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RUTGERS95

acog questions

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I'm thinking of getting rid of a vortex viper pst 1-4x24 and replacing with a 4x trijicon acog. There seems to be many options so not sure which way to go. I don't want to drop too much coin on one as I know some are 2k. What are my options here with them that will keep me in the 8-900 range?

 

thanks

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I have a TA-31H (Trit and Fiber Optic) on my AR and I love it. I'm not terribly worried about the short eye relief. Hasn't been an issue yet.

 

You can sometimes find TA-01s new for around $800-$900... or buy used.

 

Quick note: if you review something on Optics Planet they send you a 10% coupon off anything. I did that and bought my ACOG from them... saved $120+.

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All of them are tritium illuminated (*except the newest model that came out a year or two ago "The Battery ACOG") - the deal is some of them are only tritium illuminated and in the day its plain clear glass (like the TA01NSN included in the SOPMOD base kit) and some of them [arguably the better/more desirable/ones you're probably wanting) are illuminated with tritium and fiber optic... you can see the 'fiber optic tube' aka 'light pipe' (Wikipedia will call it a Light Pipe lol) across the sight in yellow/red/green color... this basically is catching and amplifying ambient light / daylight during normal hours and brightening the reticle from the fiber optic tube during the day and at night / lower light level hours it uses the tritium pellet to illuminate the reticle.

 

They're all expensive it's really a matter in my mind anyway of saying "Do I want to spend a $1000-$1500 plus for the base model / bare bones or do i want to just Buy Once Cry Once and get the $1500-$2000 and have an absolutely awesome top of the line optic 4x32 BAC [bindon Aiming Concept thats another lesson for another day] Fiber Optic/ Tritium ACOG that will most likely last as long as me and my rifle last if not longer. For me its no question I would be buying the 4x32 BAC Fiber Optic/Tritium ones.

 

Then its a matter of checking out the different reticle choices and see which reticle/ bullet drop compensating picture you like the best ... there will be a bunch of choices (Assuming you're talking about a 5.56/.223 rifle) so you can see what looks best to you, and in what color you like best (I'd probably go green, but red is very popular ,yellow is supposedly for low light usage but I am not rich enough to have a dedicated 'low light rifle and low light ACOG' for dusk shooting lol.)

 

 

 

- of course the higher magnification models are much more expensive.... BUT- the 5.5x50 ACOG is not a standard AR-15 sight its an extremely specific application and the 6x models are huge sized much more expensive and also for specific roles on specific weapons, not your typical 14.5"/1.5" AR/M4 style carbine optic.

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Scrap, have you used a 4x acog? To the OP, everyone is different but I can tell you my TA01NSN never even made it to the range! I sold it for a loss because I knew it was not going to work at all for me. I have played with just about every Acog out there. The eye relief of the TA11 and TA33 make those the clear choices IMO. The difference between 3.5 and 4 is negligable, but the difference in eye reliefe is big. On 4x Acogs my eye socket feels like its molesting the objective! I like the TA33 on 5.56 rifles because 3x is a good trade off, sacrificing some far end distance for some near end speed. I can run the TA33 down to about 30yds and only give up fractions of a second to my red dots but pick up serious time over the red dots 75 yds and out. YMMV...

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yeah I am not understanding, all i did was explain that , OP says, "So many options some are tritium some are not" . I was simply trying to explain They All are tritium, some are tritium and fiber optic. I think I was further trying to say, i would never buy a simply tritium one (Like the TA01NSN for example which I believe is an extremely popular model by sales) because its still like $1000+ and it's lacking the fiber optic which would be a requirement for me.

 

I certainly have not played with all of them out there nor did I make any claim near to that. I've used a couple and looked at a couple others when I was interested in buying , one time I was planning on starting an AR collection and would have added an AR with an ACOG on it. My problem is that while an AR with an ACOG (say 4x32 model) is a great rifle *in general* I would feel the need for an AR w/ an Aimpoint an AR w/ the ACOG an an AR /w a real scope , for each different use. I could not resolve my expensive tastes so I gave up and frankly started collecting shotguns and my other stuff in general.. [And then came close to buying the 7.62x39mm ACOG 3x but instead of another AK and ACOG I went with the R700 I bought and have been working on the past few months.)

 

 

 

I know you're an expert man, I know this, I am not trying to argue with you , or one up you , or disagree with you, or anything. I simply was trying to add to the gentlemans knowledge by explaining the lighting systems of the ACOG and my small amount of personal experience and opinion . I happen to have liked the 4x ACOG I just think its an extremely expensive piece of kit with a fairly specific purpose and further I would also feel the need for the RMR/Docter on top if I did buy one, which I'm not but again, it would be like a $2500 optic on top of whatever the rifle costs.

 

For me and my family, and therefore my money, I am extremely happy with an AK and a shotgun for close range and a scoped rifle for long range and don't really have a big personal need for a 'medium range' weapon like an AR w/ ACOG. If I had unlimited money *absolutely I would * no question. But I have to pick and choose and it didn't work for me. I sold my AR and probably would not had I known what December had in store but.

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Scrap, I do not lump myself in the expert catagory, for the record. However, I have a fair amount of trigger time behind a lot of different optics and believe I can offer some insight. I asked you if you had time behind one because maybe you have found ways to overcome issues with the 4x I have not. Or perhaps there is some factor I did not consider that made a 4x a more attractive consideration. When I read your post I certainly came away with an impression of experience and thus the question. In my view the TA01 was populer at one time because the mil bought them so everyone follows. However, that dont always translate to what is good, better, best. Just because I felt it sucked dont mean it dont have a niche or a role that it fills, it just didnt meet my needs. But I think what I look for in an Acog is more in line with what the average person is looking for, and that is a more balanced ability of accuracy and speed on target on a wider spectrum distance it is usefull at. But the most valuable advice i can give regarding an Acog is to beg borrow or steal some time behind one because not everyone can use one well. Some people just cant shoot with both eyes open. This kills some of the advantages an Acog offers. Others just dont do well with them. There is a fellow shooter on this board that I would say is extremely even to my abilities in shooting combat drills with an AR. Ahead in some respects, behind in other but we are talking fractions of seconds difference here, right up until the Acogs come out. Then I leap ahead by a rather large margin. This cause me to really do some research. The answer may suprise you. The theory, vetted to some degree by real experts in the field, is that the difference had nothing to do with optics or eyesight. It had everything to do with what sight picture you brain could do well with having presented to it. For whatever reason, my brain is not affected hardly at all when it is presented with magnification and or a true reticle configuration. My speeds, according to the shot timer, do not fall off hardly at all when presented with a sight picture that is significantly different than that of a red glowing dot. His brain wanted to see a red dot and when it didnt, it did not process the target/reticle nearly as fast.

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thanks for the commentary guys....

 

the reason I decided to go this route was shooting alongside a buddy of mine, not sure which acog he was using as he has many of them, and the fov was far superior and the clarity better than my pst 1-4x. It was as if the magnification was higher.

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I was able to snag a brand new Acog TA31RCO from Botach for $900.

There is a lot of negative sentiment with them as a retailer but I took the chance for the acog at that price point.

 

Received it within a week with no issues but ymmv with them..

 

Good luck!

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I'm thinking of getting rid of a vortex viper pst 1-4x24 and replacing with a 4x trijicon acog. There seems to be many options so not sure which way to go. I don't want to drop too much coin on one as I know some are 2k. What are my options here with them that will keep me in the 8-900 range?

 

The other three big questions besides budget, which you already answered, are: caliber, engagement distance, shooting style (for lack of a better term)?

 

My general thoughts:

1-4x and other variable optics are the Jack of all trades, but unless you get into the very high end models (S&B 1-4, Swarovski Z6, Elcan SpecterDR) they still leave something to be desired at either 1x, in between, or 4x. And even still weight is always a sacrifice. If looking to make a jump from a 1-4x to a Acog - my recommendations would be right along with Shane's (big surprise :haha: ).

 

Acogs:

I started with a TA01NSN - 5.56 -could not stand the tritium only reticle and the obnoxiously short eye relief. My shooting glasses were basically touching the objective.

Moved to a TA31 - 5.56 - better eye relief, huge improvement with the fiber optic/tritium combo, but in the end similar issue

Tried a TA33 - 5.56 - the best 5.56 mid to long range Acog that I have had trigger time with. Light weight, tough, and good out to 300 yards. Only downside is a narrow FOV

Then tried a TA11 - .308 - Immense FOV. So large you have to see it to believe it. Even though this was in .308, I could begin to get over my brain's need "to see a glowing red dot" and was on target the fastest out of all the Acogs I've tried.

 

My problems:

My issue is if the target is closer than 40-50 yards while doing non-standard shooting positions, my brain does not like processing the "center of the reticle" on a target. Even with the Acog Horeshoe or Triangle, I still had this issue. It was glaringly obvious when looking at targets 5-15 yards out, where the magnification (and limited FOV in some models) compounded the issue for me, and my split times suffered. It could potentially be a training/brain memory issue - since I probably have 100 rounds downrange using a RDS for every 1 round behind magnification.

 

Final comments:

I prefer RDS on almost all my rifles (besides dedicated precision) or at least the capacity to have the 1x available if needed. Everyone is different, which is why shooting a variety of optics is important. Holding them at a gun show or gun store is not the same. Touching back on my point about shooting style - Practical/Dynamic/Defensive shooting has completely different requirements then benchrest shooting, or even just "blasting away" at the range. Having targets only at 100 yards or greater negates many of the downfalls (IMO) of the Acog's fixed magnification. All things to consider before dropping $1k on quality optics.

 

 

ETA: I don't post that much anymore, so I decided to write this up like a review just for S&G's :dancing:

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I'm stuck in this internal debate with myself between RDS/HWS and magnified optics. I built a rifle to have the ability to accurately send lead down range, but I still want it to be useful for close quarters combat (civil unrest, zombies, home defense, etc). I have a good set of Troy BUIS, but are they usable through a magnified sight? I was looking at the 4x acog, but would the 3x be usable for short range(Under 30 yards) shooting?

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You can go with a RDS and flip to the side magnifier.

 

Look for sales, http://www.gggaz.com...ue-package.html

 

The EoTech magnifier isn't cheap, but wait for a 10% off from Optics Planet or something or you could go with a Primary Arms magnifier.

 

With the EoTech magnifier you'd be at the top end of your budget or a little over, but it is a quality piece.

 

I have a 517 on one of my rifles with the G33STS. If you want to come to CJ one day and check it out, let me know.

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all good comments.. but my 2c. I went away from 2 Acogs in favor of 1 -4 optics.. and looking in to 1- 6x now.

 

to each its own of course, Acog's glass and FOV is unmatched. but short eye relief and CQB (3 gun close up targets) was not working well for me.

 

I like my eotechs and aimpoints T1 on my dedicated CQB rifles, but my all around go to is 1-4 optics that will be replaced by 1 - 6 as soon as i can make up my mind which one to get.

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As I always say Optics is nothing but compromise and tradeoff. I have run through the gambit more than a couple of times and continue to do so like a hamster on a wheel :). When you start to look at 1-4's and 1-6's weight and balance becomes the consideration as well as eye reliefe. But in my view a lot of these decisions are dictated by role. And so I have moved from trying to find the 1 do it all to having options. So for example as part of my kit for my rifle i have on QR mounts, a T1 Micro, a TA11H-G, A US Optics 1.5-6 and a Hensholdt 4-16. The Acog lives on the rifle however. I intend on giving the T1 on an offset in tandem with the Acog a dance. The setups I did not like at all that never even got past the function test stage are the dot and 3x magnifier on a swing mount or the rds riding an acog like a pony.

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With the EoTech magnifier you'd be at the top end of your budget or a little over, but it is a quality piece.

 

I have a 517 on one of my rifles with the G33STS. If you want to come to CJ one day and check it out, let me know.

 

I'm all about the red dot with the flip to side magnifier. Whether you go with an EOTech or the Aimpoint mag or red dot. That way you have the close quater with the magnifier to the side and get the 3.5x zoom with the magnifiers up for longer range work.

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all good comments.. but my 2c. I went away from 2 Acogs in favor of 1 -4 optics.. and looking in to 1- 6x now.

 

to each its own of course, Acog's glass and FOV is unmatched. but short eye relief and CQB (3 gun close up targets) was not working well for me.

 

I like my eotechs and aimpoints T1 on my dedicated CQB rifles, but my all around go to is 1-4 optics that will be replaced by 1 - 6 as soon as i can make up my mind which one to get.

Range Tactics solved the short eye relief issue for the ACOG.... :)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn9oPqGPgK4

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