In NJ can you hold an intruder at gunpoint until LE arrive?

[sammythebull 0]

I've often wondered what to do if you were to catch an intruder, tell him to "lie face down on the ground" until the police arrive. At this point, you're not completely sure if he's armed or not. The guy listens to you - at least initially. Now what? Keep pointing the gun at him? what happens if he says, "I'm going to get up and run out your door and you'll never see me again." then gets up . Once he gets up it's right back to the beginning of finding an intruder in your home. You don't know what he's going to do.

 

A good scenario is he runs away immediately. Then you don't have to worry about this. But can you detain an intruder in NJ?

[bhunted 887]

This question was just asked recently... Do a search... Plenty of dialog...

 

 

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[Howard 538]

Probably the best bet is to just shoot him a dozen times and make sure he is dead - then there is only one side to the story

[kahout 0]

I'm striking out with a keyword search. If someone finds the conversation please provide the link.

[Kimber45 3]

If your serious about engaging an intruder in your home I would advise you to get some type of restraints eather a set of handcuff or maybe some zip ties. If you want more details. Pm me. Just remember that when patrol gets on scene put the gun down and follow there commands. They will probably have you prone out too. Also tell dispatch that

You are armed and give them a really good description of what you look like and what you are wearing. You don't want to be misidentified by the police. Hope this helps.

Disclaimer. This info is not training but just a what would I do in a possible situation.

[bhunted 887]

Here's a clue to this crazy search engine in the forum. Put what you want in quotes. It will search for the exact words. So don't spell anything wrong...

 

 

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[bhunted 887]

You must be a student of the Joe Biden University...

 

Probably the best bet is to just shoot him a dozen times and make sure he is dead - then there is only one side to the story

 

 

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Typos courtesy Apple...

[wooly bugger 1]

If your serious about engaging an intruder in your home I would advise you to get some type of restraints eather a set of handcuff or maybe some zip ties. If you want more details. Pm me. Just remember that when patrol gets on scene put the gun down and follow there commands. They will probably have you prone out too. Also tell dispatch that

You are armed and give them a really good description of what you look like and what you are wearing. You don't want to be misidentified by the police. Hope this helps.

Disclaimer. This info is not training but just a what would I do in a possible situation.

Is there a way to zip tie a perp safely by yourself?

[BarkNBite 15]

If you have a Home encounter and want to prosecute and sign a complaint...........why not.

[Wile E Coyote 0]

Here's the relevant statute:

 

N.J.S.A. 2C:3-4

 

a. Use of force justifiable for protection of the person. Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 2C:3-9, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion.

 

b. Limitations on justifying necessity for use of force.

 

(1) The use of force is not justifiable under this section:

 

(a) To resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a peace officer in the performance of his duties, although the arrest is unlawful, unless the peace officer employs unlawful force to effect such arrest; or

 

(b) To resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:

 

(i) The actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest;

 

(ii) The actor has been unlawfully dispossessed of the property and is making a reentry or recaption justified by section 2C:3-6; or

 

(iii) The actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm.

 

(2) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm; nor is it justifiable if:

 

(a) The actor, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or

 

(b) The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

 

(i) The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor ; and

 

(ii) A public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform such duty, effect such arrest or prevent such escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom such action is directed.

 

(3) Except as required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

 

c. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:3-5, N.J.S.2C:3-9, or this section, the use of force or deadly force upon or toward an intruder who is unlawfully in a dwelling is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself or other persons in the dwelling against the use of unlawful force by the intruder on the present occasion.

 

(2) A reasonable belief exists when the actor, to protect himself or a third person, was in his own dwelling at the time of the offense or was privileged to be thereon and the encounter between the actor and intruder was sudden and unexpected, compelling the actor to act instantly and:

 

(a) The actor reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the actor or others in the dwelling; or

 

(b) The actor demanded that the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw, and the intruder refused to do so.

 

(3) An actor employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, withdrawing or doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

 

Read the whole thing, but take special note of the bold text. Without being a legal professional, I think the general consensus is that drawing down on an intruder with a firearm and telling them to prone out is completely lawful. If they try to run back out the door and you shoot them, you'd have a tough time coming up with an acceptable explanation to the prosecutor/judge/jury on why you employed deadly force on a retreating perpetrator.

[Wile E Coyote 0]

Also, dug up one of the old deadly force discussions: http://njgunforums.c...__fromsearch__1

[Underdog 1,593]

Probably the best thing to do would be to stay away from him and have him lay on the floor with his legs and arms spread and his hands visible at all times. I would have him do this and look away from me so that he could not see what I was doing. I would then get 911 on speaker phone and tell him that if he moves suddenly, aggressively, etc. that I would consider that a threat and take action. Then I would wait for the police. Describe what I was wearing, where I was, and indicate how the police could get in the house, as i would not leave the intruder unattended. I would also be worried that he was not alone.

[Howard 538]

The thing is that unless you are a LEO if you hold him you may be charged with an illegal arrest or even kidnapping - stupid laws. That is why the best thing is probably empty the magazine into him. As the cops in NY told my dad in the 1970's - feel free to have a gun in your house and shoot anyone BUT before you call us be sure to a) drag him inside of the house if you shot him outside, and B) if he turns out to be unarmed place a kitchen knife in his dead hands before we get there.

[bhunted 887]

The gun community is in serious trouble...

[Adam 6]

What... the....

[Kimber45 3]

REALLY!!!! Lets be smart people. Empty a mag in them drag them into your dwelling and put a kitchen knife in there hands.....WTF.. And about the zip ties. It was a general objective answer. As always these are dynamic situations in which the totality of the situation dictates what you do and how you would respond. Its hard to explain between what a non trained civilian would do compared to what a trained individual would do.

[tommy3rd 132]

don't call 911. cut him up in the basement. no one will ever find him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i've been watching too much tv. lol

[BarkNBite 15]

Howard.........I believe that's called murder....no thanks.

[Blacksmythe 71]

WOW!

[robot_hell 72]

Not enough facepalm smileys in the world for this one

[smoe_picka 0]

Why would you want to wait for the cops if they broke into your house in an attempt to rob, rape, kill or make a sandwich ? If you did such a thing as hold him would you be angry if he was out on bail or released early within 3 years? I have small children and I see it as soon as they cross the threshold they are an immediate threat to my family and home.

[MikeK77 8]

The thing is that unless you are a LEO if you hold him you may be charged with an illegal arrest or even kidnapping

 

That's not true. You can cuff someone for your safety. It's called "detaining a subject", not arresting. Security and rent-a-cops do it all the time.

[BlueLineFish 615]

The complete fail of this thread is mindblowing

[Howard 538]

That's not true. You can cuff someone for your safety. It's called "detaining a subject", not arresting. Security and rent-a-cops do it all the time.

 

Maybe, I guess that would be for the lawyers to figure out after the fact. In any case, how are you suggesting you do this? Just go up to him and say "hey nice Mr. bad guy would you put these cuffs on"? What if he says no? Now what are you going to do, put your gun down and go up to him? Might work if you had some training, but I hear it is not as easy to do as seen on TV or in the movies. You choice is most likely to get him to leave or shoot him, as I don't think he is going to let you cuff him even if you had cuffs.

 

As for shooting him, I was not suggesting you empty the mag into him, just relaying info that was given by the police.

 

The entire problem is unless you have a lot of training, you are likely going to have a split second to decide what you are going to do. This is why I am now digging a mote around my property and filling it with Crocks

[Tack Tickle 0]

This is one crazy thread, haha.

 

I wouldn't go handcuffing someone unless you had backup. You get some cracked out whack job on drugs and he's gonna put up one hell of a fight. Last thing you want is a struggle while trying to secure your firearm.

[va_bank 0]

According to NJ laws, if you find an intruder in your house it would be easier to just kill yourself.

[223lover 9]

Handcuffs. Any person who knowingly has in his possession handcuffs as defined in P.L.1991, c. 437 (C.2C:39-9.2), under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as handcuffs may have, is guilty of a disorderly persons offense. A law enforcement officer shall confiscate handcuffs possessed in violation of the law.

[Howard 538]

Handcuffs. Any person who knowingly has in his possession handcuffs as defined in P.L.1991, c. 437 (C.2C:39-9.2), under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as handcuffs may have, is guilty of a disorderly persons offense. A law enforcement officer shall confiscate handcuffs possessed in violation of the law.

 

This is getting complicated. So, I hear people saying we should cuff the bad guy, now we are being told it is not legal for us to have cuffs. Would it be appropriate if I used the ones that had fur on them?

 

Got to love our government that makes life such a joy for us honest folks -- not!

[JohnnyB 4,325]

According to NJ laws, if you find an intruder in your house it would be easier to just kill yourself.

 

Sad but true! Governor Christie are you listening??? Do you care about the law abiding citizens who are leaving this state in droves due

to it's ignorance and undermining of our God and Forefather given 2nd amendment rights in the Constitution of the United States of America???

You alone can make a change. Defend the very Constitution you swore to defend upon taking office, and include the Second Amendment!

 

I don't know what your future political aspirations are, but I for one will cast any future vote for you based on how well you upheld my 2nd amendment rights

here and now in New Jersey! This state, as well as the entire nation is watching. The future of this state and your political future is waiting for an answer! What say ye?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

According to NJ laws, if you find an intruder in your house it would be easier to just kill yourself.

 

This is probably the most useful answer in this entire thread.