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Silent Service

This kids got stones - Refuse's search & ID by LEO's

By Silent Service, in General Discussion

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ryan_j    0

ryan_j
Posted

The kid wasn't doing anything wrong.

 

We have become so accustomed to blindly obeying the police that we see what this kid did as wrong. Showing your driver license when pulled over while driving is a totally different thing from the cops asking for ID of a pedestrian.

 

Notice how they try to paint him as a criminal, bringing up his past "trespassing" incidents and using that to justify a search.

 

Think of it - how can we defend the second amendment when we think it's OK for the Gov't to trample on the rest? The 4th and the 5th, specifically and probably the 1st as well.

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ryan_j    0

ryan_j
Posted

Every time you post my man crush for you grows :blush:

 

Maybe it's just me, but I find the whole "Can I see your ID" or "Papers please" disturbing on a very deep level. There are certainly lots of Americans who find nothing wrong with that, but for me all it brings up is images of Gestapo and the secret police forces of the Soviet Block. It's the same with the "If you see something, say something" campaign. I get it's meant in a "good" way, but all I think when I see those posters are the report on your neighbor tactics of the aforementioned regimes.

 

Absolutely this.

 

There are also checkpoints run by the border patrol within the united states, over 50 miles from our international border where they stop people and ask their citizenship and even ask to search the vehicle. I wouldn't consent to that search and I wouldn't answer. I'm not crossing an international border and the border patrol has no business asking me about my citizenship and certainly not for any papers!

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vladtepes    1,060

vladtepes
Posted

I understand the guys point of view. However in todays nanny society, law abiding firearms owners are lumped into the pot with the crazies. It seems to me like it puts the police in a tuff spot.

 

I think it depends on where you live.. I was so conditioned to feel like a crazy person for liking firearms that when I called to set up an appointment with the sheriff in my county to file paperwork for a short barrel rifle (I am in PA) that I was hesitant.. I thought how will I justify wanting to make a rifle with a 7in barrel.... he honestly did not even seem to care.. I have the appointment tomorrow.. he said "just bring the paperwork by and I will sign it.. " he didn't interrogate me.. he didn't try to make me feel like an idiot for wanting something like that.. in fact he did not even question it..

 

so I really think it depends on where you are.. there are entire states standing up to the fed telling them NO new gun laws..

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vladtepes    1,060

vladtepes
Posted

Nothing like wasting people's time. Again..I think there are far more productive ways to get your point across

 

as someone else pointed.. it should have been stopped at the level of dispatch...

 

if they are called constantly.. eventually the police will get tired of it.. and they will start to tell people it is not illegal...

the issue with these cops is they are ill informed.. one says hes detained.. the other does not.. when he tells the cop that Oregon does not have a stop and identify law, he looks confused.. and looks back to the other cop... it was obvious that the cop was doing what he thought was logical.. and not what the law dictates... I am not interested in effing with the police for no reason... but I feel like they should know the rules just as I am required to....

 

here is a situation that goes entirely different..

the kid tries to play cool guy.. and the cop totally owns him.. goes through the motions without getting baited in to some nonsense.. and is on his way...

 

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BlueLineFish    615

BlueLineFish
Posted

I fully agree that the second encounter posted was much better. Well informed officer. The big thing is the appearance of what may be a full auto rifle. The check of that does would allow a stop. What are the laws in Oregon..don't know. Maybe they are similar to the ones in the second video. If so then the Oregon officers could have approached the encounter in a similar fashion

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vladtepes    1,060

vladtepes
Posted

I fully agree that the second encounter posted was much better. Well informed officer. The big thing is the appearance of what may be a full auto rifle. The check of that does would allow a stop. What are the laws in Oregon..don't know. Maybe they are similar to the ones in the second video. If so then the Oregon officers could have approached the encounter in a similar fashion

 

I am sure you are aware.. but there are states that do not call for stop and identify... without reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed and that was the whole point in the first video... he is saying "I have a gun.. carrying in a lawful passive way.... that is not illegal.. so don't label me as a criminal simply for doing this"... the difference is as you stated in the second video the officer explained that his concern was that it was a automatic firearm... notice once he established it was not... he did not even ask for ID... he followed the law.. and that is all we ask for..

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P4Plenty    1

P4Plenty
Posted

2nd video was great..

 

I like this guy too

 

Could you imagine what would happen if we all open carried in Trenton on Friday? They would lose their minds. I'm not for open carry I always carry concealed but I've seen guys in the bar in pa with a gun on their hip and didn't even look twice. Okay maybe twice just to see what kinda pistol it was lol

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ryan_j    0

ryan_j
Posted

So I remember that video of the Oceanside cop and the guy open carrying. California actually allowed you to open carry an unloaded firearm, silly as it seems. Jerry Brown outlawed that in 2011 though.

 

Oceanside is a nice town but some areas can be a little rough. I was there not too long ago and also at nearby Camp Pendleton.

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71ragtopgoat    23

71ragtopgoat
Posted

I dont know I see it as sort of a double edge sword type of thing. The cops need to do something . If he was walking around my block and the wife and kids got scared and I saw the police as helpless to resolve it. It would not be too long before I exercised my right to teach the young man about the proper way to behave in a civil society visa vie a knuckle sandwich.

But I guess thats how things are supposed to work sometimes.

I think his point is valid however timing is everything

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vladtepes    1,060

vladtepes
Posted

they stopped him to investigate. Nothing more. He wasn't cuffed and tossed in a car to be hauled off to jail. if i get sued evey time i investigate something its going to be a short career. His rights were not violated.

 

they created a situation where he was being detained... I do not believe that states laws allow for an individual to be detained just because of openly carrying a gun... I open carry a gun.. I have at times open carried a full size glock with a 22 round mag hanging out of it.... if I was ever confronted about it.. I would be more respectful, as I am not confrontational... but I would also not stand there all day playing Q&A... I would also not surrender my firearm... and if the LEO insisted I would follow up with a complaint... I respect cops.. they do a hard job... but I demand that same respect back.. that's all..

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vladtepes    1,060

vladtepes
Posted

i am going to refrain from.offering any more into this. I may be looking into this from my perspective with the laws here. Since i don't know the legalities of oregon i won't speak on it anymore

 

I don't see anything wrong with posting your opinion.. you are certainly entitled to it... but you are right... different area.. different situation... even taking PA... where I live in the middle of nowhere a handgun on your hip with a massive magazine hanging out of it.... probably not even noticed... go to Philly (still in PA) and do the same thing.. and chances are you will at least be talking to the PD...

 

obviously if YOU saw someone carrying.. say concealed but printing or the bottom of a mag sticking out.. it is probably reasonable for you (in NJ) to assume they do not have a license to carry a firearm...it is probably reasonable for you to stop them.. detain them.. and check... they may be completely legal.. but it is reasonable due to the restrictive laws there that it could be illegal.. similar to the guy with the .22 MP clone..

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Combat Auto    174

Combat Auto
Posted

If he is staying in the law, and it appears that he did as they didn't arrest him - Cops have no right to hassel him...If it is legal to carry open there (apparently it is), they are discriminating against him because he is a gun owner...I find it amazing that some folks here don't support his action - maybe you've lived in NJ too long.

 

 

Kid has alot of guts....Lot more than I would have in a similiar situation.

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