Alternatives to EOTech ?

[High Exposure 5,661]

The "tube" on an Aimpoint does not act like the tube on a typical magnified optic.

 

If used properly - both eyes open, focus on the threat, superimpose the dot over the target - you do not see a "tube". You see a blurry black 1 dimensional circlen in your peripheral vision.

 

Even after thousands of rounds through multiple rifles, subguns, and shotguns topped with RDSs (Aimpoint PRO, TI and M4s, EOTechs, Trij RMR and MS03, Insight MRDS, and a C-More) I couldn't tell you what my optics looked like while aiming, other than to tell you I saw a red dot.

 

If you are paying attention to the body of your optic instead of concentrating on putting the dot on the target and manipulating the trigger straight to the rear you are doing it wrong.

[MartyZ 692]

Wow, I have never seen so many people poo-pooing eotech. I had 2 vortex strikefires, which were excelent sights, and I replaced them with eotechs, one one reason, the reticle. I just dont like the single dot in the middle. Everyone has there own preferences, whether it be trainig deficiencies or what ever. Th OP asked for a less costly alternative to an eotech because he likes that type of sight and every one is trying to push aimpont as if they have stock in the company. And for anyone who says eotech is crap can stick their aimpoint were the sun dont shine.

[Alex V 99]

Wow, I have never seen so many people poo-pooing eotech. I had 2 vortex strikefires, which were excelent sights, and I replaced them with eotechs, one one reason, the reticle. I just dont like the single dot in the middle. Everyone has there own preferences, whether it be trainig deficiencies or what ever. Th OP asked for a less costly alternative to an eotech because he likes that type of sight and every one is trying to push aimpont as if they have stock in the company. And for anyone who says eotech is crap can stick their aimpoint were the sun dont shine.

 

The OP asked for a cheap knock-off for a good optic to replace a knock-off for another good optic. Most on here would see that as a very silly thing to do as the cost of those two knock-offs almost equate the cost of the good optic. I kinda feel that anyone in their right mind would call the OP out on the sillyness.

 

As far as Aimpoint vs EOTech, I dont think anyone is saying EOTech is shit, they are just saying Aimpoint is better. I happen to agree.

[MartyZ 692]

The OP asked for a cheap knock-off for a good optic to replace a knock-off for another good optic. Most on here would see that as a very silly thing to do as the cost of those two knock-offs almost equate the cost of the good optic. I kinda feel that anyone in their right mind would call the OP out on the sillyness.

 

The OP stated multiple times had he is looking for a cheaper alternative to eotech and has state many times that he doesn't like the aimpoint form factor. I agree that it makes no sense to buy knock-offs, I have made that same mistake a few times, it's just doesn't make finacial sense. But that being said, the OP has stated many times that he did not want an aimpoint style sight. And I will revise my original post, there were 2 reasons I chose eotech vs vortex strikefire (which is an exact form factor replica of aimpoint), 1) the reticle, 2) the larger angle of view.

 

As far as Aimpoint vs EOTech, I dont think anyone is saying EOTech is shit, they are just saying Aimpoint is better. I happen to agree.

 

That is a matter of opinion. Eotech, first of all, has a choice of reticles, not just a 4 MOA dot. Second of all, the eotech has a greater field of view, which makes it more suitable for CQ. Military uses mostly aimpoint, LE uses mostly eotech, both are top of the line optics with each having their own advantages and dis-advantages, and quality wise I don't think either is better then the other. The entire aimpoint vs eotech debate is driven strictly by personel opinion, and nothing else.

[RobertJames 14]

I should have been clearer with the thread title, and High Exposure, I'm sorry I got pissy. I was simply asking if anyone had experience with that particular sight, or something similar. I'm sure that the Aimpoint is an excellent optic as it has overwhelmingly been recomended. I just prefer the Eotech type, that's all.

 

And I don't mind being called silly either. Every time I've gone to my LGS to buy a good quality optic, something shiny on the gun rack catches my eye and something other than an optic goes home with me. Maybe that's not silly to some, though. Thanks to everyone who has replied.

[High Exposure 5,661]

The OP stated multiple times had he is looking for a cheaper alternative to eotech and has state many times that he doesn't like the aimpoint form factor. I agree that it makes no sense to buy knock-offs, I have made that same mistake a few times, it's just doesn't make finacial sense. But that being said, the OP has stated many times that he did not want an aimpoint style sight. And I will revise my original post, there were 2 reasons I chose eotech vs vortex strikefire (which is an exact form factor replica of aimpoint), 1) the reticle, 2) the larger angle of view.

 

1) Yes the reticle is personal preference. I personally find the Eo Tech to be cluttered. On the timer, I am consistently faster and more accurate with the Aimpoint than the Eo Tech by a good margin.

 

2) FOV is a non issue with an unmagnified RDS. With both eyes open (the proper way to use a RDS, and shoot at typical CQB distances) the FOV is the same. Whether you have nothing in front of your eye, an Aimpoint, an EoTech or any other RDS, your view will be unobstructed by the optic itself. If you mean to say that the EoTech has a larger viewing window, then yes, you are correct. But the size of the viewing window doesn't matter.

 

That is a matter of opinion. Eotech, first of all, has a choice of reticles, not just a 4 MOA dot. Second of all, the eotech has a greater field of view, which makes it more suitable for CQ. Military uses mostly aimpoint, LE uses mostly eotech, both are top of the line optics with each having their own advantages and dis-advantages, and quality wise I don't think either is better then the other. The entire aimpoint vs eotech debate is driven strictly by personel opinion, and nothing else.

 

[baron Munchhausen] Your "reality", Sir, is lies and balderdash, and I am delighted to say I have no grasp of it whatsoever! [/baron Munchhausen]

 

Firstly, and this is nitpicking, but the standard EoTech has a 1MOA dot with a 65 MOA ring around it (yes I know there are multiple reticle patterns, but I am unfamiliar with any that consist of a 4MOA dot)

 

Second I covered the FOV thing above - and by the way, what is your opinion of what is "more suitable" for CQ based on? Done a lot of FISHing have you? Trained for some serious DA or HR missions? I have never felt I'll equipped going on jobs with my Aimpoint. With the Eo Tech... Well, let's just say trying to find batteries and install them in an Eo Turd in the dark, in the back of a van doing 90, on the way to a possible hostage rescue sucks. Having those batteries go down as you enter the basement of the target house sucks even more.

 

Third, most of the Cops I know use Aimpoints (those that don't either were given the Eo Techs or mandated to use them) and I have yet to find a disadvantage to the Aimpoint after 5 years and multiple units.

 

The EoTech, on the other hand, I have found many disadvantages of after 7 years and a few units:

 

The EoTech has an auto shut off (who wants their optic to shutoff without being told too). If you turn it on with the "-" switch it shuts itself off after 4 hours, if you turn it on with the "+" it turns itself off after 8. I work 12 hour shifts and while that rifle is in the rack of my radio car the optic needs to stay on. I don't want to have remembe to turn it back on after 8 or 4 and I surely dont want to take any time to turn it on before engaging an immediate threat. That is one more step before I can fight back, and that is unacceptable. I never turn my Aimpoints off. Ever!

 

The EoTech has abysmal battery life compared to the Aimpoint (~200 hours vs 50,000 hours on the T1). If you use your optics a lot, and I do, the saving in the costs of batteries alone over a few years equals a new optic. The T1 I have had the longest has cost me $10 in batteries over the 5 years I have had it. I swap the batteries for fresh ones every January, but I could probably gotten away with a longer interval since the optic was still up and running when I swapped the batteries. I can put fresh batteries in my EoTech never turn it on and in 3 weeks, the batteries are dead - this tells me that I have to either store the batteries outside the optic, taking even more time to install them and then turn the optic on if I need my rifle, or I need to swap the batteries out every 1.5-2 weeks. Neither is acceptable for a fighting rifle in my opinion.

 

The EoTech has shoddy engineering of the battery compartment. I have seen many old style units (models with the battery compartment parallel to the barrel/recoil impulse) fail when the springs in the battery compartment and their rubber bushings failed. I have also seen many new style (models with the batty compartment perpendicular to the barrel/recoil impulse) fail when the battery ruptures because CR123 batteries were not designed to handle the repeated force of recoil in along that axis. You should not need a supply train of parts to keep an optic going. Some special military units use them. Great. Got it. They have the resources and supplies to keep them running with dedicated armorers and multiple units assigned to them. I do not and neither does my job.

 

My experience with EoTech has shown me that L3 has terrible QC/QA and I can not afford to give up my optic for 3 weeks for repairs every time it $hits the bed.

 

Finally, and these are personal opinion, I do not like the busy reticle, the EoTech units are bigger and heavier than the T1, they sit lower on the rail and they take up more real estate, and their controls can be counter-intuitive.

 

I should have been clearer with the thread title, and High Exposure, I'm sorry I got pissy. I was simply asking if anyone had experience with that particular sight, or something similar. I'm sure that the Aimpoint is an excellent optic as it has overwhelmingly been recomended. I just prefer the Eotech type, that's all.

 

And I don't mind being called silly either. Every time I've gone to my LGS to buy a good quality optic, something shiny on the gun rack catches my eye and something other than an optic goes home with me. Maybe that's not silly to some, though. Thanks to everyone who has replied.

 

No worries bro. And like I said, good luck with whatever optic you go with.

[MartyZ 692]

1) Yes the reticle is personal preference. I personally find the Eo Tech to be cluttered. On the timer, I am consistently faster and more accurate with the Aimpoint than the Eo Tech by a good margin.

 

2) FOV is a non issue with an unmagnified RDS. With both eyes open (the proper way to use a RDS, and shoot at typical CQB distances) the FOV is the same. Whether you have nothing in front of your eye, an Aimpoint, an EoTech or any other RDS, your view will be unobstructed by the optic itself. If you mean to say that the EoTech has a larger viewing window, then yes, you are correct. But the size of the viewing window doesn't matter.

 

 

 

[baron Munchhausen] Your "reality", Sir, is lies and balderdash, and I am delighted to say I have no grasp of it whatsoever! [/baron Munchhausen]

 

Firstly, and this is nitpicking, but the standard EoTech has a 1MOA dot with a 65 MOA ring around it (yes I know there are multiple reticle patterns, but I am unfamiliar with any that consist of a 4MOA dot)

 

Second I covered the FOV thing above - and by the way, what is your opinion of what is "more suitable" for CQ based on? Done a lot of FISHing have you? Trained for some serious DA or HR missions? I have never felt I'll equipped going on jobs with my Aimpoint. With the Eo Tech... Well, let's just say trying to find batteries and install them in an Eo Turd in the dark, in the back of a van doing 90, on the way to a possible hostage rescue sucks. Having those batteries go down as you enter the basement of the target house sucks even more.

 

Third, most of the Cops I know use Aimpoints (those that don't either were given the Eo Techs or mandated to use them) and I have yet to find a disadvantage to the Aimpoint after 5 years and multiple units.

 

The EoTech, on the other hand, I have found many disadvantages of after 7 years and a few units:

 

The EoTech has an auto shut off (who wants their optic to shutoff without being told too). If you turn it on with the "-" switch it shuts itself off after 4 hours, if you turn it on with the "+" it turns itself off after 8. I work 12 hour shifts and while that rifle is in the rack of my radio car the optic needs to stay on. I don't want to have remembe to turn it back on after 8 or 4 and I surely dont want to take any time to turn it on before engaging an immediate threat. That is one more step before I can fight back, and that is unacceptable. I never turn my Aimpoints off. Ever!

 

The EoTech has abysmal battery life compared to the Aimpoint (~200 hours vs 50,000 hours on the T1). If you use your optics a lot, and I do, the saving in the costs of batteries alone over a few years equals a new optic. The T1 I have had the longest has cost me $10 in batteries over the 5 years I have had it. I swap the batteries for fresh ones every January, but I could probably gotten away with a longer interval since the optic was still up and running when I swapped the batteries. I can put fresh batteries in my EoTech never turn it on and in 3 weeks, the batteries are dead - this tells me that I have to either store the batteries outside the optic, taking even more time to install them and then turn the optic on if I need my rifle, or I need to swap the batteries out every 1.5-2 weeks. Neither is acceptable for a fighting rifle in my opinion.

 

The EoTech has shoddy engineering of the battery compartment. I have seen many old style units (models with the battery compartment parallel to the barrel/recoil impulse) fail when the springs in the battery compartment and their rubber bushings failed. I have also seen many new style (models with the batty compartment perpendicular to the barrel/recoil impulse) fail when the battery ruptures because CR123 batteries were not designed to handle the repeated force of recoil in along that axis. You should not need a supply train of parts to keep an optic going. Some special military units use them. Great. Got it. They have the resources and supplies to keep them running with dedicated armorers and multiple units assigned to them. I do not and neither does my job.

 

My experience with EoTech has shown me that L3 has terrible QC/QA and I can not afford to give up my optic for 3 weeks for repairs every time it $hits the bed.

 

Finally, and these are personal opinion, I do not like the busy reticle, the EoTech units are bigger and heavier than the T1, they sit lower on the rail and they take up more real estate, and their controls can be counter-intuitive.

 

 

 

No worries bro. And like I said, good luck with whatever optic you go with.

 

No I haven't done any missions or trained for any, everything I know is from months of research prior to buying the eotech. And I don't think the OP will be using it for anything other than target shooting, otherwise he wouldn't ask for a cheaper alternative. The point I was trying to make was that every time any question is asked it turns into a "ford vs chevy" style pissing match and never really answering the OPs original question. And the 4 moa dot I was reffering to was on the aimpoint. As far as field of view, whenever I used the vortex strikefire, if I didn't have a good cheak weld the walls of the tube obstructed the dot, on the eotech, I never had that problem. If you had better experience with the aimpoint then the eotech, then that is your experience and that is what works best for you. I never said aimpoint was not a great optic, what I said was that everyone has their own opinion based on their own experiences.

 

And yes, my research did lead me to the fact that eotech is used more than aimpoint by LE in the US. If my research has been faulty then I appoligize for the rant.

[CageFighter 236]

best Eotech/Aimpoint knockoff is a Vortex SPARC. wait for a coupon code and get 10%+ off the $199 tag.

- be patient my friend & shop around the holidays!

[checko 180]

best Eotech knockoff is a Vortex SPARC. wait for a coupon code and get 10%+ off the $199 tag.

- be patient my friend & shop around the holidays!

 

Huh? You mean aim point knockoff?

[Holeshot 3]

Be patient. Save a little longer. Buy an Aimpoint PRO T1 . Realize it was the best purchase you ever made for your rifle. Thank me later.

 

Buy cheap buy twice, buy once cry once.

 

 

Fixed it for you

 

Also the catchy phrase needs some work, it doesn't flow properly.

 

Maybe try: Buy cheap and continue to weep......buy once, cry once.

[High Exposure 5,661]

I agree and prefer the T1. However the PRO is just as capable.

 

For most users the extra cost of the T1 over the PRO models, the juice is simply not worth the squeeze.

 

Personally, the weight savings and lower profile of the Aimpoint Micro is worth the extra cost.

[vladtepes 1,060]

No I haven't done any missions or trained for any, everything I know is from months of research prior to buying the eotech. And I don't think the OP will be using it for anything other than target shooting, otherwise he wouldn't ask for a cheaper alternative. The point I was trying to make was that every time any question is asked it turns into a "ford vs chevy" style pissing match and never really answering the OPs original question. And the 4 moa dot I was reffering to was on the aimpoint. As far as field of view, whenever I used the vortex strikefire, if I didn't have a good cheak weld the walls of the tube obstructed the dot, on the eotech, I never had that problem. If you had better experience with the aimpoint then the eotech, then that is your experience and that is what works best for you. I never said aimpoint was not a great optic, what I said was that everyone has their own opinion based on their own experiences.

 

And yes, my research did lead me to the fact that eotech is used more than aimpoint by LE in the US. If my research has been faulty then I appoligize for the rant.

 

the reason the question was answered the way it was is extremely simple... cost is an issue...

for roughly $400 you get an Aimpoint that does everything... excellent battery time.... high quality construction.. and even NVC..

not sure what eotech is offered at the same price point....

 

Having used both I prefer a simple dot.. I find it faster.. but I do agree that part is a personal preference...

 

I have to admit.. I am curious what aspect of your research lead you to feel that eotechs are better..

 

as for your cheek weld.. and the vortex... your cheek weld gets consistent with training... beyond that I have never seen the walls of the tube obstruct the dot and I have had multiple Aimpoints.. micros.. pro.. etc.. and used them for fast close shooting..

 

the reason it comes to a debate of quality is because of the track record of both..

and the aimpoint offers a product with a better battery time.. and virtually flawless performance history.. where as there are countless eotech nightmares out there..

my batteries in my AImpoints last so long that I literally leave them on all the time.. 24 hours a day.. I pick it up and it is ready to go.. no switch.. no click.. no nothing.. and even ON all the time it will last years..

 

not trying to knock your choice.. you do what you like.. but I can't imagine why you would think an eotech is a better choice..with exception of the single preference of reticle...

[MartyZ 692]

 

I have to admit.. I am curious what aspect of your research lead you to feel that eotechs are better..

 

 

If you look back at any of my posts, you will notice that I NEVER said that eotech is better. What I said was that both optics are of high quality and it comes down to personel prefference as to which one anyone chooses.

 

What I have been trying to say, and maybe i've been saying it wrong, is that if someone is dead set on a holographic sight and stated specifically that he is not interested in a reflex sight for what ever reason, why is everyone trying to sell him on a reflex sight.

[vladtepes 1,060]

If you look back at any of my posts, you will notice that I NEVER said that eotech is better. What I said was that both optics are of high quality and it comes down to personel prefference as to which one anyone chooses.

 

What I have been trying to say, and maybe i've been saying it wrong, is that if someone is dead set on a holographic sight and stated specifically that he is not interested in a reflex sight for what ever reason, why is everyone trying to sell him on a reflex sight.

 

the reason is extremely simple... the point is to recommend what fits the needs of the individual shooter the best..

the primary need is to reliably get rounds on target... through a non magnified optic.... with that in mind there are numerous optics that fit that role...

to decide which of those available optics fits the needs of the shooter the best we have to look at the things that matter...

 

* build quality... most higher end optics are of a decent build quality.. with that said.. there are certainly a fair share of Eotech nightmare stories.... not too many Aimpoint stories to compare... this does not mean Eotech is garbage... it just means based on history of use typically you can find more complaints about Eotech....

 

* battery life.... Aimpoint destroys Eotech... we know that... high level of battery efficiency makes for a more reliable optic... dead batteries in something like an optic can be a nightmare at the wrong time...

 

* features.... while not relevant to most shooters.. the least expensive Aimpoint is still NVC... again does that matter to most shooters? nope... but why not get more for less...

 

the thing that brings me to recommend Aimpoint is simple.. you are getting more of an optic for less money.. sure there is the factor of the reticle... if you prefer the Eotech one then obviously that is a good reason to get an Eotech... I do not prefer it.. I also find it too busy.. at the end of the day Eotech and Aimpoint serve the same role.. so it is reasonable to compare them..

[scorched 0]

Keep looking for an eotech. Found a 512 on sale for 320 back in oct.

[medic2264 11]

eotech, is this how it works, and are these the LEO's that said it was the best?

 

[MartyZ 692]

That is funny as hell, but it doesn't appear to be exclusivr to eotech users. I'm not trying to fuel the fire here but I just couldn't resist.

 

The scary part is that both these pictures are NY SWAT.

[High Exposure 5,661]

Any user can be a dolt - Be it LEO, mil, or civ.

 

Those photos are a demonstration of a software issue (training and leadership), not a hardware one (equipment).

 

At least the cop with the Eo Tech realized there was a problem and has his BUIS up.

 

Also, a small nit-picky point of order, the NYPD cop with the backwards Aimpoint is not a SWAT Cop but is an NYPD Emergency Services Unit (ESU) cop. Their unofficial motto is "SWAT we're not".

[MartyZ 692]

Also, a small nit-picky point of order, the NYPD cop with the backwards Aimpoint is not a SWAT Cop but is an NYPD Emergency Services Unit (ESU) cop. Their unofficial motto is "SWAT we're not".

 

My mistake, that's what was written on the original post in a different forum where I got the picture. And you are 100% right, it is a software issue. But both photos are extremely funny though.

[CageFighter 236]

Eotech battery life sucks! especially when u just got to the range and dont have any extra batteries.

I found out the hard way and had to beg a fellow shooter for his extra (not cool)

[High Exposure 5,661]

Imagine how that feels when you need your rifle for real, not just at the range. I will tell you it sucks.

 

That is why the one Eo Turd I still own now lives on my MP 15-22 which is dedicated to training and competition duty only. If it fails all I lose is a comp or some training time, not my life, my partners life, or the life of an innocent.

 

When I can scrape the cash together, I will sell it and add cash for a T1. I don't even want that turd on a .22 gun dedicated to training.

[acuevo 0]

eventually i am going for an aimpoint. TOO expensive right now so i bought a bushnell trs-25. i gota say for 100 bucks its a great sight, granted my first, but it seems to be very well made, crisp dot if you have the brightness set according to the ambient light.

 

i'd recommend it to anyone on here thats looking for a quality, affordable RDS. i've also heard a lot of great things about the vortex strikefire, burris fastfire and the sightron s33-4r

[MartyZ 692]

Arlticle on foxnews.com today titled

'WE GOT HIM': Authorities Now Hunt For Answers in Boston Bombing

 

With the following picture

[Jon 264]

Arlticle on foxnews.com today titled

'WE GOT HIM': Authorities Now Hunt For Answers in Boston Bombing

 

With the following picture

 

So... one unit of the thousands of cops who flocked to Boston was issued eoturds... your point?

[MartyZ 692]

So... one unit of the thousands of cops who flocked to Boston was issued eoturds... your point?

 

It doesn't matter what my point is, because no matter what I say it all falls on deaf ears. You guys are so in love with the aimpoint that any positive opinion about eotech is foreign to you.

[Jon 264]

It doesn't matter what my point is, because no matter what I say it all falls on deaf ears. You guys are so in love with the aimpoint that any positive opinion about eotech is foreign to you.

 

My agency issues the eoturd too, simply because it's cheap. They also issue Glocks, simply because they're cheap. Everyone wanted better stuff, but it didn't fit the budget.

[MartyZ 692]

My agency issues the eoturd too, simply because it's cheap.

 

??? Werent you guys saying that eotechs are more expensive then aimpoints.

[SJG 253]

Eotech Eotech Eotech-----pick up a used one on Ebay-----they last and last, and, if you have any problems Eotech will fix it and, as long as it is not a clone, rarely, will they charge for repair

[High Exposure 5,661]

Eotech Eotech Eotech-----pick up a used one on Ebay-----they last and last, and, if you have any problems Eotech will fix it and, as long as it is not a clone, rarely, will they charge for repair

 

This is 100% counter to my experience with L3 and Eo Techs in general. They do NOT last and last.

 

Additionally, what do you use while your optic is away getting repaired 2-3 times a year at 3-4 weeks an event. I need my rifle for work daily. I do not want to lose the advantage of my RDS if I don't have to.

 

I have no idea how good Aimpoint's CS is because I have never had to use it...

 

In my job, we call that a clue

[vladtepes 1,060]

It doesn't matter what my point is, because no matter what I say it all falls on deaf ears. You guys are so in love with the aimpoint that any positive opinion about eotech is foreign to you.

 

tell me why eotech is better...

 

battery life

Aimpoint wins

 

value

AImpoint wins... you get a NVC optic with a mount for under $400

 

reported failures

you can say all day that your eotech works well.. but I can find pages of failures about Eotech.. and rarely do I hear about Aimpoint failures...

 

 

so seriously.. im listening.. please tell me where the advantage is with Eotech..