when does the nics process start

[awynne56 0]

Hi all new to the foums and I was wonder if I'm recieving a gun. Ffl to ffl. Can the nics be started before the gun arrives

Thanks

Andy

[aguilar64 9]

I believe the dealers has to put it in his book (sign for it) before anything can start.

[PK90 3,570]

Hi all new to the foums and I was wonder if I'm recieving a gun. Ffl to ffl. Can the nics be started before the gun arrives

Thanks

Andy

 

Maybe. It is up to the dealer.

[savageshooter 10]

Theoretically, yes. Need serial number, make, model etc. to start the process.

[nuclearheli 40]

Theoretically, yes. Need serial number, make, model etc. to start the process.

 

Actually you don't need that information for NICS. The only thing on the NICS submission form related to the firearm is if it is a handgun or a long gun. In accordance with the CFR enacted to comply with the Brady Act you can submit a NICS check Immediately following the completion of the 4473 Part A. That is the general section the purchaser fills in. I routinely file NICS in advance of the firearm. Once the client provides me with the tracking number for the firearm I submit NICS providing they compled Section A of the 4473.

 

[aguilar64 9]

But the dates of the sale and when the gun came in won't match, wouldn't that be a red flag on a inspection? I meant that you sold something that you didn't have in your possession.

[nuclearheli 40]

You are confusing NICS with the process of purchasing a firearm. While the two are connected they are different animals. It's not hard to be confused these days because this was never an issue. NICS use to take 5 minutes so it was always done along with the process of buying a firearm. But times are different now. Try this, think of NICS as the same thing as your handgun permits. In NJ you apply for a handgun permit in advance of your purchase, or most people do. And you apply for more than one at the same time (I did 4 last time). That in itself doesn't raise any issues with the SP. NICS is only different in one respect, your NICS approval, providing you get one, is valid for 30 days for a specific purchase, not the 90(+90) for a handgun permit. None of this is the actual purchase transaction.

 

What do you need to purchase a handgun in NJ:

 

1. Valid Pistol Permit (Valid 90 Days + 90 Extension)

2. Valid FID card (Currently no expiration)

3. Valid NJ Drivers License and be of age, 21 years or older (5 year expiration)

4. Approved background check (NICS valid for 30 days from the day INITIATED)

5. Completed ATF form 4473

6. 30 Day elapsed time between your last handgun purchase exclusive of the day you took possession of the handgun (Effectively 31 days)

7. Any other purchase document your FFL or retail dealer might require. (Signed 30 Day Statement for example)

 

What can you do before hand

 

1. Get your pistol permits

2. Purchase a firearm (NOT TAKE POSSESSION)

3. Partially complete your ATF form 4473 (Part A)

4. Get your NICS Check, must be within 30 days of actual firearm transfer.

 

When can you take possession of the firearm (Legally transferred from your FFL to you)

 

1. Any time within the time limit of your pistol permits or their extension date.

2. When your NICS Check comes back approved AND within 30 days from the initiation of the NICS check.

3. When you have completed, SIGNED AND DATED your ATF Form 4473

4. When your FFL completes your pistol permit and you have SIGNED and it is DATED.

5. When you have fully paid for the fees involved.

6. When you sign any other required documents that the particular FFL or retail dealer requires. As an example, I make my clients sign a form that swears that you have not purchased a handgun inside of the 30 day window, and you also swear again and sign that you are purchasing the firearm for YOU. I also check your iD one more time.

 

When is the actual date of purchase and transfer of the firearm.

 

1. The date that the FFL records into his bound book for the disposition of the firearm and it being removed from his inventory.

2. The date recorded on the pistol permit which the white copy is the SP record of the purchase. The white dated copy is the copy used by the State Police to determine the date that the firearm was transferred, (a.k.a., purchased)

3. The date recorded on the 4473, the date in which you signed the 4473.

4. (In My Case) the date of your transaction receipt with my company.

5. Some time 31 days after your last purchase.

 

The kicker, dates 1, 2 and 3 above must match and you MUST be outside of the 30 day limit or you WILL be answering questions from the State Police or the ATF

 

The process for a long gun or receiver is not as complicated but with respect to NICS it's again the same. The difference is the permit, not required however a "Certificate of Eligibility is required, and there is no 30 day limit. One day hopefully soon all this craziness over NICS will go away when it won't be necessary to do your NICS in advance of your purchase because as the law was written, the N(I)CS process will be (I)NSTANT again

[PK90 3,570]

Excellent explanation. You beat me to it. I typed the following. Hope it adds to clarify.

 

 

 

The only dates that matter in NJ, are the dates on a permit when the person acquires a handgun, and the date the NICS check is done. If acquiring a long gun, the dates do not matter. Federally, there might be up to FIVE dates on the form 4473. The NICS transmission date has to be on or after the date the customer certifies the form. The disposition date has to be the certification date (no longer the case in NJ) or the re-certification date. The 4th date could be another date referring to a delayed/pending disposition. The 5th date could be a recall date for a denial.

 

Extreme Example: Customer walks in a gun shop and wants to buy a handgun that the dealer does not have, but can get. He gives the dealer some money to get the gun. The dealer gives the customer a receipt dated 4/1/13. The customer had used his last permit on 3/4/13, but has more waiting for him at his PD. He then leaves. On 4/2/13, the dealer orders the handgun. The customer picks up his permit from his PD on 4/3/13. The permit was issued on 3/29/13. He goes back to the gun shop on 4/4/13, fills out the form 4473, signs it certifying the answers, and gives the dealer some more money. Another receipt for the extra payment is given to the customer on this date. The dealer faxes in the check to the NJ NICS on 4/5/13. The handgun arrives to the dealer on 4/6/13. The dealer logs it into his A&D book on 4/8/13. The NJ NICS does the check on 4/9/13, independent of any other dates. They then call the dealer on 4/10/13 with a pending response for this customer. This date need not be recorded. A transaction number number of 2013-09900025 is provided. On 4/11/13, the dealer calls the customer and tells him that he is pending. On 4/12/13, the NJ NICS calls back with an approval. The dealer calls the customer on 4/13/13 to advise him of the approval. On 4/15/13, the customer picks up his handgun and re-certifies the form 4473. This date is put on the permit as the date of acquisition. The dealer also records this date on the form 4473 and his A&D book as a disposition date. On 4/22/13, the NJ NICS calls the dealer and tells him the customer is denied (rarely happens). That date is recorded. No further action is required of the dealer. A new NICS check can be submitted on or after 5/16/13.

[aguilar64 9]

Thanks for the explanation.

[awynne56 0]

 

Why is my ffl tell me that they cant start my nics until they recieve the gun?

[PK90 3,570]

Dealer's choice.

[brocglock23 4]

Dealer's choice.

So I just got 3 permits, wanna run my NICS now and i'll catch up with ya later??? :unknw:

[nuclearheli 40]

So I just got 3 permits, wanna run my NICS now and i'll catch up with ya later??? :unknw:

 

It may sound like a joke but all we are doing is following the laws and trying to do what we can to help out during these challenging times. Like PK90 I strictly follow the law but I also adjust my procedures to try to help out my customers. Your suggestion however is not as big a fantasy as you think. As I tried to explain NICS is very much like your permit, it has a life span provided by the law. While I wouldn't run a NICS check if you "might" buy a firearm, I would start your NICS based on confirmation that a firearm is being delivered to me for you. Just trying to help.

[brocglock23 4]

It may sound like a joke but all we are doing is following the laws and trying to do what we can to help out during these challenging times. Like PK90 I strictly follow the law but I also adjust my procedures to try to help out my customers. Your suggestion however is not as big a fantasy as you think. As I tried to explain NICS is very much like your permit, it has a life span provided by the law. While I wouldn't run a NICS check if you "might" buy a firearm, I would start your NICS based on confirmation that a firearm is being delivered to me for you. Just trying to help.

It was definitely a joke but that is good to know and glad to have another vocal vendor on here even though I have no clue off the top of my head where Cream Ridge, NJ is.

EDIT: I FOUND IT, not that far actually.

[PK90 3,570]

EDIT: I FOUND IT, not that far actually.

 

It is very far.

[brocglock23 4]

It is very far.

Not near by any means but not too far considering I've sometimes have to travel as far as Cedar Knolls for work. I guess I'm just use to far travels.

[awynne56 0]

Thanks guys for the explanation and info. NJ. Sure has a lot rules. Pk90 where you located I got one permit left. Where is sjsc located