Pennsylvania No Longer Recognizes Florida Non-Res

[mipafox 438]

According to a post on PAFOA this morning, it appears that PA AG Kane is going after VA reciprocity next.

 

I don't know if it will make a difference, but consider this.  FL does not honor non-resident permits, except their own.  She could get more pushback from other states since most states do not have such a rule.  

 

This is the only reason I did not lobby FL to drop all reciprocity with PA.  Not that my protestations would necessarily make a difference.  But it would be pretty tough with FL since that's the way they run things for their own state anyway.

[ryan_j 0]

I don't know if it will make a difference, but consider this. FL does not honor non-resident permits, except their own. She could get more pushback from other states since most states do not have such a rule.

 

This is the only reason I did not lobby FL to drop all reciprocity with PA. Not that my protestations would necessarily make a difference. But it would be pretty tough with FL since that's the way they run things for their own state anyway.

 

The big difference with FL is that they will issue non-residents a permit even if they don't have one from their home state.

 

PA will not.

 

PA will issue a permit only if you have one from your own state, OR your state doesn't issue permits at all (Illinois). Since NJ has "may issue" and everyone thinks we issue CCW permits, they won't issue to us unless we have a NJ permit.

[NJDrew1 0]

The big difference with FL is that they will issue non-residents a permit even if they don't have one from their home state.

 

PA will not.

 

PA will issue a permit only if you have one from your own state, OR your state doesn't issue permits at all (Illinois). Since NJ has "may issue" and everyone thinks we issue CCW permits, they won't issue to us unless we have a NJ permit.

That's exactly the answer I got from the PA AG's office and the Bucks County Sheriff.

[mipafox 438]

The big difference with FL is that they will issue non-residents a permit even if they don't have one from their home state.

 

PA will not.

 

PA will issue a permit only if you have one from your own state, OR your state doesn't issue permits at all (Illinois). Since NJ has "may issue" and everyone thinks we issue CCW permits, they won't issue to us unless we have a NJ permit.

 

Not sure if you understand the point I was trying to make. Only a handful of states don't recognize non-resident permits from the states they have reciprocity with. Florida is one of those states. So, when the PA AG said to Florida, "We want a new agreement with you that says PA will not recognize non-resident FL permits," I can only assume FL said, "What took you so long? That's what we do."

[ryan_j 0]

Not sure if you understand the point I was trying to make. Only a handful of states don't recognize non-resident permits from the states they have reciprocity with. Florida is one of those states. So, when the PA AG said to Florida, "We want a new agreement with you that says PA will not recognize non-resident FL permits," I can only assume FL said, "What took you so long? That's what we do."

 

Understood, but what I was saying was that even if FL recognizes resident or its own permits only, it wouldn't matter because a NJ resident could get a FL permit which would be good in Florida along with a bunch of other states. So I'd get the Florida permit because it is good in Florida along with other states.

 

This brings me to Pennsylvania. I would absolutely gladly get a permit from Pennsylvania if I could. That would be my preference because Pennsylvania is where I would carry mostly anyway. But I can't, because they have the rule that you must have a permit from your home state first, which we mere mortals obviously cannot get. So either I get a permit from another state like UT, VA, AZ (or FL, until now) or I don't carry, or I open carry (no permit needed), and I don't like to open carry. But if they take away the option to use an out of state permit only, I'm SOL because I can't get a PA permit. At least with FL I could get a FL permit and carry there even though they only recognize resident permits.

 

Clear now?

[mipafox 438]

This brings me to Pennsylvania. I would absolutely gladly get a permit from Pennsylvania if I could. That would be my preference because Pennsylvania is where I would carry mostly anyway. But I can't, because they have the rule that you must have a permit from your home state first, which we mere mortals obviously cannot get. So either I get a permit from another state like UT, VA, AZ (or FL, until now) or I don't carry, or I open carry (no permit needed), and I don't like to open carry. But if they take away the option to use an out of state permit only, I'm SOL because I can't get a PA permit. At least with FL I could get a FL permit and carry there even though they only recognize resident permits.

 

Clear now?

 

 

It's likely not possible for you to OC without a permit in PA.  You can't transport a handgun by any vehicle (including car, bike, rollerskates, skateboard) anywhere in PA except to and from the range, and a few other exceptions.  It's pretty much the same as Jersey.  I guess you could walk to PA from Jersey and OC.

 

Clear now?

[ryan_j 0]

It's likely not possible for you to OC without a permit in PA. You can't transport a handgun by any vehicle (including car, bike, rollerskates, skateboard) anywhere in PA except to and from the range, and a few other exceptions. It's pretty much the same as Jersey. I guess you could walk to PA from Jersey and OC.

 

Clear now?

 

If I have a permit from any state, I can transport it in a vehicle. So that means my now not recognized Florida permit is good for vehicle carry.

 

And as you said, OC requires no permit (except in philadelphia).

[mipafox 438]

Yup. Hope it helps. But I think you already knew and we were clarifying for other readers, which is good as well.

[Fawkesguy 57]

OK so i guess its time to start looking at UT.. what are the details on that? Can anyone point me to a thread??

 

Got my UT through Green Academy. Informative and fun class. http://gappnj.com/upcoming_courses/utfl_ccw

[AlexTheSane 236]

 

Got my UT through Green Academy. Informative and fun class. http://gappnj.com/upcoming_courses/utfl_ccw

 

Signed up for the May class. Can't wait.

[Rifleman1 32]

If I have a permit from any state, I can transport it in a vehicle. So that means my now not recognized Florida permit is good for vehicle carry. And as you said, OC requires no permit (except in philadelphia).

 

Open Carry in NH in a vehicle requires a permit. This stuff can make you as confused as a newborn in a topless bar. I had to put together a spreadsheet for my permits to show which are good in which states so I can look at the state I am traveling to and see which permit is valid.

 

CCW Coverage

[mipafox 438]

Open Carry in NH in a vehicle requires a permit. This stuff can make you as confused as a newborn in a topless bar. I had to put together a spreadsheet for my permits to show which are good in which states so I can look at the state I am traveling to and see which permit is valid.

 

CCW Coverage

 

It would have been a lot easier to go here:handgunlaw.us

 

They did it for you, and they did it better.

 

Regardless, there is a hell of a lot more to know than where your "permit" is "valid."

 

Do you have a duty to inform LEO you are carrying?

 

Can you carry at reststops or welcome centers when you enter the state?

 

Can you carry in restaurants that serve alcohol?

 

Can you carry at public gatherings?

 

Can you carry on municipal property?

 

Can you carry at concerts, plays, movies, public performances, or walking past street jugglers?

 

Do "No Guns" signs have weight of law?

 

Can you carry at Churches?

 

Can you carry on School property or in schools?

 

Can you carry on College campuses?  Some college campuses take up half of a city.

 

Can you car in state parks?

 

State forests?

 

While fishing?

 

I tend to look at the map on handgunlaw.us first to figure out which states I can carry in and which states require FOPA first.  But that's only a small part of it.  After that, I have to review, understand, and print out all the stupid laws and restrictions that places like Texas have unlike places like PA, to throw out the two extremes.

[Rifleman1 32]

It would have been a lot easier to go here:handgunlaw.us

 

They did it for you, and they did it better.

 

Regardless, there is a hell of a lot more to know than where your "permit" is "valid."

 

Do you have a duty to inform LEO you are carrying?

 

Can you carry at reststops or welcome centers when you enter the state?

 

Can you carry in restaurants that serve alcohol?

 

Can you carry at public gatherings?

 

Can you carry on municipal property?

 

Can you carry at concerts, plays, movies, public performances, or walking past street jugglers?

 

Do "No Guns" signs have weight of law?

 

Can you carry at Churches?

 

Can you carry on School property or in schools?

 

Can you carry on College campuses? Some college campuses take up half of a city.

 

Can you car in state parks?

 

State forests?

 

While fishing?

 

I tend to look at the map on handgunlaw.us first to figure out which states I can carry in and which states require FOPA first. But that's only a small part of it. After that, I have to review, understand, and print out all the stupid laws and restrictions that places like Texas have unlike places like PA, to throw out the two extremes.

 

I did that first and that is my source but it's easier to see the states lined up in a column rather than just a list. It helped me determine what permits would be most beneficial to get and It was helpful to only list my permits and where I was good to go based on the states that I travel to frequently. More information about other requirements for the trip planning is certainly required due diligence based on where I am going and what I will be doing.

 

Before I travel, I review the requirements of each state affected by my trip similar to preparing my flight plan and calculating the aircraft weight & balance for the flight.

[ryan_j 0]

Open Carry in NH in a vehicle requires a permit.

 

I was talking about in PA. OC doesn't require a permit in PA.

[mipafox 438]

I was talking about in PA. OC doesn't require a permit in PA.

 

Any transport of a handgun in a vehicle requires a permit in PA. Even unloaded and boxed in the trunk. Except for to and from the range, etc., similar to Jersey.

 

You can walk to PA with a handgun OC if you like.

[Rifleman1 32]

I was talking about in PA. OC doesn't require a permit in PA.

 

But OC in a vehicle in PA requires a permit and the FL Non-resident may no longer be good for that since reciprocity is gone.

[mipafox 438]

But OC in a vehicle in PA requires a permit and the FL Non-resident may no longer be good for that since reciprocity is gone.

 

Any transport in a vehicle in PA requires a permit. Not just carry. It's almost the same as Jersey.

 

Having an unloaded handgun in a trunk in PA will send you to prison.

 

But a carry permit from any of the 49 states, including FL, will allow you to not only transport but also carry in a car.

[ryan_j 0]

But OC in a vehicle in PA requires a permit and the FL Non-resident may no longer be good for that since reciprocity is gone.

 

There's no "may not" the law is pretty clear.

 

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.061.006.000..HTM

§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

(a) Offense defined.--

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who

carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a

firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place

of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and

lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony

of the third degree.

(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a

valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any

vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or

about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place

of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and

has not committed any other criminal violation commits a

misdemeanor of the first degree.

(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not

apply to:

...

 

(11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle,

which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license

for that firearm which has been issued <u>under the laws of the

United States or any other state

 

So you can happily carry on with your FL CCW. Carry in your vehicle under the FL permit and open carry without a permit. Just be prepared for law enforcement harrassment if you OC, and don't OC in Philadelphia.

[ryan_j 0]

Looks like Maine in PA is now resident only, so if you were considering getting a maine permit to carry in PA, don't bother.

 

http://www.handgunla...Reciprocity.pdf

 

4/1/13 - PA Only Honors Maine Resident Permit

 

Haven't seen it anywhere else, but I did read the agreement on the PA AG page, and apparently it has been that way since 2011.

 

For those in PA - is it possible to recall your AG? Please, pretty please?

[mipafox 438]

4/1/13 - PA Only Honors Maine Resident Permit

 

Haven't seen it anywhere else, but I did read the agreement on the PA AG page, and apparently it has been that way since 2011.

It's been that way since 2011 because that's the way Maine rolls and 2011 was the year PA and ME signed reciprocity. I know this because my F$%#^#%$^ Maine application and money order passed the damn reciprocity agreement in the mail.

 

 

For those in PA - is it possible to recall your AG? Please, pretty please?

 

It's "possible" for you to do it.

[ryan_j 0]

The moral of the story here is never trust the maps you see on websites. Look at the laws/agreements yourself.

[Jon 264]

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/53610-news-regarding-pa-ccw-reciprocity/