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BERTUS

Defensive Knife Training, the "Nice Thread".

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With the horrific demise of the first thread on this subject, I am opeing another that will hopefully turn out better. With all due respect to the years of training and devotion people put into their crafts, everyone knows practice is the way to become proficient. However training and information comes in many forms in todays world. DVD's, magazines on a chosen subject, books, e-books, one and multi day seminars. To fit the needs, time constraints as well as financial concerns of the individual.

 

I am lookng for like minded people that are interested in Defensive Knife Training w/ EDC (every day carry) folders and fixed blades. Young or not so young, male or female just regular people with an intrest in this subject. Heres a quick sample of what I am trying to convey found on YouTube

 

We see so many people in our daily routen with the knife or razor knife clip hanging out of a pants pocket (a dead give away that you are armed,) but how many actually know what to do when a situation arises? I am not a teacher or a knowledgeable person in techniques, however since I am very interested in being alive, this is a new avenue for me. Though I hold a CCW permit, it is useless in NY and NJ where I spend most of my time. So with that in mind what can a person do to better their chances in their every day enviroment. This began for me while watching the Outdoor Channel Show "The Best Defence". I started watchin it with my gorlfrined because Michael Seeklander is on it and it seemed appropriate since she travels freequently. I kind of "what do yo do show", if this happens. Mainly it coners situational awareness, to stay safe and out of harms way IF you can see it coming. In most instances, someone else starts trouble, and we become unwillingly involved, can you dafely leave the situation or do you have to make the choice to fight or resist. Ther are 2 other hosts also, The show also has one of the many Knife Trainers you read about, Michael Janich, I thought his techniques were simple and effective, do the search started locally (Near Jackson NJ) for someone like him.

 

With my time constraints, joinig a Gym or Dojo is not going to happen for me, nor is devoting hours to the art. So far the response I have recieved from the very few "Instructors , teachers or Sifu's is "join our Gym or Do JO, its only X # of dollars, a small invesment in your safety. That's great but exactly the opposite of what I am looking for. If you are in the same boat, or interested feel fee to post or PM me if your moving from the other failed thread. If you are not interested, thats fine too, however I will ask nicely once, PLEASE do not post negative ot threatening replies here. Sometimes its better to say nothing, or start your own thread and vent there. Thanks for reading this.

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Since your previous tread was a text book example of how NOT to win friends and influence people....you started another one with basically the same tone? You're a persistent little bugger,aren't you?

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LOL, you two are too funny. I said I was starting another and I did. The nasty unproductive one is closing at 5 P.M. today unless the Admins choose to close it sooner. I posted this because it intrests me. A whole brand new post to start over fresh and clean with no ill feelings.

 

What every your reasons are for your negative / attack comments directed at me, are known only to you. If your not interested, why bother posting here?

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I am not a teacher or a knowledgeable person in techniques,

 

with all due respect... knife fighting is an extremely violent act that some are not even mentally capable of carrying out..... the first day of my combatives (knife stick and empty hand) class.. my instructor explained the true violence of hand to hand combat... in every gory detail.. explained how you would get cut.. and you win by being able to live the next day.. we had insanely demanding drills.. in low light... improvised environmental weapons.. mock injury.. simulated disorientation... tight spaces... etc.. my instructor is credited with being a part of the development of the marine corp martial arts training program... he is also currently employed training hand to hand combat for the federal government.. so he is qualified... I can tell you with ALL that taken into account.. I only feel marginally prepared for defending myself with a knife...

 

you need someone skilled to show you.. to explain to you.. more than you could ever take away from text or video...

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with all due respect... knife fighting is an extremely violent act that some are not even mentally capable of carrying out..... the first day of my combatives (knife stick and empty hand) class.. my instructor explained the true violence of hand to hand combat... in every gory detail.. explained how you would get cut.. and you win by being able to live the next day.. we had insanely demanding drills.. in low light... improvised environmental weapons.. mock injury.. simulated disorientation... tight spaces... etc.. my instructor is credited with being a part of the development of the marine corp martial arts training program... he is also currently employed training hand to hand combat for the federal government.. so he is qualified... I can tell you with ALL that taken into account.. I only feel marginally prepared for defending myself with a knife...

 

you need someone skilled to show you.. to explain to you.. more than you could ever take away from text or video...

Which essentially was the consensus of the first tread......yet here we are on the second,perhaps they will be a third or fourth until the OP find some schmuck to finally validate him.........

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Which essentially was the consensus of the first tread......yet here we are on the second,perhaps they will be a third or fourth until the OP find some schmuck to finally validate him.........

 

the single most terrifying part about knife training is that almost 100% of it is complete BS... you know why... when you need to use a knife to defend yourself you are not going to be doing drills with another student going through timed choreographed motions.. you will instead trying to slice open some lunatic while he is wildly flailing his arms (and possibly a weapon) at your face... a large portion of the training we did involved so much more than even just using a knife... assessing a threat before it even required a response.. guns are not too bad in that there is safety in distance.. the second you physically establish contact.. the potential to spin wildly out of control is HUGE..

 

we would break off into surprise grappling sessions.. and during those the idea was for the good guy to establish control... or break contact get to your feet and kick the hell out of the "attacker".. easy enough until the instructor throws a training knife, gun, etc.. into the mix.. you then had to notice a weapon had "come loose".. secure the weapon.. use it.. whatever.. just not have it used on you...

 

there were so many things that we would do that you could not even imagine..

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I try to stay out of the squabbles here, but I am going to offer my two cents. If the OP in this thread, and the last wanted recommendations on DVDs, then so be it. If he wanted training in underwater basketweaving and although the safest and most effective way of instruction is face to face, he insisted on only watching DVDs or a hybrid modality then so be it. It's his money. I respect all of your opinions and have learned a lot from many of you, and as an educator agree with your statements. I wanted to learn long distance shooting but this is NJ and I can't find anywhere to push a rifle out to 1000 yards, so I watched a Magpul DVD and went Wow, that's pretty interesting. Does that make me a distance shooter? No, but it gives me an idea of what I"m getting myself into. Perhaps the OP wants to watch DVDs to get a better understanding of what he is getting himself into? There's no substitute for experience, but in lieu of that, as it's said in Latin Cognitio Ductus (spelling might be off) but Knowledge is Power.

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Getting your feet wet to learn underwater basket weaving via dvd lessons and sporadic, informal training may be fine. The problem arises when taking the same approach to try and learn fighting concepts. It would be dangerous and counterintuitive if a person would put his life on the line while fueled by a false sense of confidence gained from playing patty cakes with some people he met on an online forum.

 

The constructive opinions on this forum were on the mark even though the OP did not request them.

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The OP will undoubtedly have his shorts in a twist when he finally realizes that this tread isn't going any better than the last. The question was asked and as is the custom a concise but perhaps disappointing answer was offered. The issue that I and apparently some others have is the arrogant,disrespectful and condescending replies the OP offered,he alone escalated it to a fray while browbeating and insulting those who were willing to answer his question and offer sound advice....and to add insult to injury....all this coming from a member with the sum total of 16 posts.

Hardly the way to become a valued and trusted member of this or any forum, wouldn't you say?. Fortunately we are allowed some latitude my the Mods to convince the uninitiated that NJFG is a friendly,informative and supportive place but with long memories.

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Actully all I have learned, is that many of you seem to have a need to group together to discourage my inquiry. So be it you have gotten your way, you win.

 

I took the other nasty post down as I said I would, and started a second as I said I would. I put a second post up, yes, and it was malice free. Much like our Govt, you seek to silence me since I do not agree with your answer to how I must run my life and my inquiry and training choices. This was witnessed yesterday in Trenton. A group of elected peple that are , willing to pass laws that will force you to do what they want, their way, only their way or be punished. Solving exactly what?

The fact that a gang of people can bully and attempt to intimidate a single seemingly weaker opponent? Thats not new, its not news, and its most likely why many of you decided to join martial arts, the Military or shooting clubs or groups. So I Put it out to you. How can you think its a mark against me? This second post had , till the first reply, no malice or ill will twards anyone. If you still harbor resentment from the other post, thats on you if you cant let go. I reposted this because I am willing to face your anger and am not afraid to speak freely here. Like I said before, if you got your feeling hurt, sorry.

It was not myself, that took the time to search this post out and bring hate here. So enjoy yourselves and your victory. 1 can stand against many....right?

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im not looking to silence you... or discourage you.. in fact the opposite.. I STRONGLY recommend you learn how to fight.. to defend.. ideally with a weapon.. one that you can legally carry.. I strongly suggest you seek instruction from an individual that understands the completely uncontrollable encounter that can a physical altercation can be.. I suggest you find an instructor with both real world and ideally military experience.. I suggest this because my experience with this has been very positive.. and eye opening.. I am discouraging you from wasting your time... I am not discouraging you from trying at all..

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Actully all I have learned, is that many of you seem to have a need to group together to discourage my inquiry. So be it you have gotten your way, you win.

 

I took the other nasty post down as I said I would, and started a second as I said I would. I put a second post up, yes, and it was malice free. Much like our Govt, you seek to silence me since I do not agree with your answer to how I must run my life and my inquiry and training choices. This was witnessed yesterday in Trenton. A group of elected peple that are , willing to pass laws that will force you to do what they want, their way, only their way or be punished. Solving exactly what?

The fact that a gang of people can bully and attempt to intimidate a single seemingly weaker opponent? Thats not new, its not news, and its most likely why many of you decided to join martial arts, the Military or shooting clubs or groups. So I Put it out to you. How can you think its a mark against me? This second post had , till the first reply, no malice or ill will twards anyone. If you still harbor resentment from the other post, thats on you if you cant let go. I reposted this because I am willing to face your anger and am not afraid to speak freely here. Like I said before, if you got your feeling hurt, sorry.

It was not myself, that took the time to search this post out and bring hate here. So enjoy yourselves and your victory. 1 can stand against many....right?

By all means, ask your question but don't be an asshole or worst yet, play the martyr when you don't like the answers.......Perhaps if you weren't so damn passive aggressive you wouldn't have to worry about people attempting to knife you.

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Bertus,

 

My hats off to you. How about getting a heavy bag and hit it for awhile. Then, get a same size wooden stick as youe edc knife and practice stabbing the heavy bag. If getting a heavy bag is too costly for you, get two or three tires and link them up. It's good to have a training parter and a teacher to point out the mistakes but it looks like your time is limited. Then mind as well make your body as strong and hard as possible and learn to hit hard, at least. Best defense is offense right?

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Bertus -

 

Take a look at MDTS, they have an excellent Tactical Folding knife class. I had some fixed blade training and I took it on a lark several years ago and it was well worth it. Of course it will no more make you a knife fighting expert than Chris's Tactical Pistol class will make you an expert Pistoleer. However as the bulk of knife attacks start off with you getting stabbed, you don't really need to be. The sad fact is that you are far more likely to be standing at the urinal in a public bathroom and have some crackhead start pistoning you in the back with a knife to murder and rob you of $5 then you will ever be to get into any sort or man on man knife battle royal.

 

Chris's class focus's specifically on folding knife deployment under stress, core defensive drills as well as a host of far more useful skills that can be learned in a relatively short period of time using both 2 and 3 man groups (depending on the specific drill). Like any class you can only get better by practicing these drills but it can give you a fundamental basis for defending yourself with a folding knife.

 

While DVD's and books can be useful from an academic point of view and to expand your training, even this short man on man training under the eye of an experienced instructor will be invaluable to you. Even if you have to drive to upstate NY for the day, (Chris does not usually offer this class in this area) you will get far more out of it than a dozen books or DVD's. Worst case you can setup some private training with him.

 

Good Luck.

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with all due respect... knife fighting is an extremely violent act that some are not even mentally capable of carrying out..... the first day of my combatives (knife stick and empty hand) class.. my instructor explained the true violence of hand to hand combat... in every gory detail.. explained how you would get cut.. and you win by being able to live the next day.. we had insanely demanding drills.. in low light... improvised environmental weapons.. mock injury.. simulated disorientation... tight spaces... etc.. my instructor is credited with being a part of the development of the marine corp martial arts training program... he is also currently employed training hand to hand combat for the federal government.. so he is qualified... I can tell you with ALL that taken into account.. I only feel marginally prepared for defending myself with a knife...

 

you need someone skilled to show you.. to explain to you.. more than you could ever take away from text or video...

 

Been through this training and even after it I never felt prepared for whipping out a Ka-Bar and defending myself with it. As others have said, the only way to really become proficient in something like that is to train with it ALL the time. It's a martial art and not something you can learn home through a book, DVD etc. Remember Daniel-son learning karate out the book? Johnny set him straight fast lol.

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This is the only thing I'll say about knives. I'd rather be shot... But in lieu of Nick's video. This video says it all. I happen to know someone that was on the set. The original shot entailed a fight I believe with his whip. But he had the flu while shooting this scene. There were so many takes he got pissed because he felt sick and said fook it and shot the bad guy instead. Everyone laughed their ballz off on the set and they decided to keep it for the final cut.

 

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I'm a big fan of the site below and this article pretty much summarizes what I've seen, growing up in a place that did not allow guns.

 

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

 

Check out the whole site, I don't agree with everything, but I found myself unable to stop reading until I finished all the articles..

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despite the near impossibility of actually learning how to draw a knife quickly and effectively when presented with an attack, id take caution before stepping into a knife fight or any hand to hand combat. As a martial artist from the time I was 6, ( Tae Kwon Do Akido Judo Systema krav Maga eskima stick fighting kali knife fighting etc.) the true carnage of any combat is not something that can be prepared for, nor learned in any dojo, and especially not videos. Ive been in several knife encounters in my time either at parties, bars, and the streets. They have left me scarred severly and only half of these times did I even have time to pull my own knife. Knife combat is a deadly art, the best thing to do is to keep yourself calm, the only way to keep calm when a madman comes flailing a 4 inch blade at you is to train. I suggest you take up martial arts, and learn to defend against knife attacks with your hands. As for using a knife on someone, I wouldn't suggest it... that being said, a jugular stab is always effective, or the sublavian artery ( underside of the armpit) a slash to the bridge of the nose will slow most people down, but remember, if its REAL combat, your goal is to survive, no matter what.

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