OchoBlue 3 Posted July 2, 2014 Look carefully. That part is in [brackets] which appears to be designating the parts that are to be "stricken" from the current statute. The underlined words are the replacement language. Thanks for explaining that! You made my day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tmpnj 0 Posted July 2, 2014 So how long will it take for this to wind its way through? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted July 2, 2014 Made it easier for you: If passed, the law will look like this: (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to: (11) Any nonresident who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license to carry a concealed firearm for any purpose which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state, regardless of the state of residence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NEAHS 11 Posted July 2, 2014 Here is a copy of what PA Rep. Saccone who introduced the new legislation sent to the other PA Reps. As you can see he wants law abiding tourist to be able to defend themselves while in PA. It would not hurt for us from out of PA to also contact the PA Reps. and let them know you will not be spending any money in PA do to what AG Kane has done. Posted: June 20, 2014 04:15 PMFrom: Representative Rick SacconeTo: All House membersSubject: Pennsylvania Concealed Carry LegislationI will be introducing legislation to further the safety and welfare of Pennsylvania citizens, as well as visitors to this state by clarifying and improving legitimate, lawful self-defense options. This legislation will provide for universal recognition of concealed carry permits among States.Current Pennsylvania law is conflicting, in some regards, limiting. My legislation will address these areas and will also lead to a more straightforward and more easily interpreted understanding of the laws by citizens when carrying firearms and by law enforcement when interacting with citizens who carry a permit within their own State.By improving the opportunities for the law abiding citizens to carry self-defense tools into Pennsylvania, we will be seen as a leader in promoting public welfare, not to mention the increased tourism due to a higher safety factor of a state that promotes self-defense options for law-abiding citizens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NEAHS 11 Posted July 2, 2014 Here is the PA Reps. contact list: Brad Roae [email protected] R (717) 7872353Fred Keller F [email protected] R (717) 7873443Garth Everett [email protected] R (717) 7875270Jim Cox [email protected] R (717) 7722435Jim Marshall [email protected] R (717) 2606432Martin Causer [email protected] R (717) 7875075Mike Reese [email protected] R (717) 7839311Ron Miller [email protected] R (717) 7838389Ryan Aument [email protected] R (717) 7057161Seth Grove [email protected] R (717) 7832655Carl Metzgar [email protected] R (717) 7838756Dan Moul [email protected] R (717) 7835217David Maloney [email protected] R (717) 260-6161David Millard [email protected] R (717) 7831102Harry Readshaw [email protected] D (717) 7830411Jaret Gibbons [email protected] D (717) 7052060Jerry Stern [email protected] R (717) 7879020Jim Christiana [email protected] R (717) 2606144Lee James [email protected] R (717) 7838188Mark Gillen [email protected] R (717) 7878550Sue Helm [email protected] R (717) 7871230Will Tallman [email protected] R (717) 7838875Bill Kortz [email protected] D (717) 7878175David Hickernell [email protected] R (717) 7832076Donna Oberlander [email protected] R (717) 7729908Frank Farry [email protected] R (717)2606140Gerald Mullery [email protected] D (717) 7834893Jeffrey Pyle [email protected] R (717) 7835327Joe Emrick [email protected] R (717) 2606159John Lawrence [email protected] R (717) 2606117Matthew Baker [email protected] R (717) 7725371Michele Brooks [email protected] R (717) 7835008Paul Clymer [email protected] R (717) 7833154T. Mark Mustio [email protected] R (717) 7876651Eli Evankovich [email protected] R (717) 2606129Gordon Denlinger [email protected] R (717) 7873531Jerry Knowles [email protected] R (717) 7879029John McGinnis [email protected] R (717) 7876419John Maher [email protected] R (717) 7831522Joseph Petrarca [email protected] D (717) 7875142Kathy Rapp [email protected] R (717) 7871367Keith Greiner [email protected] R (717) 7836422Mike Fleck [email protected] R (717) 7873335Pam Snyder [email protected] D (717) 7833797Tina Pickett [email protected] R (717) 7838238Curtis Sonney [email protected] R (717) 7839087John Payne [email protected] R (717) 7872684Julie Harhart [email protected] D (717) 7725398Katharine Watson [email protected] R (717) 7875452Kerry Benninghoff [email protected] R (717) 7831918Mark Longietti [email protected] D (717) 7724035Mauree Gingrich [email protected] R (717) 7831815Robert Godshall [email protected] R (717) 7836428Ryan Bizzarro [email protected] D (717) 7722297Stephen Barrar [email protected] R (717) 7833038Gary Day [email protected] R (717) 7873017Lynda Culver [email protected] R (717) 7873485Mario Scavello [email protected] R (717) 7877732Michael Peifer [email protected] R (717) 7832037Nick Kotik [email protected] D (717) 7833780Ted Harhai [email protected] D (717) 7722820Ronald Marsico [email protected] R (717) 7832014Brandon Neuman [email protected] D (717) 7834834Brian Ellis [email protected] R (717) 7877686Bryan Barbin [email protected] D (717) 7831491Bryan Cutler [email protected] R (717) 7836424Deberah Kula [email protected] D (717) 7721858Dom Costa D [email protected] D (717) 7839114Glen Grell [email protected] R (717) 7832063Jesse White [email protected] D (717) 7836437Marcy Toepel [email protected] R (717) 7879501Mark Keller M [email protected] R (717) 7831593Mike Regan [email protected] R (717) 7838783Tarah Toohil [email protected] R (717) 2606136Tim Krieger [email protected] R (717) 2606146Todd Rock [email protected] R (717) 7835218Todd Stephens [email protected] R (717) 260-6163Samuel Smith S [email protected] R (717) 7873845Michael Turzai [email protected] R (717) 7729943Frank Dermody [email protected] D (717) 7873566Stanley Saylor [email protected] R (717) 7836426Sandra Major [email protected] R (717) 7832910Joseph Markosek [email protected] D (717) 7831540Richard Stevenson [email protected] R (717) 7836438Neal Goodman [email protected] D (717) 7872798Dave Reed [email protected] R (717) 7057173Frank Burns [email protected] D (717) 7728056Greg Lucas [email protected] R (717) 7729940 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted July 2, 2014 I would let the reps know that you are thankful for this bill and would feel safer being allowed to carry in PA. Be nice! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted July 2, 2014 Don't address PA representatives with negative vibes. Tell them you enjoy vacationing and spending time in their state and would be more inclined to do so if you could feel safe while there and CCW helps to give you that feeling. The AG's actions were causing you to rethink you and your family's safety and due to their quick action on this bill would weigh very heavy on your decision to return to PA. Nobody likes to be threatened especially elected officals Make them believe their actions are causing you to spend more time and money in PA. Find the representatives that are pro-2A and have prime vacation spots in their districts. The word will spread fast enough at the Harrisburg Statehouse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NEAHS 11 Posted July 2, 2014 As Ryan has stated, be nice. Ryan, the only reason I mentioned calling and stating that you will no longer spend your tourist dollars, is because as you know money talks/ BS walks... I would let the reps know that you are thankful for this bill and would feel safer being allowed to carry in PA. Be nice! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NEAHS 11 Posted July 2, 2014 Don't address PA representatives with negative vibes. Tell them you enjoy vacationing and spending time in their state and would be more inclined to do so if you could feel safe while there and CCW helps to give you that feeling. The AG's actions were causing you to rethink you and your family's safety and do to their quick action on this bill would weigh very heavy on your decision to return to PA. Nobody likes to be threatened especially elected officals Make them believe there actions are causing you to spend more time and money in PA. Find the representatives that are pro-2A and have prime vacation spots in their districts. The word will spread fast enough at the Harrisburg Statehouse. +1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted July 3, 2014 Don't address PA representatives with negative vibes. Tell them you enjoy vacationing and spending time in their state and would be more inclined to do so if you could feel safe while there and CCW helps to give you that feeling. The AG's actions were causing you to rethink you and your family's safety and due to their quick action on this bill would weigh very heavy on your decision to return to PA. Nobody likes to be threatened especially elected officals Make them believe their actions are causing you to spend more time and money in PA. Find the representatives that are pro-2A and have prime vacation spots in their districts. The word will spread fast enough at the Harrisburg Statehouse. Exactly. There is a time for negative vibes, vitriol and anger but this is not it. This is a request to support a bill that could benefit us. If you make them feel that they are doing a good thing and getting positive reaction, they will be more inclined to support it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted July 3, 2014 What about paragraph (ii) below? Even if the bill passes can't the PA AG simply say the laws are not similar? ____________________________________________________________ provided: (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109. (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.] The red part is how statutory reciprocity is currently determined. If this bill passes, this will be stricken from the law and the preceding clause that recognizes all permits will be valid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glockamole 0 Posted July 3, 2014 Time to send out some nice emails. I already went on vacation 1 time to delaware since she killed Utah and have another vacation booked with my parents and kids end of July in Delaware. If I have the option to go to a state for a quick vacation im going to pick the state that will allow me to protect my family. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted July 3, 2014 Also bear in mind that it might look bad if we apply PRESSURE... So tread gently. They likely have the juice to do this all on their own, without our help. A short note saying it's a good bill, please adopt it, it will make me feel safe and may Pennsylvania safer - good. A long winded note saying, "Y U INFRINGE?" will likely get them to back down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norseman 2 Posted July 4, 2014 Here's an iPhone friendly list that you can copy/paste [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HBecwithFn7 296 Posted July 4, 2014 My emails, sent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norseman 2 Posted July 6, 2014 I've sent a couple mass emails already. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Glock guy 1,127 Posted July 7, 2014 I'm not sure I'm understanding this correctly. Is this whole thing a unilateral action by the AG, or is she acting under executive orders? I mean did she just wake up one day and decide to start screwing CCW holders, or is there a lot more to it? If it's the former, could our AG theoretically wake up one morning and decide that self defense constitutes justifiable need? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HBecwithFn7 296 Posted July 7, 2014 I'm not sure I'm understanding this correctly. Is this whole thing a unilateral action by the AG, or is she acting under executive orders? I mean did she just wake up one day and decide to start screwing CCW holders, or is there a lot more to it? If it's the former, could our AG theoretically wake up one morning and decide that self defense constitutes justifiable need? The theory is that her campaign was financed by Bloomberg to gain the office so that she could then do what she's been doing (at his behest) via whatever powers she has. Apparently, she has a much different interpretation of the "full faith and credit" clause of the constitution. I hope that HB-2398 passes and is signed into law, so to thwart her efforts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackandjill 683 Posted July 7, 2014 I'm not sure I'm understanding this correctly. Is this whole thing a unilateral action by the AG, or is she acting under executive orders? I mean did she just wake up one day and decide to start screwing CCW holders, or is there a lot more to it? If it's the former, could our AG theoretically wake up one morning and decide that self defense constitutes justifiable need? My understanding is YES. And the fact that a Republican Gov/AG did NOT do it is depressing at best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted July 7, 2014 wtf?!!? did they really just directly screw us by only allowing Utah residents and killing non-res? "Issued by the state of Utah to residents of the state of Utah" so this continues to suck Many states only recognize RESIDENT carry licenses, or will issue non-resident licenses only if you hold one from your home state. That's the policy in both Penn., as I understand it, and NH (subject of an ongoing lawsuit). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted July 7, 2014 ^^^Glad to see your back with us! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted July 7, 2014 Many states only recognize RESIDENT carry licenses, or will issue non-resident licenses only if you hold one from your home state. That's the policy in both Penn., as I understand it, and NH (subject of an ongoing lawsuit). South Carolina as well, and many other states. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted July 7, 2014 South Carolina as well, and many other states. The idea is if you're not qualified to obtain a permit in your home state, why should they allow you to carry in their state? It's not an unreasonable position if all states were equally lenient in permitting policy. Should a violent felon get a permit? A former major-league drug dealer who's probably violated every gun law on the books? Drug offender? You might live in NJ, or in a NY county that does not issue. That many jurisdictions around Pennsylvania do not regularly issue permits gives gun-unfriendly officials, like the lady in Penn. an excuse to be spiteful. None of this becomes an issue if we had reasonable carry licensing laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Glock guy 1,127 Posted July 7, 2014 South Carolina as well, and many other states. Yes, I found that to be somewhat surprising, as SC has fairly liberal gun laws, and most of the states around them recognize Florida's CCW permit, but they do not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted July 7, 2014 I'm not sure I'm understanding this correctly. Is this whole thing a unilateral action by the AG, or is she acting under executive orders? I mean did she just wake up one day and decide to start screwing CCW holders, or is there a lot more to it? If it's the former, could our AG theoretically wake up one morning and decide that self defense constitutes justifiable need? Kane is acting entirely on her own, or at least she seems to be. She might be getting off the record direction from gun control groups. Bloomberg got her elected. This was a campaign promise, to close the "Florida loophole." However, Kane couldn't just arbitrarily drop recognition from what I understand. She had to determine if there was a change in the law that would trigger review of the recognition. As for our AG, absolutely. Our AG can accept "self defense" as justifiable need. The whole definition of justifiable need is what Nappen refers to as "judge made law" which basically means that it is whole cloth from case law, specifically Siccardi and Sills. These cases formed justifiable need based on the policies of police chiefs. Justifiable need? NJSP and the AG made it all up. It's the same deal in California except that the sheriffs get to decide what is "good cause" and not the AG. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted July 7, 2014 Yes, I found that to be somewhat surprising, as SC has fairly liberal gun laws, and most of the states around them recognize Florida's CCW permit, but they do not. That could change if they have enough reason. Nikki Haley is strongly pro gun. We should all ask her if she would be open to getting that policy changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted July 7, 2014 14 pages, wow, that's a lot of talk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted July 7, 2014 As for our AG, absolutely. Our AG can accept "self defense" as justifiable need. The whole definition of justifiable need is what Nappen refers to as "judge made law" which basically means that it is whole cloth from case law, specifically Siccardi and Sills. These cases formed justifiable need based on the policies of police chiefs. Justifiable need? NJSP and the AG made it all up. It's the same deal in California except that the sheriffs get to decide what is "good cause" and not the AG. How. A judge has to approve it. Judges don't report to the attorney general. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted July 7, 2014 How. A judge has to approve it. Judges don't report to the attorney general. Yup. They'd have to receive an edict from the Teacher's Union. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites