Gov Christie's Violence Task Force Report is HERE

[PDM 91]

Not signed by the governor = Bill passes.

 

 

Yeah, I know that. I meant to write "veto." I disagree with you. I think there is a greater than 50% chance that he will veto a new mag limit bill. I don't think Christie is "anti-gun." Cuomo, Bloomberg, Corzine, all "anti-gun." Christie = don't really care that much about gun issues, will do what is politically expedient within limits, certainly won't go out on a limb (which would be scary for a guy that big) to liberalize any gun law, but may fall back on common sense when a proposed gun bill is patently unfair and useless. My 2 cents.

[410guy 5]

I don't understand how you guys think its not so bad. It's horrible. FID renewals...need I say more. I would have gladly taken a 10 round magazine limit over FID renewals. Under the current system we have to wait at least 2-3 months or more to get an FID or P2P, or change address, etc. Imagine the delays if the already overburdened system is overwhelmed with renewals on top of initial apps.

 

Either the process is now going to take YEARS instead of months, or the state is going to have to increase the workforce behind processing apps. Guess who is going to have to pay for this increase in personel? Us...the applicants, in the form of increased fees.

 

I was NOT expecting to see the FID renewal as a recommendation. If this becomes law I am outta NJ. I'd rather live in NY at this point.

 

 

[bhunted 887]

I don't see the frustration here. I just read every page. I was very happy to see it wasn't 95 pages of gun negativity. They actually took the time to research the things that were important. Furthermore, if you look at the whole picture, the majority of it did not include ways to make us miserable. It redirected focus on the real problems.

 

If you feel that we were done a super bad injustice, I believe you are a believer that no matter what is set forth is wrong and you will never be satisfied.

 

I actually came away after reading this with a big sigh of relief because I did think it would have been a slaughter. AND IT WASN'T!!!

 

All this still has to go past CC.

 

 

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[Maksim 1,504]

Yeah, I know that. I meant to write "veto." I disagree with you. I think there is a greater than 50% chance that he will veto a new mag limit bill. I don't think Christie is "anti-gun." Cuomo, Bloomberg, Corzine, all "anti-gun." Christie = don't really care that much about gun issues, will do what is politically expedient within limits, certainly won't go out on a limb (which would be scary for a guy that big) to liberalize any gun law, but may fall back on common sense when a proposed gun bill is patently unfair and useless. My 2 cents.

 

Every politician and anyone in the "industry" that I have spoke to, all feel the same way, Chris Christie is not a fan of gun rights. His first evidence is the two anti gun AG's he appoints.

 

Then you have his remarks on Hannity about our AWESOME gun laws. His stance on CCW. And of course....

 

[springfieldxds 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong which I probably am but did they recommend an fid card with scanning capabilities that is directly linked to njsp to get rid of our paper trail system ie p2p, because if so I'm OK with a fid card with scanning capabilities and a picture if it gets rid of pistol permits

[bhunted 887]

Dare I say over-reactting? IF this ends up part of the new ways of life, they will have to have a lot of modernization done to the current system. I really believe it may streamline the system and make it faster.

 

I don't understand how you guys think its not so bad. It's horrible. FID renewals...need I say more. I would have gladly taken a 10 round magazine limit over FID renewals. Under the current system we have to wait at least 2-3 months or more to get an FID or P2P, or change address, etc. Imagine the delays if the already overburdened system is overwhelmed with renewals on top of initial apps.

 

Either the process is now going to take YEARS instead of months, or the state is going to have to increase the workforce behind processing apps. Guess who is going to have to pay for this increase in personel? Us...the applicants, in the form of increased fees.

 

I was NOT expecting to see the FID renewal as a recommendation. If this becomes law I am outta NJ. I'd rather live in NY at this point.

 

 

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[Bob2222 317]

If this becomes law I am outta NJ. I'd rather live in NY at this point.

 

Why did you say New York and not Pennsylvania?

 

You can legally own a machine gun in Pennsylvania. (And you could still walk to work in the NJ capital!) Except for Philadelphia and Pittsburgh it's almost as good as any state when it comes to the 2A.

[JDemented 0]

The thing that stuck out most to me is that they are the first Ive seen to point out "Urban Gun Violence instead of trying to sell the "Any gun violence is a reflection on honest gun owners" ticket. Other then that I could do without the whole renewal process but hope our state takes this read serious and follows ...some of it.

[Maksim 1,504]

Dare I say over-reactting? IF this ends up part of the new ways of life, they will have to have a lot of modernization done to the current system. I really believe it may streamline the system and make it faster.

 

 

 

 

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the issue is "if if if if if"

 

The current NICS check is taking 10 days. How long does it take in some towns to do a simple pistol permit? or a new FID?

 

Now add in ALL of the new renewals that will have to be done.

 

You have too much faith in the system (which btw is completely ANTI GUN), not to think we will be better off with new FID system.... until there is a solid plan to fix the current FID problems, I am not willing to give an inch to add on more layers of crap.

 

My town currently is only avail once a week on a Tuesday for 2 to 3 hours to do FID's/Permits, etc. He is overwhelmed as it is. Adding all of the new renewals on will only slow it down even further.

 

Glass half full? Heh.... when less than 15% of the population owns guns, and the entire state government is anti gun.... Does anyone ACTUALLY think they want to make owning guns easier?

[Maksim 1,504]

The thing that stuck out most to me is that they are the first Ive seen to point out "Urban Gun Violence instead of trying to sell the "Any gun violence is a reflection on honest gun owners" ticket. Other then that I could do without the whole renewal process but hope our state takes this read serious and follows ...some of it.

 

Lets keep in mind, the report is as rosey as it is... because it's sole purpose was to focus on urban violence and mental health.... it was not to focus on gun control, or gun laws in general.

 

Governor Christie charged the NJ SAFE Task Force with reviewing “the root causes of mass violence and developing recommendations aimed at ameliorating those root causes in order to keep New Jersey residents, including students at educational facilities, safe from gun violence.” The Task Force was specifically directed “to consider and explore the role that addiction, mental health, gun control laws, responsible gun ownership, and school safety measures play in ensuring the safety of New Jersey residents.”

 

and

 

It is important to note that our recommendations on gun control matters are not intended to be exhaustive. The fact that we have not commented on a specific subject that might be addressed in legislation or by an Executive Branch enforcement initiative should not be construed to mean that the idea is without merit or is too trivial to warrant discussion. Rather, given the scope of our mission as set forth in Executive Order 124, we have not tried to catalog every conceivable legislative initiative or enforcement program. We leave that task to the Governor‟s Chief Counsel and the Attorney General, who regularly advise the Governor on the substance and constitutionality of legislative matters. Similarly, we leave it to the Office of Legislative Services, Governor‟s Counsel, the Attorney General, and others to work out the details and to draft actual legislative text to accomplish any of our recommendations that are found to have merit.

[ChrisJM981 924]

Swipe your card, transmits to NICS, it comes back, I pay and walk out the door. Have a nice day. :unknw:

[forayzor 1]

Are you guys sure that you're reading the same report that I just did. I think that, given what is going on in other states around the country, and given NJ's already demonstrated propensity for ridiculous gun control hoops for us to jump through, we fared pretty well. I'd also remind folks that these are just findings and opinions that Christie will use when evaluating bills passed by the legislature. In that context - given the total inanity of all of those bills - this report will actually help us. It is a political escape hatch for Christie and the recommendations in the report address many of the shortcomings of the bills already introduced and passed by the assembly. For example - the inclusion of due process for any mental health firearm confiscations.

 

Maybe I'm a glass half full kind of guy, but this is far, far better than I expected. Please don't misinterpret my comments to think that I endorse this whole dog & pony show, but considering where we live and the strictures placed on us already, this could have been a lot worse - one only need to look next door for evidence of that.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Well said Bob, my thoughts exactly.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

You have too much faith in the system (which btw is completely ANTI GUN), not to think we will be better off with new FID system.... until there is a solid plan to fix the current FID problems, I am not willing to give an inch to add on more layers of crap.

 

+1

[bhunted 887]

I'm not saying it will make it easier, at least not up front. They will have to make it easy for both parties. I also don't have faith in the system per say and neither do I trust politicians. Anyone that knows me, knows that.

 

But in technology I do. It will take them quite some time to mobilize systems to do this. Won't come over night. If there is/will ever be an easier way for us to have a smoother permit system, this may be it. If they do implement a renewal system, (which incidentally, I do not want), they will have to give the local govt., a streamline way, train personnel, and the equipment to do it. They can't just drop it in their laps. They are talking mag strips or similar to be also available on these cards. Do you really think the nice old lady that handles permits OR the chief want to take on this endeavor alone? It's not going to be just use the same crap paper they use to type the info on and an inked fingerprint and slap a photo on...

 

 

the issue is "if if if if if"

 

The current NICS check is taking 10 days. How long does it take in some towns to do a simple pistol permit? or a new FID?

 

Now add in ALL of the new renewals that will have to be done.

 

You have too much faith in the system (which btw is completely ANTI GUN), not to think we will be better off with new FID system.... until there is a solid plan to fix the current FID problems, I am not willing to give an inch to add on more layers of crap.

 

My town currently is only avail once a week on a Tuesday for 2 to 3 hours to do FID's/Permits, etc. He is overwhelmed as it is. Adding all of the new renewals on will only slow it down even further.

 

Glass half full? Heh.... when less than 15% of the population owns guns, and the entire state government is anti gun.... Does anyone ACTUALLY think they want to make owning guns easier?

 

 

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[bhunted 887]

I agree...

 

Are you guys sure that you're reading the same report that I just did. I think that, given what is going on in other states around the country, and given NJ's already demonstrated propensity for ridiculous gun control hoops for us to jump through, we fared pretty well. I'd also remind folks that these are just findings and opinions that Christie will use when evaluating bills passed by the legislature. In that context - given the total inanity of all of those bills - this report will actually help us. It is a political escape hatch for Christie and the recommendations in the report address many of the shortcomings of the bills already introduced and passed by the assembly. For example - the inclusion of due process for any mental health firearm confiscations.

 

Maybe I'm a glass half full kind of guy, but this is far, far better than I expected. Please don't misinterpret my comments to think that I endorse this whole dog & pony show, but considering where we live and the strictures placed on us already, this could have been a lot worse - one only need to look next door for evidence of that.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

 

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[1LtCAP 4,263]

PERHAPS a counter recomendation could be to loosen up our guns laws to modern day good state standards, along with becoming "shall issue" concerning carry. do it as an experiment for 3 years. if in 3 years, violent crime hasn't dropped, then they can have what they're proposing.

 

a letter with stats from states that've enacted the easier carry laws would be fairly convincing.

 

if one life can be saved, we have to try.

[bhunted 887]

That's exactly what I would hope for..

 

Swipe your card, transmits to NICS, it comes back, I pay and walk out the door. Have a nice day. :unknw:

 

 

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[Maksim 1,504]

I'm not saying it will make it easier, at least not up front. They will have to make it easy for both parties. I also don't have faith in the system per say and neither do I trust politicians. Anyone that knows me, knows that.

 

But in technology I do. It will take them quite some time to mobilize systems to do this. Won't come over night. If there is/will ever be an easier way for us to have a smoother permit system, this may be it. If they do implement a renewal system, (which incidentally, I do not want), they will have to give the local govt., a streamline way, train personnel, and the equipment to do it. They can't just drop it in their laps. They are talking mag strips or similar to be also available on these cards. Do you really think the nice old lady that handles permits OR the chief want to take on this endeavor alone? It's not going to be just use the same crap paper they use to type the info on and an inked fingerprint and slap a photo on...

 

 

 

 

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Correct, and until that happens... I do not want ANY MORE gun laws.

 

When was the last time ANY gun law passed in NJ that made it easier for legal, law abiding gun owners to purchase a gun?

 

We already have an easy way and all the technology. For starters, our Drivers License. it has a strip. I am sure they can backend all of the nics data to it.

 

But there is no need for anything else... such as additional renewals for our existing FID's.... until they come up with something better.

[bhunted 887]

Nooo, nooo, nooo... Bad idea. If they issue, do so with no experiments. All they need is a small rash of bad numbers, then you lose everything.

 

PERHAPS a counter recomendation could be to loosen up our guns laws to modern day good state standards, along with becoming "shall issue" concerning carry. do it as an experiment for 3 years. if in 3 years, violent crime hasn't dropped, then they can have what they're proposing.

 

a letter with stats from states that've enacted the easier carry laws would be fairly convincing.

 

if one life can be saved, we have to try.

 

 

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[axeman_g 128]

I am shocked at the level headedness of this report. Shocked.

 

it is not GREAT... but it is a helluva lot better then expected in my opinion.

 

A few erroneuous sections.... but nothing that makes me pack the uhaul this weekend.

[410guy 5]

 

 

Why did you say New York and not Pennsylvania?

 

You can legally own a machine gun in Pennsylvania. (And you could still walk to work in the NJ capital!) Except for Philadelphia and Pittsburgh it's almost as good as any state when it comes to the 2A.

 

Of course I'd rather live in PA. But I'd honestly take NY over NJ at this point, even with their stupid SAFE act and pistol permit system. At least I could own my manually operated long guns in peace without having an "ID card".

[bhunted 887]

I don't think you can have one without the other.

In another thread talking about stamping "I'm a gun owner" on your DL seemed like a bad idea to people. Now you want to put all your eggs in one basket?

Swipe your license because you did something possibly wrong that may end up not being? Now you lose your guns, (even if temporarily), now you lose your license too. Now you can't drive.

 

I'm merely saying technology may streamline things for us. I'm not even sure I consider that bad or just moving into better technology. Ya got to admit, that piece of crap paper they put it on and expect it to survive forever seems dumb. No, I don't want to renew anything. At least not ever 2-5 years... Maybe 10 or 20...

As long as they can make it painless for everyone and don't use it against us, don't place any more dumb laws on us or take away our guns, I can live with it.

 

 

 

 

Correct, and until that happens... I do not want ANY MORE gun laws.

 

When was the last time ANY gun law passed in NJ that made it easier for legal, law abiding gun owners to purchase a gun?

 

We already have an easy way and all the technology. For starters, our Drivers License. it has a strip. I am sure they can backend all of the nics data to it.

 

But there is no need for anything else... such as additional renewals for our existing FID's.... until they come up with something better.

 

 

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[raz-0 1,259]

There is a bright side to forcing renewals with a cost to the permit holder. Currently, if you want to have an argument about constitutionality in the courts, you have trouble forming a class or finding an individual without them already breaking the law. New law that affects all of us means one can attempt to form a class and challenge the constitutionality.

[wooly bugger 1]

I speed read it, literally with heart racing, a couple of hours ago. Overall, surprisingly well reasoned and non-hysterical. I was very relieved to see that there was no recommendation to ban online ammo sales. The one huge disappointment was the support for FID renewals. This could be as simple as sending the PD a check for $25 every five years and waiting for the newly revamped background check to come back in a couple of weeks, or it could be as bad as what we're seeing in Essex County, times 100.

 

I understand the rationale to make sure that someone didn't get disqualified since being granted the card in 1959, but with all of the modernization of the FIDs they're recommending; swipe bars, bar codes, etc., and all of the somewhat ominous database sharing, couldn't the have a database of disqualified people updated in real time, and if a new addition matches with an FID holder, do some investigation? It's almost like, instead of this potential fiasco, they could have an instant check system. And it could be nationwide. Oh, wait....

 

I'm hoping that when the NJSP has a chance to weigh in, they'll realize what a tremendous burden this will create and recommend against it, or at least recommend that the constant renewal requirement be postponed until they have a modernized system.

 

In the next few days, Christie and every senator is going to get a letter from me on the FID renewal issue. RIght now, this is my absolute top priority.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

Nooo, nooo, nooo... Bad idea. If they issue, do so with no experiments. All they need is a small rash of bad numbers, then you lose everything.

 

 

 

 

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i say "as an experiment", because really, that is the only way we have a chance of seeing that happen. even with a small spate of crazieness, there will be no denying the significant lowering of violent crime, and that afterall is the goal here.

[Bob B 103]

No change to the FID unless it is accompanied by an iron clad 30 day (or less) rule and an appeals process for denials that is open to everyone, not just those who can afford an attorney. That means a provision that awards attorneys fees and court costs if the denial is overturned. If they can't agree to that, then we will be faced with the same delays - not acceptable. If they can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on gun buy-backs, surely they can spend the same on modernizing the permit process.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

No change to the FID unless it is accompanied by an iron clad 30 day (or less) rule and an appeals process for denials that is open to everyone, not just those who can afford an attorney. That means a provision that awards attorneys fees and court costs if the denial is overturned. If they can't agree to that, then we will be faced with the same delays - not acceptable. If they can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on gun buy-backs, surely they can spend the same on modernizing the permit process.

 

exfukkingactly.....

[ryan_j 0]

I'll support a Photo ID and renewal when NJ becomes a SHALL ISSUE state.

 

NJ is a "shall issue" state. It's a "shall issue" state for Firearm Purchaser ID cards.

[ryan_j 0]

The big nail in coffin is how they felt about CCW.... let me find the snippet.

 

 

"

New Jersey law imposes significant restrictions on when a person may obtain a permit to carry a handgun based upon a “justifiable need.” See N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4. Regulations define justifiable need to mean “urgent necessity for self-protection, as evidenced by specific threats or previous attacks which demonstrate a special danger to the applicant‟s life that cannot be avoided by means other than by issuance of a permit to carry a handgun.” See N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.4(d). These “carry” permits must be approved by a Superior Court Judge and are issued only when the court finds an urgent necessity for self-protection that entails more than a generalized fear for personal safety or the need to protect property alone. See In re Preis, 118 N.J. 564 (1990)."

 

I don't see an opinion about CCW, only a statement of fact. In fact it almost seems like they copied and pasted this from Wikipedia and changed up a few words.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Jersey#Permits_to_Carry_and_Transport

 

Also:

 

"urgent necessity for self-protection, as evidenced by specific threats or previous attacks which demonstrate a special danger to the applicant‟s life that cannot be avoided by means other than by issuance of a permit to carry a handgun." is what Nappen refers to as "judge made law" via a series of anti-gun decisions handed down from the superior court.

[410guy 5]

Some of you guys are naive if you think the state is going to modernize the system to make it easier for us. If anything it will likely be in order to make a database of all gun owners and all gun purchases in the state....NOT to make our Iives easier. It's blatantly obvious they do not care about us. People have challanged the state for violating the 30 day law and the courts rule in favor of the state. I am one of lucky people who lives in Essex county who has been waiting 6 months for pistol permits, and some have been waiting even longer. I don't see the state's "too bad, tough shit" attitude toward gun owners changing just because the FID is getting a facelift.

 

Also...where is the state going to get the money to equip every town PD and state police barracks with a photo ID maker?

 

Wooly Bugger is right...instead of being complacent and accepting the report as "not so bad" we should be writing another round of letters to Christie and the senate on how we disagree with the report's stance on FID renewals/photo ID. Christie is a fiscal conservative so he might see sense about what that would cost the state and gun owners.