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Executive Action On Gun Control

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Hello Everyone,

I just saw this announcement on the NRA Facebook page today and wanted to pass it along. Apparently Obama is going to take executive action when it comes to gun control. They are not saying what he is going to do just that he is planning on using it. Please pass this along!

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/276313-biden-obama-prepared-to-take-executive-action-on-gun-control

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He can't make laws or change them using EO's, the supreme court ruled that during the Truman presidency... I'm sure he will try though. They upheld that is the responsibility of our legislators. Right now they are trying to figure out what they can do.... as in how they can get around that ruling.

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I hope I don't sound like I'm wearing a tin-foil yarmulke here, but after looking at those 18 bills in the New Jersey Legislature, including the one where inspectors could come to my house when I buy a gun... I honestly feel like we are at a tipping point. This could really be the end of America as we know it.

 

Not just the Second Amendment, but the Forth, the First.

 

I want my kids to have the same freedoms I have and that desire is so darn powerful that I think these politicians have no idea what kind of wrath they are about to uncork from the electorate.

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My guess is they are going to reclassify semi-automatic firearms as NFA.

 

Well form day one they said they would consider executive orders and other non-legislative measures. I've seen this pushed both pro and anti, and all that has been done is that a statement made on day one has been reiterated.

 

As for making things NFA, that would require legislation as the definitions of title I and title II items are part of the NFA legislation. It would be hard, if not impossible to cram semi autos or magazines into any category of title II stuff without violating the verbiage of the legislation that grants BATFE the ability to regulate NFA items.

 

He can use the executive order to interfere in manufacturing of firearms and ammunition via the recent updates to the emergency powers. He also can interfere with distribution via guidance to the BATFE regarding licensing and handling of FFLs.

 

Probably the worst thing I can imagine is him using the office to bully the large stores out of the firearms business like wal-mart, cabelas, etc., and then mandate storage, fees, or other requirements onto the licensing of FFLs to make it untenable for anyone other than the large businesses he forced out of the market. This would of course come with MASSIVE backlash form both constituents and politicians. That's the closest thing I can imagine to a ban beign enacted by EO.

 

NExt most onerous thing I could think of is creating a new class of FFL that you ahve to be to sell semi-automatic firearms, but I have no idea if creating a new defined class of weapons is within the purview of the BATFE.

 

However, anything the BATFE does that way can simply be repsonded to by budget riders like the tiahrt amendments were. Act like a douche, get your budget yanked.However, given that we ahven't had an actual budget passed in forever, I don't know if the strategy would apply to the spending bills we do pass. I don't see why not. In which case if it does, the opportunity would appear with every spending bill.

 

He does have a wide degree of latitude regarding import and export. He could shut down both for civilian commercial purposes, which would have a negative effect on the industry and the market, but wouldn't really achieve much in regards to the types of things available. He could also basically cut of mec-gar's manufacturing from access to the US, which would seriously screw up the supply of OEM magazines for most guns.

 

Of course, he can try making stuff up and shoving it in an executive order, but congress would have to sit back and watch there branch of government become effectively obsolete. However, I suspect that anything in an EO will go after manufacturing and distribution. They just don't have the manpower to impose something on owners directly.

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now if they make semi auto nfa....and let us sign up for our currently semi auto rifles as nfa would that open us up to f/a nfa guns?'

 

 

fat chance i know but j/s

 

my guess is state laws would still exist... I think that typically there are federal level laws.. but then also state.. so if the state disallowed an item it would still be disallowed..

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So what is the tipping point? When is enough enough? When do things get so bad that you are actually willing to disobey unjust laws and risk incarceration or worse? Certainly most people won't be willing to go out on a limb and risk everything they have over their guns.

 

"They are taking my semi-autos? Well, that's horrible but I'm not going to jail for it. I'll be able to defend myself with a pump shotgun."

"They just banned pump shotguns. OK, I have a revolver."

"No more revolvers, eh things will be ok. I'll live with it."

 

Not looking for answers, but I have been thinking about these things.

 

People sometimes wonder how the Jews went "like sheep" to their deaths in WWII. I can tell you from personal knowledge that it wasn't that simple. The Nazis were very smart, and imposed restrictions incrementally, over a number of years. First, exclusion from certain professions. Then universities. Gun confiscation. The yellow star. Then one day a knock at the door at night and a local police officer, maybe someone you knew, asking the head of the house to just come down to the police station for questioning. In that situation would you say "no", attack a police officer and go on the run with your family, or would you go along assuming you'd be home shortly? Of course, those men (like my grandfather) taken away by local police working at the German's direction (not German soldiers), lnever returned, leaving the women and children and the community leaderless. Soon after an announcement comes that everyone remaining had to move to a ghetto in 2 days. Then a few weeks or months later, after half starving to death crammed together in an apartment with three other families, an order comes to report to the train station with one bag each, with the "promise" of being "relocated" for work on farms. Are you going to fight then? Organize the weakened people remaining to fight? People got used to to each incremental restriction and said "things aren't that bad. things will change" right up to the point they were in the cattle cars with no more options and no way to fight back. That's basically what happened to my father.

 

I'm not remotely saying we are living in Nazi Germany, but we are most definitely losing our freedoms, bit by bit. Any lingering doubt about this has been dispelled by the nationwide hysteria -- yes hyesteria -- since Sandy Hook. We all know that in reality we could all "live with" a 10 round magazine limit. But what about Cuomo's 7 which will essentially elimiaten private ownership of semi-auto firearms? What about an executive order to register all semi-autos under the NFA.

 

What are YOU going to do??

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I wonder how much of this is political posturing to get 2A groups to capitulate and agree to an AWB 2.0? Honestly, using an Executive Order to mess with the Constitution is a BIG friggin deal. I honestly don't see ANY political goodwill to come from actually EO-ing something to do with guns. With the economy and the partisanship on both sides, this could make things even MORE difficult for DC to actually get anything done. Republican Senators/Reps are not going to be thrilled that they were circumvented entirely, and i'll bet a fair amount of Democrats would feel the same way. You have to understand that Repub or Dem, these guys are all about keeping their job and power. Anything that chips away at their perceived power on the Hill is going to ruffle some feathers BIG time.

 

Stay the course. Do NOT let them scare us into taking a compromise or a deal. THEY themselves will suffer the in-fighting and repercussions of an EO on guns. It will ugly for them just as it will be ugly for us. No one wants this to go EO. It's a threat. DO NOT COMPROMISE.

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Not sure if im correct but i thought some nfa was allowed in nj just never issued. Ill have to look into it but i thought that full auto nfa was legal in nj. Just there have been zero permits issued for it.

 

FWIW if I remember, when former Secretary of Treasury Bill Simon (1927-2000) moved to New Jersey to work on Wall Street, he tried to bring his (legal) Thompson submachine gun up from his home in Virginia. He was denied a NJ permit. I think very few, less than a handful of permits have been issued and it takes more strings to pull than a former Treasury Secretary has access to. Apparently there is a permitting process, but pretty much nobody can get one.

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Historical Executive Orders on Gun Control:

 

"On March 15, 1989, less than two months after taking office, Bush temporarily banned, by executive order, the importation various semi-automatic assault weapons.[3] That ban was extended a few weeks later to include additional firearms,[4] and was made permanent by Bush in July, 1989.[5]

 

During his term, President Clinton also used the power of executive orders to implement gun control policies. On April 6, 1998 Clinton signed an order that permanently banned the importation of more than 50 semiautomatic "assault weapons".[12] In 1999 White House domestic policy chief Bruce D. Reed said, "The country is tired of waiting for Congress to respond to the tragedy in Littleton. The administration is going to do every thing in its power to make progress on guns."[13] In 2001 Clinton also used executive orders to ban the importation of "assault pistols" and tighten licensing rules on gun dealers.[14] Many accused Clinton of overuse of the executive power on gun control issues."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_con...Administration

 

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The executive order will pertain to imported guns and ammo.

The primary target will be Russian AKs and 7.62. Everything - Saigas included.

This is partially in response to Russia banning U.S. adoption of Russian children. No, I am not kidding...

 

This is most likely, and fortunately easily circumvented by licensing the design, or just izmash building a factory here.

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FWIW if I remember, when former Secretary of Treasury Bill Simon (1927-2000) moved to New Jersey to work on Wall Street, he tried to bring his (legal) Thompson submachine gun up from his home in Virginia. He was denied a NJ permit. I think very few, less than a handful of permits have been issued and it takes more strings to pull than a former Treasury Secretary has access to. Apparently there is a permitting process, but pretty much nobody can get one.

 

Fascinating, do you have any more info on that or can point me to a source? The reason I'm curious is I used to work for a company he owned and met him several times.

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An executive order is a sign of despiration.and Its only valid during the term of the president that signs it .I dont think hes got the votes in the Senate or the House to pass any restrictive law.The Clinton awb could never pass by itself it had to be part of a huge pork filled omnibus crime bill, and that just barely passed with a Democrat House and Senate. After the Clinton awb passed the Democrats got there asses handed to them in the mid term election. Even Clinton said the reason they lost was bcause of the awb bill. That was in 1994 very few people had AR 15's back then. Now I pretty sure for the last 10 years or so the numer 1 selling centerfire rifle is the AR 15.

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FWIW if I remember, when former Secretary of Treasury Bill Simon (1927-2000) moved to New Jersey to work on Wall Street, he tried to bring his (legal) Thompson submachine gun up from his home in Virginia. He was denied a NJ permit. I think very few, less than a handful of permits have been issued and it takes more strings to pull than a former Treasury Secretary has access to. Apparently there is a permitting process, but pretty much nobody can get one.

 

 

Fascinating, do you have any more info on that or can point me to a source? The reason I'm curious is I used to work for a company he owned and met him several times.

 

I remember when Simon tried to get a FA permit from NJ. Can't remember exactly what the weapon was but IIRC one of his arguments was he didn't have Secret Service protection any more. It didn't get him anywhere.

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How do all the politicians in DC let this scumbag POS continue to do whatever he pleases? Do ANY of them still have ANY balls, yeah, including the women?

 

I wonder the same thing. When is someone going to have the stones to challenge him and bring a case to the Supreme Court for all the executive order BS.

 

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This is most likely, and fortunately easily circumvented by licensing the design, or just izmash building a factory here.

 

I was wondering the same thing? If the Russian guns were banned for import couldn't an enterprising company here in the States license and produce the same gun, that is more expensive, and circumvent the ban? The same with ammo. Aren't there any U.S. companies that produce 7.62x39 ammo?

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An executive order prohibiting the importing of 7.62x39 ammo would turn a lot of AKs into little more than paper weights for a lot of people - at least for a period of time.

 

We should hope they are only planning to do some bans on imported 7.62 ammo or ak's. atleast the workaround is manufacture it here and be done :)

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So what is the tipping point? When is enough enough? When do things get so bad that you are actually willing to disobey unjust laws and risk incarceration or worse? Certainly most people won't be willing to go out on a limb and risk everything they have over their guns.

 

This is something that frustrates me horribly. There won't be a clear "hey everyone this is it!" moment. Seriously, there wasn't one the first time when we had the revolution. The civil war was clearer because the states decided to pick a fight with each other according to the general conventions of war at the time which still involved running big crowds of guys at each other with weapons most of the time. Even with the revolution it wasn't like everyone got the memo that as soon as they do X, everyone meet up here and the revolution starts. Step one, much like the small revolutions in the war on drugs, begins with simply ignoring the laws. That started long ago. I guarantee you there are plenty of machine guns not on the registry. When you read stories about finding a pile of really valuable WWII NFA covered items dumped someplace or handed in to a police station by a widow, you know it was going on. You also know that sometimes when the guy who was hoarding them kicked it they weren't ditched or turned in. There are also people out there making FA weapons out of legal semi-autos since some of them get found regularly by law enforcement. How much do you want to bet during the AWB, people manufactured new high cap mags from rebuild kits, or that they didn't pin or weld muzzle devices, or they built an AW out of a not previously assembled old lower? How much do you want to bet people sell guns to people they know without following the law?

 

The question really is how much of the norm does breaking the law become, and how hard does law enforcement push back and what happens then. Look at the drug war, you spawned a whole bunch of gangs. They aren't lawless, some have pretty complex founding documents and laws. They just aren't the laws of any official government. They have land the police won't travel onto and do anything about anything. The people who live there know who is in charge there. They get more and more each year.

 

And what is the barrier to entry of that? We ALREADY live under a state of rule where you are probably guilty of some life ruining infraction you don't even know about. If it can't put you in jail for a year or more AND financially ruin you, it can at least financially ruin you.. hard. They keep cranking it up, and there may be little difference in the end result of punishment if you fill out paperwork wrong compared to what was done to the DC sniper. Except he knows where his next meal is coming from.

 

IT won't be like some big social event. It will be more like a really good sale. THe govenrment can't afford ot actually enforce anythign really draconian universally, so you live in peril. Except they do this with a whole bunch of things. AT some point the risk for everything you do will be so high, there won't be a difference between shooting someone in the face, and some other violation of the law that should simply never been put on an equal footing with murder. For more and more people the math will be "at these prices how cna I NOT afford to shoot the guy in the face?"

 

PErsonally, I'm shocked there hasn't been more violence towards the government after the last time I got a ticket for speeding. Immediate cost was about $380 when you added everything up. Ongoing cost has ballooned to over $2000. I make significantly above the median income in NJ, and I felt it in my budget. I could have always jettisoned some non absolute necessity expenses. If you are making near the median though, a simple 1-14 over ticket could have you getting booted to the street or driving around in peril of a series of escalating infractions you will likey never be able to dig yourself out of. (at least by my estimate, ahd a friend who did that with suspensiona nd whatnot.. eventual cost was 4 years of no driving and about $13,000 to get everything set right at the end of it and get insurance again, and that was well over a decade ago when my speeding ticket would have cost me a sum total of about $800 long term). The grossly disproportionate penalties have actually creeped pretty low.

 

Deep down you know this. The situation is degrading and getting worse. What you are really asking is when will it be my turn to tell them to screw off, what form will it take, and how many other will be doing it at the same time.

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This is something that frustrates me horribly. There won't be a clear "hey everyone this is it!" moment. Seriously, there wasn't one the first time when we had the revolution. The civil war was clearer because the states decided to pick a fight with each other according to the general conventions of war at the time which still involved running big crowds of guys at each other with weapons most of the time. Even with the revolution it wasn't like everyone got the memo that as soon as they do X, everyone meet up here and the revolution starts. Step one, much like the small revolutions in the war on drugs, begins with simply ignoring the laws. That started long ago. I guarantee you there are plenty of machine guns not on the registry. When you read stories about finding a pile of really valuable WWII NFA covered items dumped someplace or handed in to a police station by a widow, you know it was going on. You also know that sometimes when the guy who was hoarding them kicked it they weren't ditched or turned in. There are also people out there making FA weapons out of legal semi-autos since some of them get found regularly by law enforcement. How much do you want to bet during the AWB, people manufactured new high cap mags from rebuild kits, or that they didn't pin or weld muzzle devices, or they built an AW out of a not previously assembled old lower? How much do you want to bet people sell guns to people they know without following the law?

 

The question really is how much of the norm does breaking the law become, and how hard does law enforcement push back and what happens then. Look at the drug war, you spawned a whole bunch of gangs. They aren't lawless, some have pretty complex founding documents and laws. They just aren't the laws of any official government. They have land the police won't travel onto and do anything about anything. The people who live there know who is in charge there. They get more and more each year.

 

And what is the barrier to entry of that? We ALREADY live under a state of rule where you are probably guilty of some life ruining infraction you don't even know about. If it can't put you in jail for a year or more AND financially ruin you, it can at least financially ruin you.. hard. They keep cranking it up, and there may be little difference in the end result of punishment if you fill out paperwork wrong compared to what was done to the DC sniper. Except he knows where his next meal is coming from.

 

IT won't be like some big social event. It will be more like a really good sale. THe govenrment can't afford ot actually enforce anythign really draconian universally, so you live in peril. Except they do this with a whole bunch of things. AT some point the risk for everything you do will be so high, there won't be a difference between shooting someone in the face, and some other violation of the law that should simply never been put on an equal footing with murder. For more and more people the math will be "at these prices how cna I NOT afford to shoot the guy in the face?"

 

PErsonally, I'm shocked there hasn't been more violence towards the government after the last time I got a ticket for speeding. Immediate cost was about $380 when you added everything up. Ongoing cost has ballooned to over $2000. I make significantly above the median income in NJ, and I felt it in my budget. I could have always jettisoned some non absolute necessity expenses. If you are making near the median though, a simple 1-14 over ticket could have you getting booted to the street or driving around in peril of a series of escalating infractions you will likey never be able to dig yourself out of. (at least by my estimate, ahd a friend who did that with suspensiona nd whatnot.. eventual cost was 4 years of no driving and about $13,000 to get everything set right at the end of it and get insurance again, and that was well over a decade ago when my speeding ticket would have cost me a sum total of about $800 long term). The grossly disproportionate penalties have actually creeped pretty low.

 

Deep down you know this. The situation is degrading and getting worse. What you are really asking is when will it be my turn to tell them to screw off, what form will it take, and how many other will be doing it at the same time.

 

For $380 sounds like you went to court and took the plea for 39:4-97.2?

 

There are other ways around that plea under certain circumstances.....

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now if they make semi auto nfa....and let us sign up for our currently semi auto rifles as nfa would that open us up to f/a nfa guns?'

 

 

fat chance i know but j/s

Nope, it would just be a new classification, like Mg, DD, SBR, AOW, or Silencer if you mean soecifically here in NJ?? Nope NFA toys other than MGs are still unlawful by statute, and Mg licenses are orders of magnitude harder to get than carry permits

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I have said for years something has to give (or be taken back the hard way) with the second amendment. No other right has been so maligned and demonized or so disproportionately protected as the right to keep and bear arms. Some standard must be found so that the citizen in Vermont has an equal expectation of that right as the citizen in Los Angeles or in the Bronx or in Chicago. If the first amendment were treated with the same level of contempt some citizens would have access to computers and the internet and others would still be relegated to quill pens and inkwells with limits on how many sheets of paper they were able to possess. Enough is enough. I'm glad the majority of gun owners are waking up and rubbing the sand from their eyes after such a long nap. This shit has to end, one way or another.

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