked about.. and driven home... because the CORE anti gun argument is safety.... it is my opinion that safety is only a temporary condition.. one that is not guaranteed in a society of over 300 million people...

[MarkWVU02 47]

Well said

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Anyone else think that the teachers unions are going to have a problem with guns at their workplace?

yes and no, depends. In NJ i would heavily side on yes. BUT, what can they do if the courts back a decision to allow carry in schools as a 2a right.

[johnp 45]

yes and no, depends. In NJ i would heavily side on yes. BUT, what can they do if the courts back a decision to allow carry in schools as a 2a right.

 

IDK, strike...refuse to teach?

[SgtToadette 59]

Someone else had posted this elsewhere and I don't think I could have expressed myself any better:

 

All they had to do was say "we believe gun policy should be determined by facts, research, past experience and social science, instead of knee-jerk, emotional reactions."

Instead they just rambled on about nonsensical boogy-man security issues, blaming video games and movies (literally - they did this), pornography, and Mortal Kombat.

As a gun owner and freedom advocate, I am disappointed in them...

 

The message they delivered was so ******* pathetic for so many reasons I wanted to puke. As an organization, they should have had this speech written years ago, and only needed to fill in the blanks. You can tell this was a 3:00 AM "oh **** that's due tomorrow?" type of thing.

The most laughable part is how they took exactly 0 steps to convince the middle ground, which should have been their target audience. Those who disagree with them will always disagree, those who agree will agree, and they alienated the middle people by talking about Mortal Kombat and pron.

 

I would have worded is a little more eloquently but I think a good point is made. Considering the scale of this mess I something far more eloquent and persuasive.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

I didn't watch the press conference, didn't listen to it either.....and from what I gather that was a good decision....since from what I gather, it sounded, and came across as a total train wreck.

 

Blaming video games? Seriously? ......sounds like a fuddy crusty old gun culture 0.5 type..........

[Combat Auto 174]

^{I read the transript - didn't see the video...I was suprised so many of you are unhappy about what they said...I thought they made many good points about putting armed gaurds at schools...Why wouldn't we do that as a (last) point of defense for the kids...}

 

^{I also like the comments about videao games and mental health - they MUST point this out to enlarge the conversation...Otherwise, the gun cammunity alone will be asked to make all the concessions...}

 

^{Besides, what did you expect them to say? If they gave concessions you wouldn't like that...}

 

^{Net Net - I was impressed with their approach...Real short term solution to harden the target...Leading the training...Poining out the "real" root causes - and willing to talk more about longer term solutions...}

 

^{The media, they will say horrible things no matter what the NRA did today - unless of course the NRA totally capitulated...They are in a no win and I think did well...}

 

^{Not sure why our society has issues with armed guard in schools - for now it is the best thing we can do in the short term.}

[SgtToadette 59]

when you look at things like movies... media... video games... when you bring up things like lack of religion.. you are simply grasping at straws.. trying to explain unexplainable evil.... does a strong belief in religion stop terrorists from walking into open air markets and blowing themselves up? Did a lack of video games stop people like Ted Bundy?

 

here is the harshest of reality... sometimes evil lives.. and it breathes.. and you can't explain it.. its not because of a shooting video game.. a love of violent music.. or a passion for guns... the answer is far simpler than that... and that answer is there is no answer... we waste a whole hell of a lot of time trying to figure out things that have no answer... sometimes you can't predict or stop violence.. it just happens..

 

we look at events like this and say he was crazy.. he shouldn't have been around guns... he was locked up reclusive in the basement all day... we did not live with that individual day in and day out to know them... to understand the daily dynamic.. my guess is there are a whole lot of people living right now that fit that same profile... some of them may be ticking time bombs.. others may just be a little off... and then you have your classic serial killer... the one that all the neighbors talk about as being such a surprise... oh.. he was so nice.. its such a shock...

 

the truth is that there might not have been ANYTHING that could have stopped this.. and there might not be ANYTHING to stop the next one...

if there was a simple answer daily acts of terrorism would not be alive and well in other nations..

 

the truth is if someone is hell bent on death.. pain... disruption...

the gun only represents one means in achieving that...

 

this point really needs to be talked about.. and driven home... because the CORE anti gun argument is safety.... it is my opinion that safety is only a temporary condition.. one that is not guaranteed in a society of over 300 million people...