Jump to content
302w

AZ CCW in PA

Recommended Posts

My dad and I are planning to get AZ CCW's in order to carry in PA, I am going to take an online class and he is just going to use his DD 214. I'm going to call the nice people in Arizona to figure out what classes are accepted, as there sure seems to be a whole lot of them online.

 

Anyway, it's looking like PA is going to honor resident permits only with all states, like they did recently with Florida. I read somewhere that one can still open carry with any permit, and not be restricted by the limitations of vehicles and Philly. Is this true? I cannot find it online. This would mean that a Florida non-res would allow you to carry everywhere (except courts and such) so long as it is open.

 

I am aware that one can open carry so long as they are not in a car, but this is not what I am talking about.

 

EDIT: This is what I was talking about. I just can't find anything 'official'. Found it here http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-carry-145/210458-i-cant-carry-pa-anymore.html

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachman viewpost.gif

I am a resident of New Jersey and I have a valid CWP from Florida. I just learned that I cannot legally carry concealed anymore in Pa. because of a newly enacted law. My question is twofold: 1. Can I obtain a Pa. CWP as a non-resident from New Jersey with a Fl. CWP? 2. Would a Utah CWP with my N. J. address allow me to carry concealed in Pa?

1) You can still transport your handgun, loaded or unloaded, open or concealed, glove, trunk, hip, passenger seat, or anyway you wish, with your Florida permit. When you get out of your vehicle you MUST be open carry. You may no longer carry concealed in PA, and you may not carry at all in Philadelphia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not believe you will find anything "official" about open carry.

 

IANAL

 

From PA State Police website: "A Pennsylvania license cannot be issued to a resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by their home state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury."

 

From PAFOA website: "While Pennsylvania has a specific law that requires a License To Carry Firearms for the concealed carry of a firearm, and the carry of firearms in vehicles, the law is silent on the legality of openly carrying a firearm in other situations, making it de-facto legal.

 

8 Pa.C.S. § 6108: Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia

  • No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:
    • (1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
    • (2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).

To summarize, open carry is legal in Pennsylvania without a License To Carry Firearms except in "cities of the first class" (Philadelphia) and vehicles where a License To Carry Firearms is required to do so."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My dad and I are planning to get AZ CCW's in order to carry in PA, I am going to take an online class and he is just going to use his DD 214. I'm going to call the nice people in Arizona to figure out what classes are accepted, as there sure seems to be a whole lot of them online.

 

Anyway, it's looking like PA is going to honor resident permits only with all states, like they did recently with Florida. I read somewhere that one can still open carry with any permit, and not be restricted by the limitations of vehicles and Philly. Is this true? I cannot find it online. This would mean that a Florida non-res would allow you to carry everywhere (except courts and such) so long as it is open.

 

I am aware that one can open carry so long as they are not in a car, but this is not what I am talking about.

 

EDIT: This is what I was talking about. I just can't find anything 'official'. Found it here http://forum.pafoa.o...pa-anymore.html

 

The PA Attorney General's website indicates there are 6 categories of firearms reciprocity status. Category 2 is interesting in that it appears that the statutes would need to be changed to eliminate reciprocity from these states and that the attorney general could not simply cancel the reciprocity agreement by herself. Anybody else read it this way?

 

If that is the case, the Utah permit may be the one to get.

 

 

 

 

Category 2: States that have statutory reciprocity under 6106(b)(15) of the Uniform Firearms Act.

The following states have been granted statutory reciprocity without a formal written agreement under 6106(b)(15), based on the determination of the Attorney General that the other state has granted reciprocity to Pennsylvania license holders, and that the other state's laws governing firearms are similar.

  • Colorado
  • Iowa
  • Idaho
  • Indiana
  • Louisiana
  • Mississippi
  • Montana
  • North Dakota
  • Utah
  • Wisconsin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far it's only Florida but this new AG is chomping at the bit to neuter the 2A in PA. Basically what would happen is that PA residents, particularly in Philly would encounter tons of roadblocks and waiting to get their PA license to carry. Some of these people are bodyguards and the like. They ended up just getting a FL permit and using that instead. Now this new AG (she's a democrat) decides she's going to close the "florida loophole" and with the stroke of a pen invalidates CCW for nonresident Florida permits.

 

Utah is indeed the way to go. It's too bad though that you have to now take the specific Utah training which is more $$$ but it seems to be a more bulletproof way to keep carry in PA since the legislature would have to change the laws.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All permits, except FL, that are recognized by PA, are also recognized for non-residents.

 

All permits, regardless of whether they are recognized by PA or not, allow for vehicular carry. Including non-resident Florida. But do not allow concealing nor carry in Philly. Since vehicular carry is the practical barrier to open carry in PA without a permit, any carry permit from any state allows you to overcome that in PA, including FL, but don't conceal and don't carry in Philly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not believe you will find anything "official" about open carry.

 

IANAL

 

 

I don't think you will find anything "official" about wearing a blue shirt in public in PA, either. Because there is no law about it.

 

But this is the "official" 3-hour portion of the MPOETC training dedicated to Open Carry that every police officer in PA went through in 2009:

 

http://www.lildobe.net/PAFOA_Docs/MPOTEC_OC_Update_2009.pdf

 

And they are going through a complete refresher on it again this year but I don't have a copy yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All permits, regardless of whether they are recognized by PA or not, allow for vehicular carry.

 

Do you know where I could find that online? I am not calling you a liar or anything, I would just like to have the information in my truck if I get my AZ and it goes the same route as FL. I don't want to be driving around with my .38 and run into the wrong LEO if AZ becomes resident only. Having the law on hand may be beneficial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a coincidence. I just happen to have that section of the PA UFA copied and on my clipboard because I am posting on NJGunforums this afternoon.

 

All of it is right here:

 

http://www.acslpa.org/html/pa_uniform_firearms_act.html

 

Here is the section that interests you:

 

ELEVEN!!!

 

Title 18

 

 

 

§6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

 

 

 

(a) Offense defined.--

 

* (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

* (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.

*

 

* (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

 

* (1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.

* (2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.

* (3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this Commonwealth.

* (4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.

* (5) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.

* (6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.

* (7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.

* (8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.

* (9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.

* (10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.

* (11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

* (12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.

* (13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.

* (14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C § 921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18 U.S.C. § 926A (relating to interstate transportation of firearms).

* (15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:

* (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.

* (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.

* (16) Any person holding a license in accordance with section 6109(f)(3).

 

 

(from now on I am just going to call out the number of the exception to §6106(a)(2)(b) instead of posting §6106 over and over again ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FYI regarding AZ CCW: being from New Germany, I too had concerns about what "training requirement" AZ has as a condition of CCW.

When I called the gal in Public Safety again, she said "so long as the class is an NRA or equivalent safety course, we CANNOT specify the type and scope of the class required".

I'm trying to move the wife and I to AZ in the next 4 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All permits, except FL, that are recognized by PA, are also recognized for non-residents.

 

All permits, regardless of whether they are recognized by PA or not, allow for vehicular carry. Including non-resident Florida. But do not allow concealing nor carry in Philly. Since vehicular carry is the practical barrier to open carry in PA without a permit, any carry permit from any state allows you to overcome that in PA, including FL, but don't conceal and don't carry in Philly.

 

Yay. I can still OC in Pa with my Florida permit, thanks for the good news.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, to recap, with my Utah permit, I'm good to go with concealed carry anywhere in PA whether I be in a car or on foot. Even in Philly. However, as far as PA is concerned, my FL license is just a worthless piece of plastic in my wallet? And I can open carry, even without these permits in PA as long as I'm outside of the Philadelphia city limits. Correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, to recap, with my Utah permit, I'm good to go with concealed carry anywhere in PA whether I be in a car or on foot. Even in Philly. However, as far as PA is concerned, my FL license is just a worthless piece of plastic in my wallet? And I can open carry, even without these permits in PA as long as I'm outside of the Philadelphia city limits. Correct?

 

IMO, yes you are G2G with your Utah permit.

 

You can not carry inside of a vehicle without a permit. If you have a permit that PA accepts you can OC/CC inside of Philly. "There is however a law that requires a License To Carry Firearms to carry either way in "cities of the first class", which as defined by law is only the city of Philadelphia."

 

According to Mipafox, the FL license isn't worthless it still allows you to carry inside of your vehicle but you can't CC. Which is perfect because I have my FL permit and I prefer OC anyway.

 

*Is your avatar Yolandi?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JohnP is correct.

 

However, if you have to show your carry permit (which is unlikely except in a traffic stop), I would expect the average cop to yell out, "Florida!!! Ahh!!!" So I would expect the potential for inconvenience if that situation were to present itself.

 

I think 302W has a very good idea about keeping a copy of the Uniform Firearms Act in his truck with the pertinent section highlighted.

 

Similarly, I keep a copy of the FOPA and a copy of the AG web pages (reciprocity) for states I travel to beyond those in this region.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

IMO, yes you are G2G with your Utah permit.

 

If you have a permit that PA accepts you can OC/CC inside of Philly.

 

*Is your avatar Yolandi?

 

So I can open carry in Philly with FL or UT? I thought that was a no no. I thought you needed a PA LTC for open carry in Philly.

 

And yes, John, that is Yolandi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I can open carry in Philly with FL or UT?

 

Does PA accept a non-resident FL permit? No. So you can't carry at all in Philly with Florida. You can do whatever you want in Philly with Utah.

 

Did you read the thread? There was information in it.

 

I thought that was a no no. I thought you needed a PA LTC for open carry in Philly.

 

I'm not going to bother. It doesn't seem to do any good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Does PA accept a non-resident FL permit? No. So you can't carry at all in Philly with Florida. You can do whatever you want in Philly with Utah.

 

Did you read the thread? There was information in it.

 

 

 

I'm not going to bother. It doesn't seem to do any good.

 

I did read the thread. I was making sure I understood the thread.

 

As for me stating that I thought OC was a no no, that was rhetorical. I did need an answer to that. I was simply stating that I always thought it was a no go. No reply needed to that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



  • olight.jpg

    Use Promo Code "NJGF10" for 10% Off Regular Items

  • Supporting Vendors

  • Latest Topics

  • Posts

    • Here is what I found on the NJ legislation site from A1302...I see no mention of having to (proactively) send ammo info sales to Murphy, --- only on request: (key items from below: 1) The records shall be available for inspection at all reasonable times by any law enforcement officer....2) "Every dealer should shall establish a system"  ---To me this implies each have a system, doesn't sound like a central database in the heart of Murphy's NJ....3) "within 12 months of the effective date..." C.A. (IANAL)    e.     Records of sales.  Every manufacturer and wholesale dealer shall keep a detailed record of each firearm and all handgun ammunition sold by [him] the manufacturer and dealer.  The firearm record shall include the date of sale, the name and address of the purchaser, a description of each firearm and the firearm’s serial number [thereof].  The handgun ammunition record shall be in electronic form and shall contain the date of the transaction; the type, caliber, or gauge of the ammunition; the quantity of ammunition sold; the name and address of the purchaser; and any other information the superintendent shall deem necessary for the proper enforcement of this chapter.  The records shall be available for inspection at all reasonable times by any law enforcement officer.      Every manufacturer and wholesale dealer shall establish a system for maintaining electronic records pursuant to this subsection within 12 months of the effective date of P.L.    , c.   (C.        ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill). (cf: N.J.S.2C:58-1)
    • Holster, kneel, strong hand, support hand etc.. as per NJ In-Service HQC-1 qualification guidelines.. they even printed it out and gave copy to everyone. They also have them posted at the booths .  
    • Do they require you to shoot from the various positions/cover as well? Or just the listed distances?
    • I just spoke to a 2A lawyer a few mins ago asking explicitly about internet ammo buys vs A1302...The best I understood him is if the Ammo Dealer cards you FID/Drivers license AND keeps a retrievable database of your ammo buys you can still buy from them. I didn't "get" from him that they have to proactively send it to Murphy, but only needed to provide it on request. PLEASE Note, I know this is different than what some posted above who said the dealer would need to send it without being asked, so don't take what I am saying as gospel. We need to get more opinions on this one hopefully from 2A lawyers. From what I've seen most internet dealers do require fids/license and keep a history of our orders (which you can usually pull up in your account). I (obviously) DOUBT any of them send it to NJ proactively at this time - so lets hope that is not needed, some might say screw you folks in NJ buy your ammo elsewhere. The Lawyer also told me - and this is shocking to a degree - that last time they passed a bill about ammo in NJ, Murphy actually had agents placing ammo orders from NJ to test many internet dealers. If they were not compliant with the new law (at that time) they would be threatened with a CRIMINAL charge requiring them to come to NJ for trial (OR) they can pay an aprox. $86,000 fine AND rat-out the gun owners in NJ who placed real orders and accepted ammo who would then be placed on some Shit List in nics or something...If the ammo dealer did all this it becomes a civil charge...In essence we would be held responsible for the dealers non-compliance. WTF!!! This is mind boggling stuff! Go out and talk to a 2A lawyer to get more opinions (especially the proactive sending of orders to Murphy) and report back - Please. C.A.  
×
×
  • Create New...