Lalo 13 Posted March 23, 2013 So in my other thread we discussed the legality of the S&W 15-22P and determined that it was illegal. Since I'm still looking for something similar, I came across the HK 416 .22 LR Pistol. I began talking to the shop owner and he swears up and down that this pistol is NJ legal. A cop was there at the shop as well and he concurred as well (but what does he know, right?). Since this pistol is very similar to the S&W 15-22P and that was determined illegal in NJ by the masses here, I need your thoughts on this HK before I pick it up. What say you? Magazine capacity is 10 rounds btw. Specifications Caliber - .22 L.R. Capacity - 10 or 20 rds Mode of Fire - Semi-Auto Barrel Length - 8.5 in (216 mm) Barrel Twist - 1 in 13-3/4 in Rifling Grooves - 6 Rifling Length - 13.78 in (350 mm) Front Sight - Fixed - Removeable Post Rear Sight - Adjustable - Windage & Elevation Overall Length - 17.5 in (445 mm) Overall Height w/Mag - 11.4 in (290 mm) Overall Width - 3 in (75 mm) Stock Style - N/A Trigger Type - Single-stage Trigger Pull - 6.6-9.9 lbs Safety Type - Manual Principal of Operation - Blowback Muzzle Thread - M8x.75 Length of Pull - N/A Sight Radius - 10 in (255 mm) Diameter Rear Sight Aperture - .1 / .12 / 0.14 / 0.24 in Front Sight Width - .06 in (1.5 mm) Weight w/out Mag - 4.9 lbs (2200 g) Weight of empty Mag20 - 6.8 oz (190 g) Features - Upper and Lower Metal Receivers - RIS-Rail Interface System - On-Rail Sights Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KyLu II 0 Posted March 23, 2013 How much does it weight? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jruch87 6 Posted March 23, 2013 illegal, the barrel shroud(handguards) and magazine outside the grip are your two evil features Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lalo 13 Posted March 23, 2013 illegal, the barrel shroud(handguards) and magazine outside the grip are your two evil features His response to the handguard issue, "It's not a handguard, it's a rail". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted March 23, 2013 totally legal, but it needs to be in 556 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted March 23, 2013 It's not an arrest, it's a test case. It is a shroud - you know, the shoulder thing that goes up. Illegal. Adios, Pizza Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted March 23, 2013 It's not an arrest, it's a test case. It is a shroud - you know, the shoulder thing that goes up. Illegal. Adios, Pizza Bob This. Plus it's over 50oz (78.4oz) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted March 23, 2013 His response to the handguard issue, "It's not a handguard, it's a rail". NJ gives a partial definition of what they consider to be a shroud and it being a rail or not does not seem like it has any relevance.. (3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel andthat permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned; NOT legal imo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Qel Hoth 33 Posted March 23, 2013 His response to the handguard issue, "It's not a handguard, it's a rail". His point? It has a shroud that completely encircles the barrel allowing you to hold the firearm with the non trigger hand without being burned. It's a barrel shroud for the purposes of the law. Also is it under 50oz? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lalo 13 Posted March 23, 2013 It's more than 50 oz. I was just there talking to the guy again and I pointed out some of these items. I mentioned the weight, he said "its not a 223, it's a 22lr. Don't have to worry about that". I thought a pistol was a pistol, max weight of 50oz right? "not if its a .22". Ok, what about the shroud, can't have anything covering the barrel, he said the same thing again, ""its not a 223, it's a 22lr, I've had state police in here looking at this gun and they saw nothing illegal about it". So yeah, I think I'm going to stay away, even though there was a cop there before and he said it was fine. Who knows he could have been the owner's buddy or just clueless. NJ, your restarted laws defeat me yet again... "the shoulder thing that goes up" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntingCelt 1 Posted March 24, 2013 "No, I don't know what a barrel shroud is" In her legislation, but it's not important to know the details...... Didn't she also say the legislation included features from weapons that were used to kill police officers? There's little hope for 'common sense' gun laws in NJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Matrix 105 Posted March 24, 2013 Its very simply. If you do not feel comfortable about its legality, then don't buy it. Ten people will give you ten opinions, but at the end of the day, you are the owner. My advice...do not take anyone's advice on this forum as factual. It will not hold weight in court. Most folks, if not all, already know that. Good luck on your final decision! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted March 24, 2013 It's more than 50 oz. I was just there talking to the guy again and I pointed out some of these items. I mentioned the weight, he said "its not a 223, it's a 22lr. Don't have to worry about that". I thought a pistol was a pistol, max weight of 50oz right? "not if its a .22". Ok, what about the shroud, can't have anything covering the barrel, he said the same thing again, ""its not a 223, it's a 22lr, I've had state police in here looking at this gun and they saw nothing illegal about it". So yeah, I think I'm going to stay away, even though there was a cop there before and he said it was fine. Who knows he could have been the owner's buddy or just clueless. You can't really blame this one on the way the law is written. It is clarified in the NJAC and is pretty straightforward on what a disqualifying feature is. This gun clearly has three disqualifying features = shroud, weight, mag outside the grip. The guy behind the gun counter is an idiot and you should out him and/or the name of the LGS - he's going to get somebody jammed-up and I doubt he'll pay their attorney fees nor serve their time in jail. If you actually go back there again, ask him to show you in the law where it exempts rimfires - for that matter, make a little money and bet him he can't find it. Know the law yourself and be comfortable with what you're buying. Do not depend on the LGS to be your source on what is and isn't legal (PX90 exempted, of course). Adios, Pizza Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted March 24, 2013 Its very simply. If you do not feel comfortable about its legality, then don't buy it. Ten people will give you ten opinions, but at the end of the day, you are the owner. My advice...do not take anyone's advice on this forum as factual. It will not hold weight in court. Most folks, if not all, already know that. Good luck on your final decision! there are some parts of the law that are opinion... but some of it is VERY factual.. this is all factual.. the gun is not NJ legal.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Dog 19 Posted March 24, 2013 "No, I don't know what a barrel shroud is" In her legislation, but it's not important to know the details...... Didn't she also say the legislation included features from weapons that were used to kill police officers? There's little hope for 'common sense' gun laws in NJ It is so nice to go to a gun store and only worry about price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gunguy1960 2 Posted March 24, 2013 Weight, weight, weight. This stops almost every "cool" handgun from being legal in nj. Includes the vz58 pistol currently being made. One exception was a 223 pistol, ar type that weighed 46 ounces. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueLineFish 615 Posted March 24, 2013 Weight, weight, weight. This stops almost every "cool" handgun from being legal in nj. Includes the vz58 pistol currently being made. One exception was a 223 pistol, ar type that weighed 46 ounces.you mean the carbon 15 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted March 24, 2013 Weight, weight, weight. This stops almost every "cool" handgun from being legal in nj. Includes the vz58 pistol currently being made. One exception was a 223 pistol, ar type that weighed 46 ounces. Yes, but even those required running without a handguard (= shroud) to be legal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KpdPipes 388 Posted March 24, 2013 "No, I don't know what a barrel shroud is" In her legislation, but it's not important to know the details...... Didn't she also say the legislation included features from weapons that were used to kill police officers? There's little hope for 'common sense' gun laws in NJ You DO realize that Idiot or not, Carolyn McCarthy had pretty much NOTHING to do with NJ's law...right??? The Federal Ban came several Years after NJ's was already in place Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Qel Hoth 33 Posted March 24, 2013 You DO realize that Idiot or not, Carolyn McCarthy had pretty much NOTHING to do with NJ's law...right??? The Federal Ban came several Years after NJ's was already in place The ag's interpretation that er now use came in 96 though, correct? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites