Gov. Christie vs NJ Assy/Senate

[Sigman 41]

I have been posting info all over Twitter regarding the illogical aspects of the proposed new laws, and, have been asking my followers to tweet to Christie (@GovChristie) and ask him to veto these laws. I've also been in contact with my Assemblyman (@LouGreenwald) asking him questions and commenting on his inane tweets regarding these new "common sense" gun laws.

Please feel free to copy my tweets and resend them, or retweet them. My account is @HindaRifka Social media can be a valuable tool, and the more we utilize all tools at our fingertips, the better. Tell your followers to remind Christie that outside of New Jersey, it is considered bad form to enact more gun control. His chances of taking the National stage will diminish if he does not veto these ridiculous new laws.

 

Amy

 

Amy

 

I believe Twitter and Facebook are great tools for us to use. There are many in NJ that have no idea what's going on, including some gun owners. I call them the recreational gun owners that go to the range a couple of times a year or just have a gun at home for self-defense. I personally know some, and their jaw drops when they hear the legislation that's being forced through.

 

We're well-informed from being here or belonging to groups like NJ2AS. There are many who have never heard of these groups. Most of the people I speak to at ranges are not members of New Jersey Gun Forums, but I try to spread the word. We need to get as many as we can involved, not just for gun rights, but to rid NJ of its tyrannical government.

[plode 0]

What if the panel conclusions conflict with the proposed laws. Somebody will look stupid, no?

 

What if the panel conclusions conflict with the current laws?

[Bowling Ball 22]

What if the panel conclusions conflict with the current laws?

 

Lol that would never happen. Not in a million years.

 

on a different note... Who's to say Christie will win in 2016, we don't know who will sweep the primaries.

 

Signing these into law will NOT affect him running for national office. Think about Romney and last election, Romney actually signed an AWB and it didn't hurt him nationally.

[dajonga 396]

My opinion........

 

I see the Gov as our only hope here. The Assembly will pass all the new laws, and the Senate most likely will follow suit. Their minds are already made up and they show no interest in compromise with us. Most of them have ignored our pleas, citing polls that most in NJ support ALL of the new proposed laws.

 

Govs veto is what we should be aiming for.

 

I think if we all concentrate our efforts on the Governor's office, and only the Governor's office, we may stand a chance in defeating these BS laws. Ignore the people who will not listen to us.

 

He is facing an election this year.

Remind him of Florio's defeat after NJ's AWB went into law.

Remind him of the Republican sweep in DC after the national AWB went into law.

 

On second thought, Sweeney is, for better or worse, the second most powerful man in the state & shows a willingness to confront the Gov. So, concentrate on Gov and Sweeney?

 

Thoughts?

[Bob2222 316]

I'm less optimistic about him vetoing now ....

 

 

Or, maybe more.....

 

http://www.bloomberg...n-campaign.html

 

Christie Winning N.J. Urban Core Democrats in Campaign

 

By Terrence Dopp - Feb 15, 2013 12:01 AM ET

 

Governor Chris Christie’s record popularity since Hurricane Sandy ravaged New Jersey is prodding some Democrats in the state’s urban core to cross over and back the Republican for a second term they see as inevitable.

 

In heavily Democratic Hudson County, the most densely populated part of New Jersey, state Senator and Union City Mayor Brian Stack called him “Numero Uno.” In Harrison, where voters backed Democrat Jon Corzine over Christie by a 3-1 margin in the 2009 race, Mayor Raymond McDonough and the entire town council endorsed the 50-year-old governor last month.

 

As Christie enjoys the highest approval marks of any U.S. governor and almost half of Democratic voters say he deserves a second term, he faces only one challenger, state Senator Barbara Buono. She trails him by more than 40 percentage points. With Newark Mayor Cory Booker, former acting Governor Richard Codey and Senate President Stephen Sweeney all out of the race, some Democrats say backing the incumbent is their best move.

 

“It’s fairly mercenary,” said Patrick Murray, director of the Monmouth University Polling Institute in West Long Branch. “If you’re pretty sure that this guy is going to have his hand on the spigot for the next four years, why not get behind him now? That’s what a lot of Democratic officeholders are thinking at this point.”

 

The early support in Hudson County shows Christie has been able to gain traction in areas that have traditionally voted for Democrats. It may offer an initial test of whether the governor can build upon that support and get party leaders in other parts of the state to side with him.

 

Party Bosses

 

***

The governor’s race will lead a ticket in which all 120 seats of the Legislature are up for grabs. Democratic control of the Senate and Assembly has stymied Christie’s plans to cut income taxes and end public-employee payouts for unused sick time when they retire, and forced him to compromise on a levy cap and benefits overhaul.

 

Since taking office in January 2010, Christie has often bashed Democrats for failing to approve his proposals. At other times, he has touted his ability to compromise with them.

 

Hudson Democrats

 

Christie, the first Republican elected New Jersey governor since 1997, won the 2009 race with 48 percent of the total vote to Corzine’s 45 percent, as voters rejected the one-term Democrat’s handling of the recession.

 

In Hudson County, voters backed Corzine that year. They haven’t supported a Republican for governor since 1985, when the popular Tom Kean won a 40 percentage point landslide in his re- election effort.

 

In 1997, when Republican Christine Todd Whitman was re- elected, she beat her Democratic challenger James McGreevey 47 percent to 46 percent, even after McGreevey won in all the counties that usually vote for Democrats, including Hudson and Essex.

 

Democrats have an advantage of 703,000 registered voters over Republicans in New Jersey. Independents make up almost half the electorate, outnumbering both major parties. The state’s voters backed Democrats in the last six presidential contests.

 

Sandy Bounce

 

In a Feb. 12 Rutgers-Eagleton poll, Christie was beating Buono 63 percent to 21 percent. Even among Democrats, he led 42 percent to 38 percent. The governor is enjoying a record 74 percent approval rating for his response to Sandy, up from 56 percent before the Oct. 29 storm, according to a Quinnipiac University poll on Jan. 23.

 

The governor has managed to insert a wedge into the Democratic Party and exploit rifts among leaders that first surfaced in his race against Corzine, said Murray, the Monmouth pollster. Democratic leaders “sat on their hands” in that contest and withheld support for Corzine over lingering disputes and a perception that he overlooked lawmakers, Murray said.

 

McDonough, a Democrat who has been mayor of the Hudson County town of Harrison for 19 years, said he supported Christie’s property-tax cap and pension and benefits changes, and credits him for new jobs and development in the town.

 

“His approval is 74 percent, so what more could I say?” McDonough said during his Jan. 31 endorsement announcement with Christie at Tops Diner in East Newark.

 

*****

Party Labels

 

Stack, the Union City mayor, has stopped short of formally endorsing Christie. Still, during a Feb. 7 speech at a ribbon- cutting for a local elementary school built with state money, he called Christie “the best governor in the history of New Jersey.” He and other Democrats refer to party members who support the governor’s moves as “Christiecrats.”

 

“He’ll fight with Republicans; he’ll fight with Democrats -- whatever is best for New Jersey,” said Stack, 46. He joined Democrats voting for Christie’s pension moves over the opposition of public-employee unions. “I don’t put too much stock into party labels.”

 

*****

 

 

Just as an aside, Steve Sweeney has put the minimum wage increase on the ballot as a constitutional amendment for November. When Christie vetoed it he said he wasn't opposed to an increase per se, but questioned the timing given the state's unemployment problem. I don't think he'll oppose the amendment. This only affects about 1-2% of NJ workers directly, but in November it may bring out a slightly different demographic for a NJ off year election.

 

I think Christie has enough accumulated karma to veto much/most of this stuff (as does Paul Mulshine http://blog.nj.com/n...kfire_on_t.html) but the question is if he'll take the risk -- the potential reward being the Naval Observatory in 2016 or White House in 2024.

[Cold Steel 0]

Lol that would never happen. Not in a million years.

 

on a different note... Who's to say Christie will win in 2016, we don't know who will sweep the primaries.

 

Signing these into law will NOT affect him running for national office. Think about Romney and last election, Romney actually signed an AWB and it didn't hurt him nationally.

 

It hurt Romney. He didn't win. He got less of a Conservative turnout than the flip flopper John McCain! What Christie does on this gun legislation will follow him on to the national stage if that's where he goes. Those RED gun loving states will not want anything to do with him if they see he screwed the gun owners in his own state.

As stated before on this forum, we may have an ally of sorts in Sweeney. He has hopes for higher office and if he pushes this anti-gun garbage in the Senate his own (gun owning) constituents will turn on him and he may not even get re-elected.

[Caine 147]

He cant even think of running for President if he signs any of these.

I see comments like this all the time on here, and I really don't understand them. During Romney's term as Gov in MA, they passed an AWB and he still became the republican candidate for President. Sure, he didn't win in the end, but he certainly "thought of running"... so, why would it be any different if Christie doesn't veto this package?

[NJJim 37]

The reason for the commission is so the Governor does not have to state his position. He will most likely just go with the recommendations, giving himself cover. He probably will not take a stand, either way.

[Bowling Ball 22]

What if Christie wins the presidential primaries, it will play out the same was as it did with Romney - Obama.

 

Christie will join the NRA as a lifetime member and take a pic shooting a .22 rifle, just like Romney did. Even though they are both FOR AWB's.

 

What I'm saying is that if Romney won the primaries given his background, you think Christie's people won't look into that.

 

Isn't Buono running against Christie this November?

 

I mean c'mon now, even if Christie signed these into law, what are we all going to vote for Buono come November???

[voyager9 3,434]

Lol that would never happen. Not in a million years. on a different note... Who's to say Christie will win in 2016, we don't know who will sweep the primaries. Signing these into law will NOT affect him running for national office. Think about Romney and last election, Romney actually signed an AWB and it didn't hurt him nationally.

 

While I think it could go either way with respect to Christie.. there is a difference between his situation and Romney's. Gov Romney signed the MA AWB in 2004.. 8 years ago and people have short memories. Christie's vote would be this year.. and people are less likely to overlook it.

[YankeeFan 49]

I'm pretty confident that CC is going to veto these bills altogether and ask for something more sensible.

 

Which plays right into their "Overton Window" strategy....try to go for something completely outrageous so they can end up approving what they really wanted from the start....

[Vlad G 345]

Which plays right into their "Overton Window" strategy....try to go for something completely outrageous so they can end up approving what they really wanted from the start....

 

Well to be fair, what they want is no guns what so ever, everyone ridding the bus to crummy jobs while wearing cheap chinese uniforms and paying their taxes, and a one party government. It may be more accurate to say they might get what they think they can get away with.

[BigHayden 77]

I see comments like this all the time on here, and I really don't understand them. During Romney's term as Gov in MA, they passed an AWB and he still became the republican candidate for President. Sure, he didn't win in the end, but he certainly "thought of running"... so, why would it be any different if Christie doesn't veto this package?

 

Not this sh*t again...

 

MA had an AWB long before Romney became governor, the language of which was dependent on the Federal definition of "assault weapon". When the Federal ban was set to expire, the MA legislature worked to clarify their AWB language. At that point GOAL stepped in and worked with the legislature to remove many firearms that would have been included in the MA AWB after the expiration of the Federal ban. This was the bill that Romney signed, and being the politician that he is, at the signing ceremony, that idiot made a statement that his advisers suggested about the positive nature of the AWB. It was that signing statement that people keep referring to.

 

Again, Romney was not a friend to gun owners any more than Christie is, but he did not sign an AWB in MA. They already had one. The bill he signed clarified the law, but it wasn't the beginning of it.

[mikelets456 78]

While I think it could go either way with respect to Christie.. there is a difference between his situation and Romney's. Gov Romney signed the MA AWB in 2004.. 8 years ago and people have short memories. Christie's vote would be this year.. and people are less likely to overlook it.

 

Could Christie simply make minor changes then send it back to the assembly and have this "back and forth" movement? This certainly could push on to a point where he really won't have to make a decision until after the election?

Quite honestly, I believe Christie is a total RINO, but believe 95% of this stuff he'll remove then pass internet purchases, mental health checks and maybe a 10 mag limit.

 

However, I'm astonished that we're fighting for a GUARANTEED Right that these bozos upheld an oath to protect! If a gun was used for immoral sex, they would make sure it stayed as a right.

[Bob2222 316]

Romney signed the Mass AWB and was the father of Obamacare.

 

He lost, in spite of what Gallup's polling showed up to the last minute. Gallup has been polling since the 1930s, and almost never blows it this badly. If I work with the assumption that that there wasn't massive vote fraud, my only remaining explanation is that a couple of million potential conservative voters couldn't see much if any difference between Romney and Obama and just stayed home. (Libertarian Gary Johnson won 1,275,821 votes -- 752,388 votes more than the Libertarians won in 2008.) The Republicans may be stupid, but they aren't stupid enough to repeat exactly the same mistake in 2016.

 

Christie is running for the #2 spot on the ticket in 2016 and the #1 spot in 2024. I've read that he turned down the VP spot in 2012 because he wasn't convinced that Romney could win. Which he was completely correct about. He still has to accumulate some conservative bona fides before he'll win the #1 spot. He'll 54 in 2016 and be 62 in 2024. He has the time.

 

If Christie signs some of the more Draconian measures, the Republican conservative voters will go nuts if he's on the ticket in 2016, and we'll see 2012 Version 2.0. He'll win in NJ in November if he signs all of them. But IMO that will make it very difficult for him to ever seek national office.

[Vlad G 345]

He'll win in NJ in November if he signs all of them. But IMO that will make it very difficult for him to ever seek national office.

 

He will win in November no matter how he stands on this, short of the Star Ledger publishing explicit photos of him having an affair with duck. With 74% support right now, he could piss off every gun owner and win, or he could piss off every anti-gunner and win.

 

His stance will only affect his dreams of national office.

[Caine 147]

Again, Romney was not a friend to gun owners any more than Christie is, but he did not sign an AWB in MA. They already had one. The bill he signed clarified the law, but it wasn't the beginning of it.

You can word it anyway you want... the fact remains that while he was in office he DID sign legislation that may have clarified the law in one part, but in the another part made their AWB permanent. So yes, you are technically correct - they already had an AWB, but he helped make it worse. And let's not forget some of his comments at the time that included such winners as "instruments of destruction" with regards to "assault weapons".

 

Romney was anti-gun no matter how you try to spin it... and yet he still got the republican nomination... Did he lose the election because he was anti-gun? Maybe. Will it cost Christie a republican nomination and/or a presidential election if he signs any of these laws? Let's hope he thinks so.

[Bob2222 316]

He will win in November no matter how he stands on this, short of the Star Ledger publishing explicit photos of him having an affair with duck. With 74% support right now, he could piss off every gun owner and win, or he could piss off every anti-gunner and win.

 

His stance will only affect his dreams of national office.

 

Maybe I should have said, "He'll win by a landslide if the signs them all". I agree he's likely to win in November no matter what he does. (I'll guess a 99.7% probability if he signs them -- but "only" a 90% probability if he doesn't. That's b/c of the minimum wage amendment that Sweeney managed to put on the ballot for November, which will bring out more indigo-blue voters.)

 

Voters aren't awfully happy with NJ taxes and the economy, and the good karma from Superstorm Sandy will fade, so he may not be as much of a shoo-in as the polls suggest right now. Christie's coat tails for the legislature races should be shorter too, which is probably one of the reasons minimum wage is on the ballot. But I'll still put my $0.05 bet on Christie.

 

From a practical standpoint, there isn't much difference between 10 rounds and 15 rounds. From the perspective of Christie's political career, the difference is huge. Those 5 rounds are enough to keep him off a national ticket.

[mipafox 438]

My sincere hope as that we cause such a ruckus they never get approved. But failing that I think your correct.

He cant even think of running for President if he signs any of these.

 

Romney got the Republican nomination for President. I think Christie can do whatever the F he wants.

[O-gre 7]

Let me repeat! He WILL sign every anti-gun bill that hits his desk. PERIOD!

[KWGOOD1980 0]

Let me repeat! He WILL sign every anti-gun bill that hits his desk. PERIOD!

 

Ok that's great and all, we heard you the first time.

 

Why are you soooooo convinced?

[O-gre 7]

 

 

Ok that's great and all, we heard you the first time.

 

Why are you soooooo convinced?

simple! He is anti gun and a RINO.. His true political ambition ENDS in NJ and he knows it. It is also likely that he goes independent or even Dem. Bombastic gets old fast.

[Anselmo 87]

Christie might sign a few gun control bills, hopefully the most benign of them, to show he's willing to work with the opposition and be a person that effects meaningful legislation even though it will be basically meaningless. This way both sides will feel like they won.

 

He's certainly not going to sign every bill. Even if he believed in them a little, he wouldn't sign them and appear to be a pushover.

[Wile E Coyote 0]

My 2¢.

 

Christie might be a lot of things, but one thing he isn't is stupid. I think he'll take his time with these bills once they inevitably make it through the Assembly and Senate. If he has 45 days, he'll take the full length. I also suspect he'll wait to see how the debate shapes up in D.C. For example, if it looks like a 10 round mag limit will pass on a Federal level he'll conditionally veto the state bill. By sending it back to the Legislature, the hope would be Menendez & crew will get something to Obama's desk to sign before Christie has to put his John Hancock on something in NJ.

 

Some of these things are going to pass and I think they are going to hinge on what the NJ SAFE Task Force (or whatever it was called) recommends.

[KWGOOD1980 0]

simple! He is anti gun and a RINO.. His true political ambition ENDS in NJ and he knows it. It is also likely that he goes independent or even Dem. Bombastic gets old fast.

 

Yeah I agree. A tax and spend liberal at best and even that is being generous.

 

However I don't think he signs every bill, it would essentially ruin any chances of the White House as he will command little to no conservative/right/repub whatever vote.

[BigHayden 77]

You can word it anyway you want... the fact remains that while he was in office he DID sign legislation that may have clarified the law in one part, but in the another part made their AWB permanent. So yes, you are technically correct - they already had an AWB, but he helped make it worse. And let's not forget some of his comments at the time that included such winners as "instruments of destruction" with regards to "assault weapons".

 

Romney was anti-gun no matter how you try to spin it... and yet he still got the republican nomination... Did he lose the election because he was anti-gun? Maybe. Will it cost Christie a republican nomination and/or a presidential election if he signs any of these laws? Let's hope he thinks so.

 

This is flat out wrong. Here is the 1998 law that was signed by then Governor Cellucci and I defy you to find where there is a sunset date. The 1998 ban was already permanent. The MA AWB was going to get worse because it only had exceptions that existed in the federal law. When the federal law sunset, thousands of legal gun owners in MA were going to become felons. The bill that Romneycare signed transfered the language from from the federal law and put it into the MA law, thereby saving gun owners from becoming felons. He did not make the AWB worse. He kept it from getting worse.

 

From the MA gun owners group, GOAL,

 

Permanently attached the federal language concerning assault weapon exemptions in 18 USC 922 Appendix A to the Massachusetts assault weapons laws. This is the part that the media misrepresented.

 

In 1998 the Massachusetts legislature passed its own assault weapons ban (

MGL Chapter 140, Section 131M). This ban did not rely on the federal language and contained no sunset clause. Knowing that we did not have the votes in 2004 to get rid of the state law, we did not want to loose all of the federal exemptions that were not in the state law so this new bill was amended to include them.

 

Please do not misconstrue correcting a lie as support for that person. I did not like Romney as a candidate, but if we keep repeating the lies that the media reports, we are no better than the anti-rights crowd. We are supposed to be committed to the truth.

[O-gre 7]

Honestly I do not think it will hurt him nationally. I also don't think he has a shot either. Bombastic gets old. He doesn't care about conservatives as its not his base. I am only saying this because there are those on this board who have their hopes up that he is our defender when there is clearly NO proof of it! In fact there is evidence to the contrary.

[Pythagoras 2]

 

 

This is flat out wrong. Here is the 1998 law that was signed by then Governor Cellucci and I defy you to find where there is a sunset date. The 1998 ban was already permanent. The MA AWB was going to get worse because it only had exceptions that existed in the federal law. When the federal law sunset, thousands of legal gun owners in MA were going to become felons. The bill that Romneycare signed transfered the language from from the federal law and put it into the MA law, thereby saving gun owners from becoming felons. He did not make the AWB worse. He kept it from getting worse.

 

From the MA gun owners group, GOAL,

 

 

Please do not misconstrue correcting a lie as support for that person. I did not like Romney as a candidate, but if we keep repeating the lies that the media reports, we are no better than the anti-rights crowd. We are supposed to be committed to the truth.

 

This.

[Amy 0]

This from an email I just received from Christie:

 

Dear Friend:

 

Thank you for writing to express your opposition to new laws regarding gun control.

I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue.

 

Acting on my commitment to take a full and comprehensive look at the intersection of gun control, addiction, mental health and school safety in New Jersey, I have created the NJ SAFE Task Force. The Task Force will be chaired by two former attorneys general of New Jersey and members who have expertise in the fields of mental health diagnosis and treatment, addiction services and treatment, law enforcement and school safety.

 

Violence in our society has never been solely about firearms, and we would miss an opportunity to better prevent the roots of violence if we didn't look at the complete picture. If we are truly going to take an honest and candid assessment of violence and public safety, we have to look more deeply at the underlying causes of many acts of violence. That means removing the stigma and evaluating issues of mental health, addiction, prevention and treatment services alongside the effectiveness of our firearms laws, enforcement mechanisms and our school safety measures. This task force will convene immediately and report back with its findings.

 

My commitment has always been to evaluate public safety, criminal policy and behavioral science with an approach that recognizes that these issues cannot be separated from one another. The SAFE Task Force will further my commitment in that regard as we look at how we can better guarantee violence control.

 

I hope you find this information helpful. Thank you again for writing.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Chris Christie

Governor

 

 

 

I've been all over Twitter the past few days asking people from all over the country to send faxes to Christie telling him that if he doesn't VETO these 24 bills, they will VETO him in 2016. The people I have heard from have said they experienced busy signals all day yesterday and the day before, which is a good sign. Further, most of these people are NOT from NJ, so he can see how this will effect his chances at a National run for office in 2016. For those of you not on Twitter and/or Facebook, JOIN NOW. Social Media is a powerful tool, just ask the obama campaign.

[Amy 0]

Amy

 

I believe Twitter and Facebook are great tools for us to use. There are many in NJ that have no idea what's going on, including some gun owners. I call them the recreational gun owners that go to the range a couple of times a year or just have a gun at home for self-defense. I personally know some, and their jaw drops when they hear the legislation that's being forced through.

 

We're well-informed from being here or belonging to groups like NJ2AS. There are many who have never heard of these groups. Most of the people I speak to at ranges are not members of New Jersey Gun Forums, but I try to spread the word. We need to get as many as we can involved, not just for gun rights, but to rid NJ of its tyrannical government.

 

Rick,

 

I'm glad there's another like-minded soul on here that realizes the value of Social Media. I know I'm older than dirt, but, these here new fangled internet sites could help us get the word out. Tons of people just lurking on Twitter & Facebook that we need to bring in to this fold. Educate them, make them aware of the gun grab that is taking place. Even people that don't shoot know that gun rights are just the first step to stripping other rights away. Think about it...we have at least one million gun owners in New Jersey. What is the best way to reach most of them?

 

A