Proposed Bill A3676 and the Fourth Amendment

[Kerouac32 0]

The Fourth Amendment states:

 

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

Lyman Trumble, speaking about the amendment and its relation to the states said, "There is no change in that respect so far as the States are concerned, and the Federal Government cannot interfere with the States so long as they do not deprive some person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."

 

Proposed bill A3676 sponsored by Assem. Jiminez states:

 

"No handgun purchase permit or firearms purchaser identification card shall be issued:

(10) To any person who has not had an on-site inspection and evaluation of the household where the firearm will be situate, the purpose of which is to ensure the person is qualified to purchase the firearm as required by subsection c. of this section."

 

I know historically "search and seizure" is referring to arrests but has there been any recent cases that may tie in and bolster our fight against these proposed bills in regards to the Fourth Amendment?

And, I can't even begin to imagine the vague language that will be used to define a person that is unqualified after the inspection.

 

 

[Handyman 5,682]

Law abiding citizens having their homes searched by the government to determine who is "qualified"? I bet the qualified people will be the same as those who "qualify" for a CCW permit.

 

It is almost time to start shooting. Star Ledger, I hope you are following this. There will be blood, and it will be the fault of the government.

[NJCK 5]

Please write, call and email your thoughts to the Bills sponsors and every one of the Assembly Committee members that will be hearing the Bill.

[diamondd817 826]

They are trying to make an FID card "may issue". Just like the carry laws.

[Chvl67 0]

Law abiding citizens having their homes searched by the government to determine who is "qualified"? I bet the qualified people will be the same as those who "qualify" for a CCW permit.

 

It is almost time to start shooting. Star Ledger, I hope you are following this. There will be blood, and it will be the fault of the government.

Oh don't worry--the same people who keep regurgitating that the words "hunting" and "sporting" are somewhere in the Constitution, and they have no intention of disrupting that are lying out of both sides of their mouths. The government feels (and many citizens, not just the vegans) that you have no "need" to hunt to gather food anymore, anymore than you have a "need" to plant a garden that they can't tax. It will become an either direct or indirect attack on the hunting and sporting industries, and then all those people who say "doesn't affect me" will be looking around like Ralphie on Xmas morning who thought he was getting a Red Rider bb gun--but this time the only thing awaiting them is the pink bunny costume. This idiots are so short sighted in their attempt to gun grab, that they don't care what effect this will have on the already fragile economy. I guarantee you the state of NY will suffer dire consequences because the out of state hunters who enjoyed their pastime and spent MILLIONS of dollars for licenses, lodging, and guides, will stay the hell away from that state.

The idiot Rahm Emanuel is even going so far as to try and force the hand of Financial firms to divest any and all business from any corporation that has a hand in the firearms industry--because that's truly the definition of capitalism and the American way.

 

The Star Ledger is a rag--When I saw the Op-Ed from the tool who thought it was a great idea to follow the Journal News lead in publishing gun permit holders, I promptly instructed my wife to cancel our subscription to that commie drivel. There is no tangible reason that anyone needs to know what I own-parents who are "so concerned, and should know whether their children are visiting a house with firearms" would be better served with their parents actually taking an ACTIVE PART in their children's lives, and knowing whom they are associating with in the first place.

 

We're legislating away any and all personal responsibility. It's always someone, or something else's fault for the bad that befalls our society. Leftists focus their efforts on "feelings", rather than fact.

Ron Paul didn't have it so wrong-the Libertarian philosophy is the best possible way to govern a society. Because the government gets out of the way.

[Kerouac32 0]

parents who are "so concerned, and should know whether their children are visiting a house with firearms" would be better served with their parents actually taking an ACTIVE PART in their children's lives, and knowing whom they are associating with in the first place.

 

It's a great point and can't be understated. Parents are too often lazy and the government loves laziness.

[Genewarper111 18]

Given the low opinion of gun owners generally in the community, and the attempts to portray us in every possible bad light, I don't think that this thread or this forum, benefits in any possible way from comments such as:

 

"...it is almost time to start shooting..."

or

"...there will be blood.."

 

I ask the mods to strike such comments immediately and for those who feel the need to post such immoderate comments to do so elsewhere.

 

G

[H.M. Murdock 0]

Probably would have gone unnoticed if you hadn't shined a light on it

 

Old undershirts can be used if you don't have a white flag handy

[Pythagoras 2]

Ron Paul didn't have it so wrong-the Libertarian philosophy is the best possible way to govern a society. Because the government gets out of the way.

 

+100000

[ryan_j 0]

They are trying to make an FID card "may issue". Just like the carry laws.

 

Bad bad bad!!! Both should be SHALL issue, just like it is in America.

[Handyman 5,682]

Given the low opinion of gun owners generally in the community, and the attempts to portray us in every possible bad light, I don't think that this thread or this forum, benefits in any possible way from comments such as:

 

"...it is almost time to start shooting..."

or

"...there will be blood.."

 

I ask the mods to strike such comments immediately and for those who feel the need to post such immoderate comments to do so elsewhere.

 

G

 

 

Respectfully, I cannot disagree with you more. We have been pushed back, and back and back, and now we are in the corner. There is no where else to back up to. I live a quiet life, and will cause no harm to anyone who does not harm me. But if my rights are infringed to the point that they violate my constitutional rights and come for my guns, there will be shooting and it will not end well for anyone.

 

Liberals, please hear this loud and clear. If you are peace loving, leave law abiding people's firearms alone. If you continue to press for taking firearms from law abiding citizens, you will cause war. Waco will be repeated on scales large and small thousands of times throughout the country (possibly for decades). It should make no difference to you whether I have a blunderbuss, a flamethrower or a Sherman tank. Leave us alone. If you continue to interfere, you do so at your peril.

[mikelets456 78]

Respectfully, I cannot disagree with you more. We have been pushed back, and back and back, and now we are in the corner. There is no where else to back up to. I live a quiet life, and will cause no harm to anyone who does not harm me. But if my rights are infringed to the point that they violate my constitutional rights and come for my guns, there will be shooting and it will not end well for anyone.

 

Liberals, please hear this loud and clear. If you are peace loving, leave law abiding people's firearms alone. If you continue to press for taking firearms from law abiding citizens, you will cause war. Waco will be repeated on scales large and small thousands of times throughout the country (possibly for decades). It should make no difference to you whether I have a blunderbuss, a flamethrower or a Sherman tank. Leave us alone. If you continue to interfere, you do so at your peril.

 

I agree with you on this and disagree with genewarper111. I really feel we have complied and have sat back while watching freedom after freedom be stripped away. It's our fault for being complacent and now we're jammed in a corner. I'm one of those "you have your life and I have mine" type of people and hoped we could all get along. However, that's not the case and this issue is MY LINE IN THE SAND!

 

I pay close to 50% of my income in taxes between Fed income tax, state, sales tax, property tax, medicare, SS, payroll tax, etc, etc, etc. I have been pushed into a corner regarding my faith, I've been shunned by the public school and treated as a criminal when I expressed an opinion. THAT'S IT!! I'm done being nice and I will not give an INCH on this subject. I work more for some lazy azz moron and sending my money through the government to the middle East, that I get to spend on my family. Now they want to seize or control my final God given ACTUAL rights? NOPE!

 

I don't care who I piss off and I don't care about public opinion anymore...I care about preserving freedom and according to recent poll, 70% of this country cares about it as well. Like I said, this is not in my personality as I'm typically a people pleaser, but that's it... I'm done playing Mr. Nice guy. It's time to get tough and get back our freedom!

[Genewarper111 18]

I am not saying for a second that we lie down and let "them" take away our rights, particularly when their reasons are based in fear and ignorance, and a need to let others do the hard stuff. It is completely true that these people would rather blame the object than ask whether video games that have simulated mass murder and suicide as an endpoint, and psychological drugs such as ritalin - are a very dangerous cocktail in teen boys, or to acknowledge the steady erosion of the country's social structure

 

I believe quite the opposite and I respect those who are willing to "draw a line" and stand by it. All I am saying, ALL, is that it hurts our cause very seriously, to propose violence.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that I believe that the Second Amendment was written purposefully as a defense against the tyranny of the British Government (or future iterations thereof), or anecdotes such as the Japanese decided never to invade the USA because there would be a "rifle behind every blade of grass", or the fact that in the UK, absence of guns did and does nothing to diminish violence - the majority of people believe "guns are bad".

 

Therefore, when people who don't believe that say things such as "it's almost time to start shooting" on a public forum in a medium that can NEVER be destroyed, you can bet this will come back to bite us and used to diminish the overall argument as one being put forward by "gun nuts".

 

So, I ask again, please, despite being frustrated, don't post such stuff. This isn't a private conversation. Would you want Lawrence O'Donnell or Rachel Maddow quoting you? Think about that. We are on the defensive here.

 

G

[MrSurfboard 1]

They are trying to make an FID card "may issue". Just like the carry laws.

 

That seems to be where a lot of these new bills are heading for. The more hurdles you have to jump through, the greater chance to be disqualified.

[johnott 5]

I always viewed myself as an amiable fellow, I try to mind my own business and get along with others. As a whole, I think we in the gun community are the same way. Over the years, we (and those before us) have tried to be respectful of the fears and misconceptions that have permeated the thinking of the public at large. We have given in and accepted limitations and restrictions related to firearms even though there were no legal grounds for them to be enacted. We, out of respect and courtesy for our fellow citizens allowed this to allay their fears and to get along. We didn't have to do those things; the Second Amendment clearly exempts firearms from any restrictions with the words "shall not be infringed". Nevertheless, we wanted to be "good guys" and reasonable people so we allowed some restrictions and regulation. Where did being reasonable get us? Now the other side has taken that which we have allowed and are using it as a precedent for further action. Endless action for anything they deem is for the greater good or public safety... it's now becoming a blank check. We did not mind helping out, but now they've gone too far. Their ideology is out of sync with our Constitutional protections.

 

I used to be in favor of "legislation" that would prevent firearms from getting into the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. The argument was always framed so that you looked like a louse or a fool if you answered in the negative. Of course none of us would like to see a felon have access to firearms! BUT now I realize that giving up more and more of my rights won't accomplish that goal either. If they want to brand, tattoo, implant an ID chip under the skin of felons so they can be tracked and identified that's fine with me; but I see no reason that everyone be treated like a criminal in order to catch the few that are. If they truly want to do something meaningful to stop gun violence they should declare war on inner city gangs and stop gang related crime. We see the writing on the wall, and it's not a new message. It has been written by previous generations... and the message is -cherish and safeguard your freedoms.

 

Exclaimer: I do not advocate anything other than lawful, peaceful protests, phone calls and letter writing, but we need to get everyone involved at some level. We also need to reach out to our fellow citizens and not just our legislators.

[so_dank 0]

Government does not and will not raise my child. I decide what he or she does and I discipline them how I see fit. There wellfare is my concern not theirs. No man or woman will set foot in my home without a warrent to determine the saftey of my home. If my child is not fit to be in a home with firearms that's my decision. If they show in school that they are not mentally fit and this is addressed by a study team then and only then would I allow a person to evaluate the saftey of my child around firearms. Although I would already have chosen to remove them prior to this as a parent you know your child and where they are mentally. Unless of course your an unfit parent in this case your an unfit person and have no business owning a firearm or having a child.

No I don't have kids but if I did that's where I stand.

 

I only see this turning out bad and I feel its more disarm citizens than protect the general public. It starts with clips then what?? As society starts to crumble at the impending financial collapse the fear of civil unrest has projectionists concerned. It dosent help our case that MTV has some nuts on TV hoarding weapons and talking crazy. Then you have Bunker builders and doomsday people but hey you know what there prepared. More than I am.

I myself will not be a victim. I am fortunate to live in a good area with good people with a good ratio of land to person. We all hunt most raise a form of livestock and are all patriotic. I will not turn on my neighbors as they will not turn on me there is no need to as there is enough to go around.

I don't think its some conspiracy like many do, its just a matter of too far gone for easy recovery. Most don't realize this is a depression because the ones that will cause anarchy are still receiving there free ride. The last major depression was a known thing as political leaders cut spending and did what had to be done to recover. Many suffered for a short while but we recovered as a nation and people rallied behind the government because they were not being deceived. When that free ride is all dried up and people see that were in a severe place economically all hell will break loose.

Lol I'm just teasing everything is fine calm down and watch cable t.v.

[Sonnylee 20]

Don't give up let stick together on this one and go all the way!

"WE THE PEOPLE"!!

[Handyman 5,682]

Genewarper,

 

I appreciate your position, and understand completely where you are coming from. I used to hold the same position. But events of late - particularly in NY - have (to use the words of the President) caused my views to evolve.

 

I am a very quiet guy, probably more so than your librarian. I have volunteered literally thousands of hours over decades in service to my community. I am a typical 2.5 kids with a dog and a white picket fence kind of guy. Liberals along with everyone else would see me as Joe average middle class. Almost no one knows I own firearms. I'm not the kind of person that they showcase on doomsday preppers shows.

 

If you consider my views radical, progressive infringements have radicalized me. If they leave me alone I will live a happy, peaceful productive life of service to the community. If my rights are further infringed, Lexington and Concord will be played out.

 

Liberals want to confiscate firearms in the mistaken belief that it will decrease violence. It will not; in fact, it may lead to violence unlike anything that has been seen in this country since the 1860s. Given the opportunity, I would be very happy to discuss this with Rachel Maddow or Lawrence O'Donnell.

 

We cannot be "on the defensive." We have done that for years and where has it gotten us? The best defense is a good offense.