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Josh S

5.56 @ Ammoman

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Once again how is this gouging?

Do you think he restocked these at his normal prices?

Do you think he was able to get the same amount that he normally stocks?

Do you think that he actually selles ammo to service the gun cummunity or to actually turn a profit.

Did he change the prices of the ammo stock he had in before or when the demand spiked?

 

The people in this line of work have more too loose then anyone else from the current federal and state climate.

If the things that happened in NY were to happen under federal law or under state law here, Ammo man is pretty

much out of business. As much as I do not care for him he does this to turn a buck and support himself not only

for today but for the future. The term "Gauging" does not apply when there is a serious supply issue and a huge

demand for something that is not essential for breathing. You have a choice not to buy, but to be honest gun and ammo manufactures in this country are backed up for 6-15 months so expect to keep seeing what you are seeing.

 

It's amazing for me to see people walk around screeming about the liberals and their distane for capitalism and how that is the basis for the America and how we built this country, then when it effects that same persons pocket they screem gouger.

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I think the gouging has subsided I have read that even law enforcement agencies are paying 30% more in some cases to buy weapons and ammo. I think at this point the added overtime and effort to produce and supply ammunition and guns is the reason for current prices.

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So Ammoman.com has 5.56 in stock, but even they caved into the $ gouging. 5.56 green tips 420 rounds for 399$

I see what you're saying that the high prices suck. Here the way I see it. I think that is high for 5.56, I personally wouldn't buy it unless I needed some right now. All you can do is shop around. I for one am not gonna hop on the boycott this and that train. I just won't buy that particular item at that price. But when they have ammo and someone else has it at the same price I might use this as a deciding factor on who gets my business especially if the other didn't (gouge)

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@Hodgie Well let's try and keep this civil. Where in any reports do you see that due to the recent spike in demand for ammo and other elated products that the cost of manufacturing has risen? Lets also make it clear that in no way did I say to boycott. If you want to purchase that's fine with me in no way how you spend your money effects me. If it looks like a duck sounds like a duck and quack like a duck then it's a duck. Keep the forum muscles to your self.

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@Hodgie Well let's try and keep this civil. Where in any reports do you see that due to the recent spike in demand for ammo and other elated products that the cost of manufacturing has risen? Lets also make it clear that in no way did I say to boycott. If you want to purchase that's fine with me in no way how you spend your money effects me. If it looks like a duck sounds like a duck and quack like a duck then it's a duck. Keep the forum muscles to your self.

 

No adding full to the fire in any way, but give a call to Federal, Hornady, Fiocchi - take your pick. You have to understand YEARS worth of inventory was sold in weeks, and now there's a shortage of all components to make cartridges. You will see primers and bullets completely dry up this year as they are all being diverted to cartridge production. Federal is running ammo at full capacity right now, not taking any more backorders, and will be delivering government orders before any goes into retail for the majority of this year!

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@Hodgie Well let's try and keep this civil. Where in any reports do you see that due to the recent spike in demand for ammo and other elated products that the cost of manufacturing has risen? Lets also make it clear that in no way did I say to boycott. If you want to purchase that's fine with me in no way how you spend your money effects me. If it looks like a duck sounds like a duck and quack like a duck then it's a duck. Keep the forum muscles to your self.

 

 

A. you answered none of my questions in my 1st post.

B Simple Economics, if supply is down and demand goes up so do prices regardless of cost of materials or avaiability.

 

Do you think that the russian ammo plants give a damn about keeping their prices low? With increased damand on them to produce they are going to run around the clock filling civilian ammo for export at a premium to the importers and that will be passed onto the local retialers and then to the buyers. Manufactures are running at more then 100%, they have to pay workers to run around the clock and raw materials have dried up. I like to read more then just the prices on a website. I have a stake in the firearms game and am in the process of leaving nj for good to further that venture in a free state, it's important for me to keep on top of whats going on.

 

Not sure what you mean by your last statement but if your implying that I am trying to be a bully or some kind of keyboard commando you are barking up the wrong tree my firend. Before people start yelling gouger and

rip off they need to understand a few things about operating a successfull business that can outlast times like this.

My reply was to get you and others to think beyond the price and see the cause and effect of it.

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See here, I know for a fact Ruger wont take a phone call or an order and Springfield did not have a single m1a in stock

1 week after the school shooting.

 

http://njgunforums.c...086#entry623086

 

.AMMO:

 

Every caliber is now Allocated! We are looking at a nation wideshortage of all calibers over the next 9 months. All plants are producing asmuch ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rounds produced weekly. Most ismilitary followed by L.E. and civilians are third in line.

 

Try and find 22lr locally or almost anywhere for that matter.

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It is only gouging during an emergency. It is supply and demand. Capitalism. Buy or don't buy. Nobody is forcing you.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging

 

I think you are complicating it. When you can drive a few hours, or have the ups guy drop it off, and not pay the insane prices, it's gouging. When you can't, there's a reason and it isn't because every business is run by jerks.

 

Based on my interaction with ammonan early on, I won't bother with them. It has nothing to do with their prices though. There price is in line with anyone else who are buying and selling significant quantity in case lots.

 

 

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@Hodgie Well let's try and keep this civil. Where in any reports do you see that due to the recent spike in demand for ammo and other elated products that the cost of manufacturing has risen? Lets also make it clear that in no way did I say to boycott. If you want to purchase that's fine with me in no way how you spend your money effects me. If it looks like a duck sounds like a duck and quack like a duck then it's a duck. Keep the forum muscles to your self.
sorry man. I know you didn't say boycott. Just generally where these post go

 

 

sent from my Samsung Note 2

 

 

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sorry man. I know you didn't say boycott. Just generally where these post go

 

 

sent from my Samsung Note 2

Oh no please don't be sorry. Sorry if for someone who did something wrong. Everyone here is just voicing their concerns or opinion. I don't care if I'm proven wrong or not, we can just all be civil about it is all.

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I'm still sticking to my guns on this though. My local shop and other places I CHOOSE to shop at didn't bring their prices up do to the fear buying.

My local shop that I buy ammo from is still 7.99 a box when they have it. Wonder where he gets it from that he can AFFORD not to charge so much for it? I got the same 5.56 greenies from Palmetto last week for 80$ for 200 rounds. Wonder where they get their ammo from that they can also afford not to charge a 1$ a round? Sorry but when some places still have the prices that existed 3 months ago, and other places are making 300% mark up, it may not be price gouging, however I'm sure there is a term for it.

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This has become a self-fulfilling prophecy..everytime another shooting happens people are gonna freak out and buy whatever they can find...camp out on websites hitting the refresh button 100 times a day ...then we read about how rifles are on two year backorder...ammo is backed up 9 months..reloaders cant find components...this causes dealers to raise prices..which some people are more than willing to buy..all in the name of capitalism..the firearms industry has become the oil industry..prices based purely off speculation(which in this case is driven by fear)

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This has become a self-fulfilling prophecy..everytime another shooting happens people are gonna freak out and buy whatever they can find...camp out on websites hitting the refresh button 100 times a day ...then we read about how rifles are on two year backorder...ammo is backed up 9 months..reloaders cant find components...this causes dealers to raise prices..which some people are more than willing to buy..all in the name of capitalism..the firearms industry has become the oil industry..prices based purely off speculation(which in this case is driven by fear)

Agreed 100%

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This has become a self-fulfilling prophecy..everytime another shooting happens people are gonna freak out and buy whatever they can find...camp out on websites hitting the refresh button 100 times a day ...then we read about how rifles are on two year backorder...ammo is backed up 9 months..reloaders cant find components...this causes dealers to raise prices..which some people are more than willing to buy..all in the name of capitalism..the firearms industry has become the oil industry..prices based purely off speculation(which in this case is driven by fear)

 

Interesting. So in the first half you say that this is demand driven (people want stuff badly) and in the second half you say it is demand driven (industry are being dicks). Its almost as if there was a relation between supply and demand, isn't it?

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Interesting. So in the first half you say that this is demand driven (people want stuff badly) and in the second half you say it is demand driven (industry are being dicks). Its almost as if there was a relation between supply and demand, isn't it?

Sure..but the whole situation was created by fear of an unknown.. .and who is charging these (in some cases double) prices to the consumer..the rifle and ammo manufacturers or the lower level dealers?.. Are the gun and bullet makers charging 40-100% more to the dealers and distributers? There are places running banners "get em before the ban"...thats fear mongering..some mainstream web stores have chosen to keep prices moderated (like cabelas) while others like cheaper than dirt are in full on gouge mode..but we're such a credit driven society that when faced with fear people whip out the plastic and pay whatever theyre charged..

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As I have to explain this to someone every couple of weeks, I think I need to save the argument and cut and paste it.

 

1) The situation is created by the consumer. If the consumer wasn't buying everything on the shelves, there wouldn't be an issue. The seller charge what the market will bear. It is called an economy.

 

2) Sometimes the seller HAS to charge more, regardless of how much he pays for the supply when the supply is limited. The seller has fixed business costs such as rent, electricity, payroll, etc. If the supply dries up and he can today only sell 1/2 of the volume he was selling yesterday, his costs do not go down while his revenue decreases, he has to raise prices.

 

3) Higher prices discourage panic hoarding, thus allowing some supply on the market. If prices stayed low, some people would continue to buy the entire available stock, way beyond their needs. As prices rise, more and more customers find themselves saying "at this price, I don't need to buy more", which leaves supply on the shelves for those finding themselves with not enough at any price.

 

I don't really know why people don't understand basic economics. I guess it is a symptom of the times when everyone thinks they deserve everything at low prices, call it the Walmart syndrome if you will.

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Vlad while you make all sound points but I will agree to disagree,

1. Yes the consumer did all the buying...why? Was it a sudden increase in shooting sport? No. It was fear driven by all sorts of info from both ends " buy it while you can get it" " there ain't going to be anymore" " you won't get one for two years" " the government's buying it all".

2. Yes the seller has to charge more sometimes...how much well that's a gray area... basic economic theory shows that a business, in order to remain successful should be dynamic enough to absorb supply fluctuation...I.e. don't have all your eggs in one basket...the ones that didn't will remain long after this nonsense blows over

3. The higher prices have done nothing to discourage the panic buying .. If it did where's all the stock... The panic doesnt seem to be winding down at all...People that are buying now either have enough means to do so or just buying on credit..the only way to limit hoarding is the stores which have decided ( correctly IMHO) to limit quantities.

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As I have to explain this to someone every couple of weeks, I think I need to save the argument and cut and paste it.

 

1) The situation is created by the consumer. If the consumer wasn't buying everything on the shelves, there wouldn't be an issue. The seller charge what the market will bear. It is called an economy.

 

2) Sometimes the seller HAS to charge more, regardless of how much he pays for the supply when the supply is limited. The seller has fixed business costs such as rent, electricity, payroll, etc. If the supply dries up and he can today only sell 1/2 of the volume he was selling yesterday, his costs do not go down while his revenue decreases, he has to raise prices.

 

3) Higher prices discourage panic hoarding, thus allowing some supply on the market. If prices stayed low, some people would continue to buy the entire available stock, way beyond their needs. As prices rise, more and more customers find themselves saying "at this price, I don't need to buy more", which leaves supply on the shelves for those finding themselves with not enough at any price.

 

I don't really know why people don't understand basic economics. I guess it is a symptom of the times when everyone thinks they deserve everything at low prices, call it the Walmart syndrome if you will.

 

Wait your just making too much sense here.

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Ugh! Mods just lock this. To many Internet tuff guys here that just can't seem to have a sensible debate, without throwing in a wise ass jab. We are all suppose to be friends here but some people just want to degrade others with wise comments. Really? So much for a sound community.

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1. Yes the consumer did all the buying...why? Was it a sudden increase in shooting sport? No. It was fear driven by all sorts of info from both ends " buy it while you can get it" " there ain't going to be anymore" " you won't get one for two years" " the government's buying it all".

 

That is irrelevant. The consumer can buy it to shoot it, hoard it, make Christmas decorations out of it, it is completely irrelevant. What difference does it make? The point that matters is that the consumer wants it, that's all that matter in a marketplace.

 

2. Yes the seller has to charge more sometimes...how much well that's a gray area... basic economic theory shows that a business, in order to remain successful should be dynamic enough to absorb supply fluctuation...I.e. don't have all your eggs in one basket...the ones that didn't will remain long after this nonsense blows over

 

So .. in NJ where there is basically no hunting market to speak of in firearms, and most of the sales are of probably of defense type firearms and ammo, when the supply of the things they sell most disappears do you not see how that is a most of their business? Dynamic how? They should start selling more low margin fishing bait? Sandwiches? Gun stores can not be THAT diversified by the nature of their business, most people don't go to the gun store to buy a dozen eggs the same way they don't go to the ShopRite to buy cars. The only "gun stores" that are diversified are Walmart, and they'd love to put the small shops out of business.

 

3. The higher prices have done nothing to discourage the panic buying .. If it did where's all the stock... The panic doesnt seem to be winding down at all...People that are buying now either have enough means to do so or just buying on credit..the only way to limit hoarding is the stores which have decided ( correctly IMHO) to limit quantities.

 

What you are saying is that the price is not high enough yet. I agree, prices will still go higher. Prices are still low enough that there are enough people willing to buy the entire supply. Either those folks will eventually have enough on hand and stop buying or the prices will go up enough to force that. I don't think we've even seen the peek of the panic yet, we are in the cold season with a lot of people taking a natural break from using their ammo. Wait until spring if you want to see how high the prices will get.

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That is irrelevant. The consumer can buy it to shoot it, hoard it, make Christmas decorations out of it, it is completely irrelevant. What difference does it make? The point that matters is that the consumer wants it, that's all that matter in a marketplace.

 

 

 

So .. in NJ where there is basically no hunting market to speak of in firearms, and most of the sales are of probably of defense type firearms and ammo, when the supply of the things they sell most disappears do you not see how that is a most of their business? Dynamic how? They should start selling more low margin fishing bait? Sandwiches? Gun stores can not be THAT diversified by the nature of their business, most people don't go to the gun store to buy a dozen eggs the same way they don't go to the ShopRite to buy cars. The only "gun stores" that are diversified are Walmart, and they'd love to put the small shops out of business.

 

 

 

What you are saying is that the price is not high enough yet. I agree, prices will still go higher. Prices are still low enough that there are enough people willing to buy the entire supply. Either those folks will eventually have enough on hand and stop buying or the prices will go up enough to force that. I don't think we've even seen the peek of the panic yet, we are in the cold season with a lot of people taking a natural break from using their ammo. Wait until spring if you want to see how high the prices will get.

So the system worked so well that it's gone into a 2 year backorder deadlock where dealers will have nothing to sell and shooters will have nothing to shoot..and prices will continue to trend upward.. Great business model.

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So the system worked so well that it's gone into a 2 year backorder deadlock where dealers will have nothing to sell and shooters will have nothing to shoot..and prices will continue to trend upward.. Great business model.

 

The system never works great. It just works a LOT worse when rationing and price controls come into play. Anyone who think that economics is smooth and clean and simple is wrong. Anyone who thinks that it would better if only there was some sort of market intervention should look how well that worked under communism.

 

Remember you are already talking about of the most regulated markets on earth. There are over 20000 laws relating to firearms and ammo. What you are seeing is a market heavily constrained by regulation and under threats of more regulation thrashing around trying to do what markets do which is balance supply and demand via prices.

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