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NJ requirement for my supervisor's permission for gun permit

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I haven't been able to verify this portion of the NJ laws for applying for a permit to purchase a gun and this is my first time throught this process. It is SO onerous that I hope it will be my last time! Forever!! Anyway, I have complete all of my paperwork, fingerprinting and fees and am now waiting for the last bit of paperwork which involves having my direct supervisor complete a form that goes with my application. I was told that this is NJ law but haven't been able to find anything that describes it. The application already has 2 references, which I'm assuming they will contact. They didn't seem to think it was important that my boss is actually at our headquarters in France and he's only been with the company for 3 months and doesn't know me at all. What kind of a reference is that? He also just responded to the e-mail they sent to accompany the form and said that, as a Dutchman and European, and "cannot sponsor, like all European governments do, the proliferation of shot guns for personal protection." He obviously doesn't know the least thing about guns, to call a hand gun a shot gun, but it's beginning to look like my application may be blocked by this last step that I cannot even find in the actual laws! Does anyone have any insight into this that might be helpful? How can they think that someone who doesn't even know me can vouch for me in any way and let this tie up the legal process for applying for the permit to purchase a handgun? I appreciate your help!

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I'm in Mt. Holly. They said this was NJ law.

 

I just started this job 6 months ago and feel lucky to have it in the current climate so getting another job is not really an option. I am, however, starting to get nervous that this step may have jeopardized my brand-new relationship with my boss.

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Here is the list of questions on the form they asked him to complete. As you can see, it goes WAY beyond what most supervisors know about their employees and certainly beyond what could ever be expected from a 3-month relationship (and we only met once, a couple of weeks ago, when I was at our headquarters for our global sales meeting)!

1. Does your company or organization employ the applicant?

2. How long has the applicant been employed by you?

3. Have you even known the applicant to be involved with the illegal use of Drugs?

4. Does he/she have any physical defects?

5. Does he/she have any mental disorders or has he/she ever been treated by a psychiatrist?

6. Does the applicant use alcoholic beverages excessively?

7. Has the applicant ever been arrested, to your knowledge?

8. Is there anything in the past that might reflect on his/her character?

____________________________________________________________

 

9. Does the applicant belong to or has he/she ever belonged to any organization that advocates or approves of the use of force and violence to overthrow the government of the Unites States or this State?

10. Do you recommend a permit for this applicant?

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I can understand if you have to stay in your job because you need to. It seems that the questions were beyond a simple employment verification. Since your boss has already identified as a gun hating Euro, I don't think that the PD will get a favorable response, if any. You can try the NJ2AS, I am not sure if this extra form is legal. Good Luck, though, you should also possibly consider moving to PA, where these forms are not applicable.

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I dropped off my paper work & will be doing my finger prints shortly (already have my appointment) the officer mad a comment that response from the employer is what is taking the longest. I didn't argue the issue simply smiled and went on my way. The odd part is I am military so gave my direct supervisor point of contact information. Though just like you I can not find "law" that requires for my bosses yes or no but only for to be for "employment verification". I'll see how this goes as time moves on.

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'H.M. Murdock' - posted: " the town mentioned firearms on the letter then you may have grounds for a lawsuit."

 

Does it MENTION firearms? It mentions SEVERAL times! There is absolutely zero doubt that this is for firearms! The letter clearly states that "The above named person has made application to this office for a permit to purchase a firearm(s). The firearm may be a hand gun, shot gun or rifle. He/she has used your name as a reference (note: not voluntarily!!). It is mandatory that these offices conduct a background check of all applicants for firemarms. Your answers to the questions below may well determine the applicant's suitability to have a firearm; and the answers, likewise, may well determine the issuance of a permit to purchase it." It also goes on to say that if I appeal a denial of the application and it goes to court they cannot guarantee that the information (about my boss and his responses to the questions) would be kept confidential.

 

I'm hoping to avoid lawsuits. As I explained to another friend, I'm trying to stay as far below the radar as possible and a lawsuit would bring unwanted notice and may well lead to uninvited attention or even harrassment.

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'H.M. Murdock' - posted: " the town mentioned firearms on the letter then you may have grounds for a lawsuit."

 

Does it MENTION firearms? It mentions SEVERAL times! There is absolutely zero doubt that this is for firearms! The letter clearly states that "The above named person has made application to this office for a permit to purchase a firearm(s). The firearm may be a hand gun, shot gun or rifle. He/she has used your name as a reference (note: not voluntarily!!). It is mandatory that these offices conduct a background check of all applicants for firemarms. Your answers to the questions below may well determine the applicant's suitability to have a firearm; and the answers, likewise, may well determine the issuance of a permit to purchase it." It also goes on to say that if I appeal a denial of the application and it goes to court they cannot guarantee that the information (about my boss and his responses to the questions) would be kept confidential.

 

I'm hoping to avoid lawsuits. As I explained to another friend, I'm trying to stay as far below the radar as possible and a lawsuit would bring unwanted notice and may well lead to uninvited attention or even harrassment.

 

Understood

 

If you contact the NJ2AS they may be able to work on your behalf without a lawsuit. They can contact your C.O.P. directly or even indirectly via the NJSP. I believe they have done this in the past with non compliant towns. The letter your employer received is one of the more egregious violations of the law and the NJSP guidelines in particular and I suspect it will be remedied without any ill will or retribution for that reason (PD covering their own ass). Take action, man!

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I'm hoping to avoid lawsuits. As I explained to another friend, I'm trying to stay as far below the radar as possible and a lawsuit would bring unwanted notice and may well lead to uninvited attention or even harrassment.

Your town is violating the law and created an unnecessary burden and obstacle in your pursuit of purchasing a firearm.

 

I don't know your motivation to obtain a firearm, whether it be for target practice, home defense, competition, or just because you've got a 2nd amendment right to do so. It makes no difference to me, and it makes no difference period.

 

They have created an obstacle, and they violating the law in doing so. I won't speak for you, but if it were me, I'd be pissed. You are doing everything legally, following the rules, not looking to "upset the apple cart," and they are pissing all over you. I don't mean to be dramatic, but that's what's happened.

 

I'd certainly contact NJ2AS as they ahve been sucessful in dealing wtih this stuff, but you also might want to contact the police chief on your own, or the mayor, and have them explain to you why they are violating the law. Or, you can sit back and take it. I guess it depends on how bad you want your firearm and how much you are willing to swallow.

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This not only is NOT the law, it is patently illegal per: 2C:58-3,f which states, in part:

 

There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter.

 

I assure that nowhere in that chapter does it say anything about using your employer as a reference - and raz-o is correct, this may actually violate HIPAA privacy rules - although I doubt any employer would divulge any of the requested information because of the liability issue.

 

Employer information is requested on the application only for employment verification as part of the background check with which they are tasked.

 

It is up to you how far you want to push this. If they are waiting for you to bring them the form your supervisor is to fill out, simply bring them a confirmation of employment on company letterhead signed by the head of HR. If the PD balks at that, have the above statute printed out and give it to them. Definitely make a copy of the form and forward it to the NJ2AS - doubtful that you will receive any individual help, but they are having this battle on a daily basis with municipalities around the state, and will eventually get to yours. The only thing that you are required to submit by law, is the completed application (STS-033), the mental health check authorization, signed in the presence of the investigating officer or their designee and fingerprinting. For subsequent applications the PD may substitute an SP-212A (non-criminal background check form) for fingerprints, or waive either of them.

 

Good luck. You're not alone.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

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Do they really contact one's supervisor and have them fill out a form? I have never had my supervisor called in any way shape or form before. I hope this isn't a new policy gaining momentum statewide.

 

Good question.

 

I did mine last year. I told HR (not my supervisor) that I needed a contact for the state police to conduct a background investigation on me. I also said that it was for firearms licensing, because frankly given who I work for that reason should not be a problem. I have no idea whether the HR person was contacted or not. They didn't tell me.

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Update: I spoke with the NJSP and he gave sound advice, assuring me that my boss refusing to fill out this form would not (ultimately, at least) block me from being able to get my permits. He asked me to call my local COP in Mt. Holly directly, though, and tell him the situation and that I spoke with the NJSP Firearms Investigation Unit. I should refer my COP to them if he wants any additional information. I was assured that they can't put any restrictions on my application. I have a call in for the COP but he wasn't in at the time so they took my name and #. Stay tuned!

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We need a NJ LLC where we donate $20 a year and get payed $1 a year and claim that is our employment.

 

Humm... this is a possibility. Although it will cost more than $20 for the W2 or 1099's to be printed every year. A better way may be to turn you into a 1099 contractor. You pay for the privilege of a website login - no different than an exotic dancer "paying" for her stage time. Now you are officially employed. And can earn a salary of $1.00 per year. This is theoretically possible.

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Sorry if I missed it, but have you actually spoken to the detective handling your application about it? Contrary to popular belief, they're not all on a mission to deny you your rights. Some are decent, normal guys who are not necessarily any happier about the process than you.

 

I had a similar issue my first time around, except my employer refused to even confirm my employment. I explained it to the dectective and he made a note in the file and finished processing the application. Had my paperwork less than a week later. Subsequent applications I just remind him about my employer and we have no trouble.

 

Yes the process is wrong, unconstitutional, illegal, etc., etc. etc. Give your local PD a chance to do the right thing before you take any other action.

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New update: I was able to speak with the detective sergeant in charge of gun permit applications in Mt. Holly and he is a very helpful, reasonable person. He told me that it is fairly common for employers to refuse to complete the form they send out and it has not affected the progress of my application. He is still waiting to receive my fingerprints and mental health record and some other bits of information but anticipates having everything within the next couple of weeks. He also said that everything should be complete within a month or so, which is much sooner than I had originally been told. It looks like things are on track, after all. Why do they have to involve someone's boss in this process at all if they refuse so often? I explained to him that my boss's response was pretty harsh, although polite, and that I hope this process does not affect my relationship as his employee. I did join NJ2AS and will see if they can approach my township to convince them to stop trying to use this illegal form (I didn't describe it that way to the detective, btw). Thank all of you for your various helpful and enlightening suggestions!!

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Humm... this is a possibility. Although it will cost more than $20 for the W2 or 1099's to be printed every year. A better way may be to turn you into a 1099 contractor. You pay for the privilege of a website login - no different than an exotic dancer "paying" for her stage time. Now you are officially employed. And can earn a salary of $1.00 per year. This is theoretically possible.

 

Didn't think 1099's needed to be issued unless you made over 600 dollars for the year. If that's the case, people could be listed as independent representatives an wouldn't that be enough to satisfy the requirement of being self employed?

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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