Magazine Capacity and Law Enforcement question

[Justjules 0]

I was talking with a local FFL and he informed me that he could sell me high capacity magazines due the fact that I am L.E. He referred to 2C:39-9 subsection H)

 

h. Large capacity ammunition magazines. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of a large capacity ammunition magazine which is intended to be used for any purpose other than for authorized military or law enforcement purposes by duly authorized military or law enforcement personnel is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

 

Im no expert with the gun laws in depth and don't study much case law in regards to off duty L.E. having high capacity magazines for their personal weapons. Forgive me for my ignorance on this, but can some gun law gurus shed some light on this subject or point me in the right direction as far as case law?

 

I asked my departmental ABC officer and he said we are ok to own them. He went to a State Police course and they said not to read to much into the law and Law Enforcement is exempt from the magazine capacity restrictions with no specification on personal weapons or duty weapons personally owned. I don't want any issues owning something Im not supposed to own.

 

 

[Soju 153]

Oh yeah, Julian is back. I was missing your shenanigans.

 

I wouldn't read much into the law either. It doesn't mean anything to you unless you cross the blue line, which I know you won't. Knock yourself out. You can pretty much do what you want.

[High Exposure 5,664]

 

(609) 882-2000

 

Call this number. Extension 2060.

 

Ask them what their opinion is.

 

Report back.

[222 3]

Good luck man.

So confusing, right?

I wouldn't want the hassle: one day you quit or retire, and then suddenly it's like WTF gotta figure it all out again?!?

[vladtepes 1,060]

other than for authorized military or law enforcement purposes by duly authorized military or law enforcement personnel

 

 

 

IMO

duty related authorized by your department..

[Justjules 0]

 

(609) 882-2000

 

Call this number. Extension 2060.

 

Ask them what their opinion is.

 

Report back.

 

No answer. Sent an email, will report their findings.

[Justjules 0]

other than for authorized military or law enforcement purposes by duly authorized military or law enforcement personnel

 

 

 

IMO

duty related authorized by your department..

 

Here is another twist, Off duty weapon with 13-15 round magazines carried into NY state with their current 7 round capacity law. Technically Im a civilian in NY but authorized to carry in all 50 states by federal bill H.R. 218 Law Enforcement Safety Act. Would I be breaking the law in NY with my O.D. weapon?? LOL I am starting to agree on the stupidity of current gun laws.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Dude, these are questions you should be asking your Supervisor or agency legal council. Your agency should also have rules and regs as well as SOPs governing these topics. You should make yourself aware of them and become familiar.

 

You should not be soliciting legal advice on this topic via the intardweb.

 

You are showing your a$$. Knock it off.

 

ETA:

 

Additionally, read this and try to heed the lessons within:

 

http://www.birdsnest.com/garcia.htm

 

Judging by your post it will do wonders for your career.

Edited March 6, 2013 by High Exposure

[blksheep 466]

I was talking with a local FFL and he informed me that he could sell me high capacity magazines due the fact that I am L.E. He referred to 2C:39-9 subsection H)

 

 

h. Large capacity ammunition magazines. Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of a large capacity ammunition magazine which is intended to be used for any purpose other than for authorized military or law enforcement purposes by duly authorized military or law enforcement personnel is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

 

Im no expert with the gun laws in depth and don't study much case law in regards to off duty L.E. having high capacity magazines for their personal weapons. Forgive me for my ignorance on this, but can some gun law gurus shed some light on this subject or point me in the right direction as far as case law?

 

I asked my departmental ABC officer and he said we are ok to own them. He went to a State Police course and they said not to read to much into the law and Law Enforcement is exempt from the magazine capacity restrictions with no specification on personal weapons or duty weapons personally owned. I don't want any issues owning something Im not supposed to own.

 

 

 

What State Police course?

[raz-0 1,259]

As I understand it, you need to have the purchase approved on departmental letterhead, and if you stop working for that department, you are supposed to dispose or destroy.

I've known guys who have gotten their department to write them the letter for their personal stuff that would never, EVER be considered for on duty or official off duty use. Regardless, they have the letter, and they got it legally. How long it remains legal, and if they will be compliant with the law as written is another matter.

 

As for the transport of a currently NJ legal 12 round mag into NY by an off duty LEO federally authorized to carry? Not a frikin clue about practical considerations, but given the letter of the law, not legal. How's it feel to be just like everyone else?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

LOL, cops don't arrest other cops for stupid crap like this. Quid pro quo yo.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Ok then explain why a member of my dept got locked up for having 30 round mags. Cops do arrest other cops. My impression is that if they are being used in the performance of duties on or off you are exempt. Personal stuff is not exempt.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Ok then explain why a member of my dept got locked up for having 30 round mags. Cops do arrest other cops. My impression is that if they are being used in the performance of duties on or off you are exempt. Personal stuff is not exempt.

 

I said that hours ago... pretty sure he missed that part..

[Spike 7.62 0]

In addition to my federal job I am an Army reservist and among my issued items are 7 30rd M16 mags. I traded away my AR15 just last month, but before that I did use my 30 rounders to go shooting. I was asked about them by my friends only (no range control or stranger ever approached me) and with the line "I'm in the army" that was it. Logic would direct me to believe that a policeman would be in the same boat... but NJ is illogical, as is the concept of lesser capacity magazines to begin with..

[vladtepes 1,060]

In addition to my federal job I am an Army reservist and among my issued items are 7 30rd M16 mags. I traded away my AR15 just last month, but before that I did use my 30 rounders to go shooting. I was asked about them by my friends only (no range control or stranger ever approached me) and with the line "I'm in the army" that was it. Logic would direct me to believe that a policeman would be in the same boat... but NJ is illogical, as is the concept of lesser capacity magazines to begin with..

 

logic and the law are not always one in the same...

[Justjules 0]

Apparently it is a grey area. I called the SP and they did mention the department letterhead for magazines for duty weapons and off duty weapons, but did not know what the ruling on personal weapons would be.

 

I did check with my departments ABC division who are in charge of issuing FID cards and they had been to the SP for training and are all under the impression that LE is exempt and can have +15 round magazines regardless of the use, duty or personal. I will have to do more research within my department, as it is a topic I am not up to speed on admittedly.

 

 

As far as the individuals that feel the need to be wise guys and take shots at me in the form of sly comments, that is a perfect example why I have not been on this site for over a year..Nice friendly community huh?

[Justjules 0]

logic and the law are not always one in the same...

 

Personal interpretation of the law without any set standards is a big issue also. When there are grey areas and the decision is left up to an individual officer or prosecutor that is a major problem. If the law was simple across the board it would make life easier.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Unfortunately NJ is full of gray area being that it is based on case law and always changing. The other problem is like you said. Your abc guys don't find an issue but another dept might interpret it differently and you get screwed. It is completely ridiculous. LEO or not

[Tactical Turtle 11]

Ok then explain why a member of my dept got locked up for having 30 round mags. Cops do arrest other cops. My impression is that if they are being used in the performance of duties on or off you are exempt. Personal stuff is not exempt.

+100 only weapon I can have a "high cap " mag for is a weapon I qualify with

[maintenanceguy 510]

I'd say LEOs are

...As far as the individuals that feel the need to be wise guys and take shots at me in the form of sly comments, that is a perfect example why I have not been on this site for over a year..Nice friendly community huh?

 

Understand that some of us don't think it's fair that LEO's are exempted from so many laws that the rest of us must follow - often simply because your "brothers" would never hold you to the same legal standards they hold the rest of us to.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Even if I qualify with an off duty I would need a letter from my dept stating that I can carry over 15 rounds before it would be sold to me. I have been told that and I have been told it doesn't matter. It seems FFLs interpret stuff differently too. Gotta love jersey

[BlueLineFish 615]

I'd say LEOs are

 

 

Understand that some of us don't think it's fair that LEO's are exempted from so many laws that the rest of us must follow - often simply because your "brothers" would never hold you to the same legal standards they hold the rest of us to.

 

Just so everybody is aware it's not just other cops that great a break. I have given tons of people breaks instead of issuing them summonses. Also they're are a lot of cops that write other cops.

[diamondd817 826]

Ok then explain why a member of my dept got locked up for having 30 round mags. Cops do arrest other cops. My impression is that if they are being used in the performance of duties on or off you are exempt. Personal stuff is not exempt.

 

What ever happened to that guy?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Personal interpretation of the law without any set standards is a big issue also. When there are grey areas and the decision is left up to an individual officer or prosecutor that is a major problem. If the law was simple across the board it would make life easier.

 

no interpretation needed when the law is clear...

 

a police officer is telling you about another LEO that was in trouble for hi cap mags...

the law says

 

other than for authorized military or law enforcement purposes

 

there is no grey area.. the law is clear as can be.. you obviously WANT there to be one.. but if you just read that.. I am not sure how you could see a grey area..

 

an issued gun.. for use in your cruiser.. is an authorized purpose...

shooting your AK variant at the range on a Sunday is not likely to be....

 

 

this is assuming there is nothing additional in the law addressing it that has not already been discussed here..

[BlueLineFish 615]

 

What ever happened to that guy?

i believe he is just waiting but I'm pretty sure charges have been filed

[Parker 213]

Here is another twist, Off duty weapon with 13-15 round magazines carried into NY state with their current 7 round capacity law. Technically Im a civilian in NY but authorized to carry in all 50 states by federal bill H.R. 218 Law Enforcement Safety Act. Would I be breaking the law in NY with my O.D. weapon?? LOL I am starting to agree on the stupidity of current gun laws.

 

This might be helpful. Since the SAFE Act implementation, the NYSP has set up a hotline you can call with your questions: 1-855-LAW-GUNS

[iCARRY 0]

Department letterhead signed off by the highest LEO in the department. Must qualify with said weapon to carry off duty.

[Nick T 4]

Department letterhead signed off by the highest LEO in the department. Must qualify with said weapon to carry off duty.

This

[PK90 3,570]

Lets get on the same page here. The following is my opinion.

 

Currently, a magazine greater than 15 rounds is illegal to possess for an active LEO unless he either; one, qualifies semi-annually with the firearm that it belongs to as it is for official use; or two, has a letter from the chief purchasing agent of his department (Federal wording from past Ban). This is usually the chief. At no time can a Retired LEO possess these mags, even if they qualify with that firearm.

 

Soon to become law, possession for active LEO will not change. A Retired LEO will be exempt for 10-15 round capacity.

[Spike 7.62 0]

My advice, if you want to use your >15 round magazines for non-duty related shooting, get a letter signed by your supervisor specifically stating he has authorized you to do so. Thats how a chain of command works, the saying is "s*** rolls downhill" well in reality it rolls up hill. Follow orders from higher, so anytime you are called out for suspected wrongdoing you can say "talk to my supervisor" and now it's their actions under the microscope and not yours. If they did the right thing then there' nothing to worry about, he gets that extra pay to be responsible for you.

 

 

As far as the individuals that feel the need to be wise guys and take shots at me in the form of sly comments, that is a perfect example why I have not been on this site for over a year..Nice friendly community huh?

 

 

Well honestly you are the literal tool of our oppression, as is all NJ law enforcement. You can say you give breaks for this and that, but you are actually obligated to enforce unconstitutional laws that violate my civil rights. You made this choice and you make it again every time you put on that uniform. In addition, you may not even be subject to the laws you are obligated to enforce. So I cannot apologize for the lack of respect we have for our oppressors. If you don't like it then quit and live like the rest of us.