Analysis of Assembly Bills to be Heard

[kahout 0]

I think that, with a lot of them, it isn't really about changing their minds. It's about forcing them to ask themselves "are these bills important enough to have the office phone, fax & email exploding for weeks to come?". I.E. Making it cost something for them to keep towing the line on the anti-gun offensive.

No argument, but these politicians, if even in their offices, shut the door to all the noise. The people who are receiving these faxes, phone calls, and emails may well get annoyed and frustrated. Some may agree with us, but they are all paid staff, and paid for by our tax dollars.

 

The politicians.... just another day. Does it cost them something? I think the majority are more concerned to hold the party line and to be reelected.

 

I even sent my concerns to those that have publicly expressed their support for us.... just to keep them on their toes.

[Bob2222 316]

Gov receives NJ task force recommendations ... he agrees... 10 rounds etc...

 

Bills come to his desk as presented OUT of the legislature and he signs the ones that coincide with the task force recs....vetoes others...

 

 

If I look at the makeup of the NJ SAFE task force, there is one person on it that I'm confident knows the difference between a 15 round magazine, a 10 round magazine and a Pez dispenser.

 

I don't think that will be their focus, and I don't think agreeing with the legislature on ANY of this will get him through the red state primaries and into the Oval Office -- or the Naval Observatory. This will NOT fly in Louisiana, Arizona and Texas. There is a risk that he'll annoy enough soccer moms Volvo Republicans to lose the governor's race in November -- but that was a risk in vetoing gay marriage and the minimum wage increase, too. He mostly annoyed people who wouldn't dream of voting for him anyway.

[SgtToadette 59]

Please for the love of all that's holy, fact check your statements if you plan on speaking tomorrow or emailing.

 

Some of what the attached analysis is simply wrong. I made note of the errors in another thread. Please don't make us all look foolish by not fact checking your statement. If you have the time to write you have the time to fact-check. Actually read the bills and understand what they actually say.

[lunker 274]

http://www.njleg.sta.../legprocess.asp

 

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That is the opposite of how it works at the Presidential level. The NJ Gov has a pocket Approval instead of Veto.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

That is the opposite of how it works at the Presidential level.

 

I guess that is what I was thinking. Thanks Bob, I stand corrected.

[Maksim 1,504]

So.... I send emails with delivery and read receipts.... Mainor's office.... "Deleted, not read"

 

yep. wtf.

[lunker 274]

So.... I send emails with delivery and read receipts.... Mainor's office.... "Deleted, not read"

 

yep. wtf.

 

Maks, in Microsoft Outlook you can view an e-mail's contents in the preview pane and it does not show up as read. If you were to delete the e-mail, it would show up as deleted and unread.

Although, in our case I am sure that they simply deleted them without reading.

[Bob2222 316]

I guess that is what I was thinking. Thanks Bob, I stand corrected.

 

That 45-day to sign-or-veto is one of the longest windows of any state.

 

Christie is a very talented lawyer and politician. I expect to see a ballet performance from him that will put S.E. Cupp to shame!

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

Slight inaccuracies in ANJPRC's analysis of the bills from what I've read so far (note that I'm not advocating for any of these bills or saying that they're acceptable, only that ANJPRC's analysis is not completely accurate in all cases):

 

A588 (Spencer / Coutinho / Deignan) – Prohibits possession of ammunition capable of penetrating body armor.

 

ANJPRC - Analysis: effectively bans most rifle rounds (most body armor worn by police are only designed to stop handgun rounds. Armor that stops rifle rounds is available, but not in common usage). Gives Attorney General unilateral authority to ban specific rounds. Well intentioned or not, this would ban most rifle ammunition, which would render most rifles useless in the Garden State, including single shot rifles.

 

My take: A588 only prohibits certain *HANDGUN* ammunition and does not regulate any rifle/shotgun ammunition.

 

---

 

A1329 (Greenwald / Quijano / Coutinho) – Reduces maximum capacity of ammunition magazines to 10 rounds

 

ANJPRC - Reduces magazine capacity limit from 15 to 10 rounds. Interferes with self-defense, puts law-abiding citizens at a disadvantage in home invasions and other emergencies. Will not stop another tragedy, as magazines are capable of being changed quickly.

 

My take: A1329 reduces magazine capacity for **semi-automatic rifles only**, not for all firearms.

[Zell959 40]

Read the bills for myself and see what some are talking about. Now I feel lazy & clueless for having referenced flawed analysis when writing my e-mails

[kahout 0]

Slight inaccuracies in ANJPRC's analysis of the bills from what I've read so far (note that I'm not advocating for any of these bills or saying that they're acceptable, only that ANJPRC's analysis is not completely accurate in all cases):

 

A1329 (Greenwald / Quijano / Coutinho) – Reduces maximum capacity of ammunition magazines to 10 rounds

 

ANJPRC - Reduces magazine capacity limit from 15 to 10 rounds. Interferes with self-defense, puts law-abiding citizens at a disadvantage in home invasions and other emergencies. Will not stop another tragedy, as magazines are capable of being changed quickly.

 

My take: A1329 reduces magazine capacity for **semi-automatic rifles only**, not for all firearms.

 

Talk about going off half-cocked...

"(4) A semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding [15] 10 rounds."

[TooBigToFit 2]

Slight inaccuracies in ANJPRC's analysis of the bills from what I've read so far (note that I'm not advocating for any of these bills or saying that they're acceptable, only that ANJPRC's analysis is not completely accurate in all cases):

 

A588 (Spencer / Coutinho / Deignan) – Prohibits possession of ammunition capable of penetrating body armor.

 

ANJPRC - Analysis: effectively bans most rifle rounds (most body armor worn by police are only designed to stop handgun rounds. Armor that stops rifle rounds is available, but not in common usage). Gives Attorney General unilateral authority to ban specific rounds. Well intentioned or not, this would ban most rifle ammunition, which would render most rifles useless in the Garden State, including single shot rifles.

 

My take: A588 only prohibits certain *HANDGUN* ammunition and does not regulate any rifle/shotgun ammunition.

 

---

 

A1329 (Greenwald / Quijano / Coutinho) – Reduces maximum capacity of ammunition magazines to 10 rounds

 

ANJPRC - Reduces magazine capacity limit from 15 to 10 rounds. Interferes with self-defense, puts law-abiding citizens at a disadvantage in home invasions and other emergencies. Will not stop another tragedy, as magazines are capable of being changed quickly.

 

My take: A1329 reduces magazine capacity for **semi-automatic rifles only**, not for all firearms.

 

Hmm... just noticed that. The statement on the bill seems to imply they wish to do it for all magazines, but the text of the bill itself seems to only say semi auto rifle magazines.

[PDM 91]

I believe they screwed this up before. There are two places in the statute that refer to magazine capacity if I recall (don't have it in front of me). They only covered one apparently. It is abundantly clear that they don't bother reading, let alone thinking about, the bills that they spew forth.

[NJCK 5]

Yes, you guys are seeing what I've been making noise over - the Bills are poorly written and dangerous as such! The ANJPRC assessment of the Bills has a number of flaws and I don't care for their approach. I prefer technical-based arguments with fact. As others have stated, FACT-CHECK and please do not use the ANJPRC's rebuttal as a script. They'll do that themselves.

 

I do not know how they are going to handle 300+ showing up given the size of the room and severly short time they've assigned to hear these Bills ala the ramrod approach.

 

Just remember to provide testimony you need to sign up on the sheet that's normally located on a table just inside of the doors to the room.

[iRescue 0]

So.

 

I emailed everyone again. Then I picked up the phone and called..

 

Overall everyone was pretty nice. Most democrat offices took a name. Republicans were awesome. Had nice conversations with them. All of the offices seem to be overwhelmed so KEEP CALLING!!!!

 

and then there was Cryan's office. THEY FUGGING HUNG UP ON ME!!

 

I said: "Hello, I wanted to follow up with your office regarding an email I sent this week opposing the measures being brought up in tomorrow's Public Safety committee hearing"......DIAL TONE.

 

Called back..."I think we got disconnected I just called...." DIAL TONE!!!

 

I AM LIVID.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

So.

 

I emailed everyone again. Then I picked up the phone and called..

 

Overall everyone was pretty nice. Most democrat offices took a name. Republicans were awesome. Had nice conversations with them. All of the offices seem to be overwhelmed so KEEP CALLING!!!!

 

and then there was Cryan's office. THEY FUGGING HUNG UP ON ME!!

 

I said: "Hello, I wanted to follow up with your office regarding an email I sent this week opposing the measures being brought up in tomorrow's Public Safety committee hearing"......DIAL TONE.

 

Called back..."I think we got disconnected I just called...." DIAL TONE!!!

 

I AM LIVID.

 

What is his #?

[Underdog 1,593]

Well put. But, proof read!

 

You are also missing a 'not' in there after law abiding citizens.

[Underdog 1,593]

Here is a possible rough draft:

 

As a citizen of New Jersey, I am very troubled by the proposed bills that are being discussed on February 13, 2013, at the State House in Trenton. Upon examining the bills, it is apparent that they are not designed to make schools safer, and they aren’t designed to make the general public safer, either, but rather, these proposed laws are designed to be a direct assault on the citizen, the legal property of the citizen, the right of the citizen to protect him or herself, and on the 2^nd Amendment. The only groups of people these laws will benefit are the criminal element amongst us, and the self-serving politicians that would put politics ahead of the people and the people’s safety that they were entrusted with.

 

These laws have little or no impact on criminals, and they do not have an impact on improving school safety. They do not address any meaningful thing that could be done to deter another tragedy like that in Connecticut from happening again, but rather, they put the honest, law-abiding citizen at risk and open that citizen and his or her family to further legal and criminal jeopardy, while increasing the likelihood of the citizen and his or her family of becoming another statistic and a further victim of violence. These proposed bills are not “reasonable”, rather, they represent an unprecedented power grab by government officials of this state who support these bills.

 

I implore you to move cautiously, examine the facts, and to listen to the people that these bills would affect. With a reasonable, measured approach you would come to the conclusion that we need to enforce the laws that are already on the books, and, in many cases change some of those laws we already have that are unjust, irresponsibly written pertaining to controlling firearms in this state. Focus your attention on improving our state and actually protecting its Citizenry and the unalienable rights of the people.

 

As a voice speaking for many, I call to you. NO ADDITIONAL GUN CONTROL FOR NJ. NO ADDITIONAL GUN CONTROL FOR NJ. PERIOD!

[iRescue 0]

Ray Ray:

 

908-624-0880

[NJCK 5]

I'm afraid to say that most of these politicians have their minds made up and have an agenda to follow. I, like you, have voiced my objections to the bills before the Assembly but I have my doubts that I have changed anything. Keep bombarding them I say, at lease we feel better. We will not change anything if we don't speak up.

 

Not to mention if this mess turns into lawsuits to challenge anything that passes, documentation of objections are good things to have. My fax machine saves the receipts electronically, and I've had my email set to get both delivery and read receipts. Like Maks, most of the emails are being deleted without reading, but I have the trail that says they were delivered. The legislative email system is good that way because it's been a necessary function of the system for deadline reasons... It costs me some cash, but I've been sending a round a letters at the beginning of each week Certified with Return Receipt.

 

My own particular disappointment is the letter I received back from District 3 reps I wrote, which, in paraphrase, read that we hear you but guns fall into the wrong hands so we support more gun control. I was flat-out REFUSED a meeting to speak with my representatives about their position on gun control. That's correct, a constituent refused access to his elected representation!

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Ray Ray:

 

908-624-0880

thanks

[iRescue 0]

Let me know how you make out. I think Mr. Cryan has forgotten who is his boss.

[02gixxersix 0]

My email to them. I have already sent emails through Ruger.com and other sites.

 

 

Sir/Ma'am,

I am a New Jersey resident that generally votes Democrat. I am also a gun owner. I vehemently oppose any further legislation that will erode the Constitutional rights of the law-abiding gun owners in this state or any other. I believe that NJ's current system is a good one, with the exception of the fact that it is impossible to obtain a concealed carry permit. I will vote for the opposition of any elected official that supports this attack on the 2nd Amendment. Please stand up and demand more effective enforcement of our current gun laws, as well as a look at the lack of available treatment for the mentally unstable.

 

The law-abiding citizens in this state are not the problem, yet we are the only ones that will be affected by these laws.

 

 

 

Rick Plecenik

[PDM 91]

Demonstrating outside his office might get his attention.

[anactivegrenade 25]

I revised my previous speech. What do you guys think???

 

I am making it clear that I do not believe any of the bills proposed would make a difference in reducing gun-related deaths.

 

My reasoning is that there are two causes for murder, poverty and mental illness, and the proposed bills do nothing for either cause.

 

In this bleak economy, people are resorting to crime to pay for their needs. Since most criminals obtain guns through the black market, any and all of the proposed legislation would only restrict the law-abiding citizens’ ability to fight off criminals. Criminals will still find a way to illegally obtain firearms. I may cite that the Prohibition-era is a prime example of the success of the black market. Just as the critically-acclaimed economist Steven D. Levitt has said in response to gun control, “...regulation of a legal market is bound to fail when a healthy black market exists for the same product.”

 

Columbine, Virginia Tech, Aurora, and Sandy Hook were all performed by people with mental illness. The state of mental healthcare in America is feeble, to say the least. The belief that “removing guns from the hands of law-abiding citizens will put a stop to massacres” is absurd. The mentally-disturbed assailants of the previously-said massacres had planned their attacks, and to say that they couldn’t do it without other means, such as homemade explosives, is naïve.

 

I suggest a few solutions:

 

1. Help improve the economy by relieving the tax burden placed on New Jersey’s citizens. Cut government spending, and allow businesses to grow, so that our citizens can get jobs with decent wages.

 

2. Use the existing government treasury to support the research and treatment of mental illness.

 

In closing, many people are leaving New Jersey because of the high taxes and high-strung regulations that make it hard to live here. If you trample on our right to self-defense even further than it already has been, even more people will leave, too. Besides, how do you expect the government of NJ to stay afloat when there’s no one left in the state to tax?

[SgtToadette 59]

Yes, you guys are seeing what I've been making noise over - the Bills are poorly written and dangerous as such! The ANJPRC assessment of the Bills has a number of flaws and I don't care for their approach. I prefer technical-based arguments with fact. As others have stated, FACT-CHECK and please do not use the ANJPRC's rebuttal as a script. They'll do that themselves.

 

I do not know how they are going to handle 300+ showing up given the size of the room and severly short time they've assigned to hear these Bills ala the ramrod approach.

 

Just remember to provide testimony you need to sign up on the sheet that's normally located on a table just inside of the doors to the room.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you!

[Vlad G 345]

So.... I send emails with delivery and read receipts.... Mainor's office.... "Deleted, not read"

 

yep. wtf.

 

Well tomorrow ask him about it.

[SgtToadette 59]

Oh and quick question: are those of us who submit testimony limited to a specific time frame? I just want to have an idea how much time I have so I don't run over. I've currently timed myself at 8.5 minutes.

[Vlad G 345]

 

ANJPRC - Analysis: effectively bans most rifle rounds (most body armor worn by police are only designed to stop handgun rounds. Armor that stops rifle rounds is available, but not in common usage). Gives Attorney General unilateral authority to ban specific rounds. Well intentioned or not, this would ban most rifle ammunition, which would render most rifles useless in the Garden State, including single shot rifles.

 

My take: A588 only prohibits certain *HANDGUN* ammunition and does not regulate any rifle/shotgun ammunition.

 

Problem: everything is handgun ammo, because nearly every cartridge on earth has been chambered for a TC Contender. This is why we can't import AP rifle ammo.

 

 

A1329 (Greenwald / Quijano / Coutinho) – Reduces maximum capacity of ammunition magazines to 10 rounds

 

ANJPRC - Reduces magazine capacity limit from 15 to 10 rounds. Interferes with self-defense, puts law-abiding citizens at a disadvantage in home invasions and other emergencies. Will not stop another tragedy, as magazines are capable of being changed quickly.

 

My take: A1329 reduces magazine capacity for **semi-automatic rifles only**, not for all firearms.

 

So how is their analysis wrong? What if you intend to defend your home with an AR??

[Vlad G 345]

So.

 

I emailed everyone again. Then I picked up the phone and called..

 

Overall everyone was pretty nice. Most democrat offices took a name. Republicans were awesome. Had nice conversations with them. All of the offices seem to be overwhelmed so KEEP CALLING!!!!

 

and then there was Cryan's office. THEY FUGGING HUNG UP ON ME!!

 

I said: "Hello, I wanted to follow up with your office regarding an email I sent this week opposing the measures being brought up in tomorrow's Public Safety committee hearing"......DIAL TONE.

 

Called back..."I think we got disconnected I just called...." DIAL TONE!!!

 

I AM LIVID.

 

When I called them Cryans office never picked up the phone and the voicemail was full