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This kids got stones - Refuse's search & ID by LEO's

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here is my .2

 

i've said it before and i'll say it again: if you have nothing to hide, who cares if they know who you are? i would rather have a short conversation with an officer and explain what i was doing and why i was doing it and why it was legal then go through all that BS. if some idiot gets scared of your gun, wouldn't it be a whole lot better for all of us (and a lot more hilarious) if you just had a nice polite talk with the officer and then he sent you on your way still carrying your guns? what if that idiot who got scared saw that after they called? what if they saw some prick give the cops a hard time? this is my opinion, i know there are people on this board who disagree but hopefully we can all be mature enough to stick together in the times that we are in.

 

the taking the guns from him thing i am not cool with however. yes, i know it makes the officers nervous, but it is his right. it just doesn't make sense to me to make him put them down to talk... does that mean (in an open carry state) that everyone who open carries has to put their gun down on the side walk when a police cruiser drives by? or if your at the convenience store and there is an officer there buying his coffee for the morning? i have NOTHING against cops AT ALL, i've treated every one i've encountered with great respect but if the law allows me to carry my firearm i would prefer it be ME that carries it.

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This kid is a punk-ass douche... I understand he's trying to make a point... but is this the right way to do it?

 

So doing something a different way then you would do something makes someone a douche? Well, I wouldn't have said he is a douche...so using the same logic, I guess you must be one???

 

Kid is an a$$.....

 

I dont want people like this representing our cause....

 

You like the 2nd, but hate the 1st and 4th???

 

Both Officers showed great restraint. Yes, the person with the weapons was within his rights to have them, but behaved like a bully. The Officers have just a few seconds to access a situation, but this guy leaves his house hoping for this very situation to arise. He gets off on it.

 

And the cops weren't being a bully by taking his stuff? Furthermore, the one officer knew who he was, AND knew why he was doing it.

 

 

Nothing like wasting people's time. Again..I think there are far more productive ways to get your point across

 

You mean the cops right? I was thinking the same thing. A simple "have a good day" with a head shake would have worked better...without wasting anyones time.

 

You know what? I think he's a DICK! The shit these guys deal with on a daily basis and this asshole has to instigate this shit! He knows EXACTLY what he is doing!

 

He didn't instigate anything. He didn't confront or approach anyone, they approached him. They only dealt with him by THEIR choice. You don't get to violate people's rights just because you "deal with shit on a daily basis".

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The guy in video needs to know police protocol , it doesn't always boil down to Ccode and ordinances. Police have the right to start an investigation when their is reasonable suspicion, in this case brought on by the public because someone called in. That gives him the right to detain and investigate the individual until he can confirm hes not a threat and is being lawful.

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1. Protocol does not supersede the Constitution, no matter how you try to justify it.

2. You saw the video, were you suspicious that he was committing a crime, about to commit a crime, or just had committed a crime?

3. What does someone's name have to do with committing a crime? Do certain names lead someone to commit or not commit a crime?

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If a citizen calls in something of concern, its is the duty of the police to at least check it out, thats what he was doing. However I am sure in this department the guys know of him and are busting his balls. What I am stating is purely based on police having no knowledge of the individual being reported.

 

There is a balance between the laws and officer discretion and judgement, if we want to follow the laws to the T we might aswell have everyone ticked daily for speeding because everyone will go one mile over the speed limit. You cant go with black and white execution of laws on one instance and discretion on another there is a balance. I think the cops were being reasonable and the kid was being a dick and wasting police resources. Had he just shown ID and said I don't consent to this but am doing so under duress and said he is exercising his right to carry, he would have been free to go half way through the video.

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If a citizen calls in something of concern, its is the duty of the police to at least check it out, thats what he was doing. However I am sure in this department the guys know of him and are busting his balls. What I am stating is purely based on police having no knowledge of the individual being reported.

 

Everyone else has been talking about the video not something else. Police have no obligation to investigate the report of a legal activity.

 

There is a balance between the laws and officer discretion and judgement, if we want to follow the laws to the T we might aswell have everyone ticked daily for speeding because everyone will go one mile over the speed limit. You cant go with black and white execution of laws on one instance and discretion on another there is a balance.

 

I wasn't talking about laws. I was talking about rights, specifically, the ones they were violating.

 

 

I think the cops were being reasonable and the kid was being a dick and wasting police resources. Had he just shown ID and said I don't consent to this but am doing so under duress and said he is exercising his right to carry, he would have been free to go half way through the video.

 

Violating rights is not reasonable. Being perceived as a dick is not a crime. He wasn't wasting police resources, he didn't call them. They came, and stayed, by their choice. He wanted them to leave. No idea how you can even rationalize that HE was the one wasting anyones time watching that video. You don't have to comply with requests that are not obligatory.

 

And the conjecture that simply giving ID and saying you are comply under duress would have allowed him to be released from the unlawful detainment earlier is just that, conjecture. In fact, there might even be videos of just that...that don't work out so well. But let us not get little things like that get in the way.

 

Any answer to my previous questions though?

 

"2. You saw the video, were you suspicious that he was committing a crime, about to commit a crime, or just had committed a crime?

3. What does someone's name have to do with committing a crime? Do certain names lead someone to commit or not commit a crime?"

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It is the way he went about it. They are simply doing their job and he didn't have to be an arrogant piece of shit! Sure he is right and no one disagrees but to put yourself in that situation to simply make the officer look bad is punkish to me!

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I have to agree with Bones here. In a state where open carrying a handgun or long gun is not unlawful, the mere presence of a firearm does not give the police the right to "check and make sure everything is ok."

 

To say that would be to say the police can pull over any car they wish, just to make sure that you have a valid DL.

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So doing something a different way then you would do something makes someone a douche? Well, I wouldn't have said he is a douche...so using the same logic, I guess you must be one???

 

Sure man... I'm a douche... there, happy? Did you think that would hurt my feelings? LOL! Grow the f*ck up.

 

The kid IS a douchebag... He's trying to provoke the cops to make these stupid videos and the whole time gives them his little douchebag attitude. Throughout the video he keeps saying "Don't you know who I am? I was in the newspaper!" It's like he's playing a game with them and he's obviously making these videos to get attention. Nobody is saying that he needs to be subservient to the cops, or that he has to get on his knees and kiss their ass, but for f*cks sake... a little respect for the LEO's would be nice. The cops are being resepctful and very cool with him and he's just being a little douchebag with his little attitude. They didn't just stop to harrass him... They had received calls from people in the town that someone was walking around with a long gun. After the calls they got from people they obviously just wanted to make sure he wasn't some nutjob walking around town with a long gun slung over his shoulder and looking to go shoot someone. I'm sure if he just was cooperative with them, they would have just checked out his ID and let him go on his merry little way.

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It is the way he went about it. They are simply doing their job and he didn't have to be an arrogant piece of shit! Sure he is right and no one disagrees but to put yourself in that situation to simply make the officer look bad is punkish to me!

 

+1000 It's obvious the kid is being a little punk, just to provoke the cops for his stupid videos. Maybe his mommy and daddy didn't give him enough attention when he was a kid and he's trying to get attention from doing stupid shit like this.

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there seems to be a lot of confusion here... a lot of people stating the police were just "doing their job"

 

in states that allow open carry... it is not the job of the police to stop and interrogate you..

 

the LAW dictates you are allowed to openly carry a gun.. there is NO obligation for the police to intervene.. there is NO reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed.... it is like me calling the police and saying I saw some guy with a really fast looking car... he might be about to speed... you should check it out... so having committed no crime you are pulled over and investigated because someone assumes you might be a threat....

 

police investigate crimes....

 

further in the state these were filmed there is no duty to identify yourself to the police... this is why BOTH encounters ended with the individual not identifying themselves... they were within the law..

 

I am NOT playing the PA card... but I live in a community where I can open carry EVERYWHERE I go.. like to put it into perspective.. guns are so normal you could walk into the bank and make a deposit.. with a 1911 on your hip.. the point is having a gun... is not an indication of criminal activity... it is not reasonable suspicion of a crime...

 

with no crime or even reasonable suspicion of a crime.. please explain how the police were just "doing their jobs"... keeping in mind "a man with a gun" is the same as "a man with a pocket knife" or "a man with a car"

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They had received a call from people in the town that someone was walking around with a long gun.

 

which in this state... and many others is perfectly legal... requires no licensing... and requires no obligation to explain..

 

 

 

further.. in reading into this.. I am going to assume this is not the first time he has been harassed... he knew the name of at least one other cop.. was in an article in the paper... this tells me this is an ongoing situation... his attitude may have something to do with being constantly badgered..

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Him being argumentative just to get a rise out of people is the problem I have with this nonsense. I fully support those who wish to exercise their open carry rights, but having some respect for your fellow man goes a long way. Forget that they're cops, just have some common decency and treat them like humans, and not be an argumentative douchebag.

 

I was confronted by a resident who lives next to my hunting grounds, who came up to me in a macho-type manor demanding to know what I was doing there. Instead of reacting negatively, I smiled, introduced myself, and shook his hand. Then went on to explain that I had secured the proper permits to hunt the property, and that I was doing just that. I even went above and beyond and explained the 450' safety zone rule, and assured him that I never even aimed my shotgun towards any homes, regardless of how far away I was.

 

Guess what? Now that guy smiles and waves every time he sees me, and even asks if I have any luck.

 

What BLF says is right. There's a proper way to do things like this, and what this asshat is doing, is not the right way.

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Him being argumentative just to get a rise out of people is the problem I have with this nonsense. I fully support those who wish to exercise their open carry rights, but having some respect for your fellow man goes a long way. Forget that they're cops, just have some common decency and treat them like humans, and not be an argumentative douchebag.

 

I was confronted by a resident who lives next to my hunting grounds, who came up to me in a macho-type manor demanding to know what I was doing there. Instead of reacting negatively, I smiled, introduced myself, and shook his hand. Then went on to explain that I had secured the proper permits to hunt the property, and that I was doing just that. I even went above and beyond and explained the 450' safety zone rule, and assured him that I never even aimed my shotgun towards any homes, regardless of how far away I was.

 

Guess what? Now that guy smiles and waves every time he sees me, and even asks if I have any luck.

 

What BLF says is right. There's a proper way to do things like this, and what this asshat is doing, is not the right way.

 

WELL SAID!!

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I completely understand it from both sides... yes, he is a douche bag.... in the way he cut off the police officers from speaking.... however he is a necessary douche.... for if it was not for people like him, cops and anti gun people would not even know it is legal to open carry a gun.

 

Was he within his rights? Absolutely. Were the cops that responded acted inappropriately? No.... nor do I think they had a choice to tell the dispatchers to fugg off just because someone is open carrying.

 

I can guarantee you, the next time, that officer would know the proper way to respond.

 

Would I act that way? Nope, but I would not walk around with an AK either, I would either Conceal Carry or open carry a 1911, and no one would care....

 

The first video, I agree with others, it should of been nipped and stopped at dispatch, and hopefully the town's folks are more aware of their legal rights.

 

If a right is not being exercised, it will soon be taken away....much like why we are so screwed in the state.

 

Unfortunately, if everyone acted nicely, introduced themselves, gave out their ID.... they would soon start requiring FID's in the state. Ie... being "Progressive"

 

Do I feel bad for the cops for having to deal with this? Yes.... but it is their job to deal with this and know how to respond. It will only be normal if more and more people do it. If as many people Open Carried AR-15's as they open carry handguns, I can guarantee those calls would stop. You don't become a trash collector and then complain about the smells and being dirty. You can't become a Law Enforcement Officer and be bitchy when someone exercises their rights and makes your job more difficult. If you are a Law Enforcement Officer, you probably need to know the laws, or if you don't.... Ask. As with any job, there will be good situations and bad situations.

 

 

Some people drive drunk, but it does not mean everyone should have to blow into a Breathalyzer when getting into their cars.

 

Reasonable gun control is why we have 15 round magazine limits, One Gun a Month, the Firearms Identification Cards, Pistol Purchase Permits.

 

Not exercising your rights is how it all starts.

 

I salute this guy for doing this. I salute the cops for refraining themselves and acting professionally.

For next time... the OC'er should make his point without being disrespectful, and let the other person speak without cutting them off.

The cops better learn the laws they were hired to uphold.

 

Video 2 is a great example of an LEO who knew how to handle the situation, and knew the delicate balance of how to do his job and what is expected of him, without trampling on the rights of the citizens and the constitution he swore to protect.

 

More power to the Open Carry guys, but they need to work on their people skills. =)

 

I respect LEO', I shoot with many and I work with a few who are clients. However.... even though I know 90% are nice guys, I still have the expectation that you know your job, and realize that a badge does not give respect by default, it must be earned by your actions and interactions with others. When I meet someone new for the first time, I treat them as I want to be treated with respect, in order to earn it. We all breathe the same air, and no matter what the occupation anyone chose to earn money, one occupation does not make you holier. You did not enlist to serve on the front lines of Iraq/Afganistan after 9/11 for chump change, or were drafted to serve your country. We all choose our occupation, and are expected to know our jobs. we weigh out the risks with the rewards. And the vast majority are awesome people... but you have trash as well, who stand by while some nut job stabs a person in a Subway Station while they watch, and then claim... "We do not have the constitutional duty to protect you."

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I find it pretty embarrassing and sad that so many of you that seemingly support the 2nd HATE when people exercise it, as well as their 1st and 4th.

+10!^^^^^ Amazing and agree! This is not about being politically correct - it is about DEMANDING OUR RIGHTs! Only way you get anything in this country. Think of past movements where a group has been singled out like we are being singled out now. They won by fighting (within the law of course), not complying and being PC...What has being PC got us? Stand and Fight! (NRA slogan). -Folks want to bash this Kid for being brave, in the law, and excercising his rights? Are you kidding? Shame, shame, shame, on you.

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1. Protocol does not supersede the Constitution, no matter how you try to justify it.

2. You saw the video, were you suspicious that he was committing a crime, about to commit a crime, or just had committed a crime?

3. What does someone's name have to do with committing a crime? Do certain names lead someone to commit or not commit a crime?

 

What about the name Osama Bin Laden...

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Vladtepes and Pizza Bob got this right. You have to look at this without a New Jersey mentality. Take a ride somewhere outside of NJ into "almost free america" and you'll see a big difference on how firearms are viewed.

 

The dispatcher should have cut this off at the beginning and explained the law to the caller so that he would understand what was going on. People need to be conditioned that it's OK to carry a firearm and that criminals are not the only ones that have them. This incident should not have even happened.

 

It's a shame that some on this board are fighting for the same rights, but still view it with a New Jersey mind set. Aren't we all fighting for the same right? Sometimes the line needs to be drawn in the sand to get change, and some will be offended by it.

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Vladtepes and Pizza Bob got this right. You have to look at this without a New Jersey mentality. Take a ride somewhere outside of NJ into "almost free america" and you'll see a big difference on how firearms are viewed. The dispatcher should have cut this off at the beginning and explained the law to the caller so that he would understand what was going on. People need to be conditioned that it's OK to carry a firearm and that criminals are not the only ones that have them. This incident should not have even happened. It's a shame that some on this board are fighting for the same rights, but still view it with a New Jersey mind set. Aren't we all fighting for the same right? Sometimes the line needs to be drawn in the sand to get change, and some will be offended by it.

 

I don't disagree.. at the same time, change comes in degrees and you can't expect people (civilians or dispatchers) to change overnight. While I think the guy in the video can come across as a douche sometimes, he is doing the right thing in that he's creating the situations and educating people. Eventually it will be common enough that cops, dispatchers, and civilians won't make a big deal about it.

 

Until then I would be ok with with interactions like #83 and #84 above.. cop shows up, interacts with them, and leaves. In fact in #83 the cop says several times that they were free to just walk away at any time but that he would like to have their ID's and to see the weapon.. I thought "You show me yours, I'll show you mine" was pretty creative.

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