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ronhonda

Gunfire and explosions at MIT

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Alpo... basically WTF? Are you Muslim? Are you a theologist specializing in Inter-denominational discourse? I am sure you know much more then me about Muslim faith, differences and people that practice it. And your right a few extremists ruin it for the majority. But until the majority stands up and squashes the majority, I am skeptical of their intentions or intelligence.

As all religions do, if you want to attract followers shape the F^%& up.

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If this is the start of a soft target bombing campaign the sheep are really going to miss the days of the RKBA being their biggest problem.

 

They oppose police presence in schools and want to live in some fantasy land where evil does not lurk around every corner. Just wait until they see what it's like living in a 4 million square mile Israel. Good Lord.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't want to be shuttered up in that neighborhood without my firearms and surveillance system.

 

I hope they're checking the sewers. Some animals crawl there to die

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and we do dont we... as a Roman Catholic I am disgusted by the previous and ongoing actions of the RCC. I hold all people that perform evil in the name of a religion responsible. NEVER EVER said I did.

 

And I dont hold all Muslims responsesible and never said I did... you are not reading. I question motives, guts and desire.

 

I have worked with many Muslims and have found them to be generally fantastic, yet they all have quibles also. Usually entitled, spoiled and weak.

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No sweat...we all have opinions and beliefs... !

 

I am just curious as to the line of thinking that you refer to.......are you saying that mainstream Islam does not need to police itself and try to rid itself of the radicals?

 

The whole "Muslims are terrorists" line of thinking is what I was referring to.

 

How much can a religion police itself? The condemnations were posted above, what more can they do? It's like asking Christianity to police groups like Westboro. What can they actually "do" about it?

 

 

axeman....I don't know you from Adam...it would be unfair for me to place that label on you. I was referring to a lot of overall sentiment popping up in this thread.

 

 

Besides...it gives me an excuse to use this old line: "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

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If your definition of a bigot is as follows:

 

1) Dislike of Muslim Radicals killing innocents for their faith ( I could probably tolerate them more if they used military target but I digress)

 

2) Thinking that the Islamic faith needs to get MORE involved in stopping those killing in their name

 

3) Thinks that I do not trust the lot of them....at this time

 

 

Then I guess I am a bigot..........by your definition

.

 

1 & 2, not at all.....3, "not trusting the lot of them"....to me that's unfair. It's no different than antis not trusting gun owners because of criminals....no different at all.

 

I know the word has a bad connotation, but the definition is: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

 

 

 

Listen, I didn't mean to stir the pot....I apologize for ruffling feathers, it wasn't my intention, only to open eyes.

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If you hold all people of Islamic faith responsible for the actions of a few....you also have to hold all Christians responsible for the Crusades, the persecution of the Jews, and the extermination of the native people of the Americas.....AND, you have to hold all gun owners responsible for the actions of the mass killers.

 

I had the pleasure of working with someone who was Islamic, and he was kind enough to sit down and explain his religion to me one day.

 

As someone said above....holding them responsible for the actions of the extremists is just like equating all Christians to the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

 

 

The majority of homicide in this world has been done in the name of God.

 

It's extremely sad.

 

Not "God"... but "A" God... whether it was the Christian God, the Muslim God, the Japanese Emperor/God, the chinese and russian "God" of communism (actually, I think communism trumps deaths by all the other "GOds" combined. Pretty easy math.

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Words vs. actions.

 

Mosques and Islamic centers all over the US abhor violence but when was the last time one turned in a radical element in their midst?

 

I have and continue to work with Muslims on a daily basis. I do business in Jordan and have been in the middle east and asia many times. And just like certain christian organizations have thinly veiled support for extreme views on gays or abortion-performing doctors, the main stream organizations do have some responsibility to root them out and turn them in. We expect the Catholic Church to police pedophile priests, don't we?

 

But all this is nothing but a symptom of the most successful virus in the history of man.

 

 

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This thread is going places!

 

Do you guys think that these 2 kids could have done this completely on their own or did they develop into a microcell while travelling overseas recently? It's weird that around the time of the bombing intelligence analysts had said there was no increase in chatter.

 

The aunt and father of these boys are rambling about the kids being setup. That line of thought is common in their culture (and even in central Europe) but it looks very wacky when presented to an American television audience.

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Do you guys think that these 2 kids could have done this completely on their own or did they develop into a microcell while travelling overseas recently?

 

That's the million dollar question right now.

 

I struggle with the idea they appeared to be very "Americanized" and stayed here, but yet held contempt for the US?

 

 

That's what doesn't add up to me and has me leaning toward the latter. If true....who knows how long this ball of string is?

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Sorry, I updated my post above.

 

As to my relationship to islam- I grew up in Paterson and so by default I’ve known A LOT of Muslims ever since I was a kid. Some of them, very close friends. As it turns out, they're almost exactly like anyone else: i.e. there are @$$holes, nice people, criminals, cops, politicians, doctors, you get the idea.

 

And also I bothered to learn about the religion, especially after 9/11 and I have no problem with it at all. But the effing radicals... ugh.

 

The radicalization problem is really easy to explain. Imagine if the Westboro jerkoffs somehow got really rich AND were able to take control of an entire area the size of Alaska and Texas put together, all way before the spread of mass communications. And then they struck oil.

 

That's exactly what happened to the Muslims. 200+ years ago, a Westboro-style wacko preacher named Abdul-Wahab teamed up with a rich Arabian guy named ibn Saud. They took over Arabia, renamed it after the rich guy and forced Wahabi-style Islam on everyone in the country. Then they struck oil and starting using the money to spread their brand of religion.

Throw in some post-colonial geopolitics and here we are.

 

Trust me, most Muslims want nothing to do with this garbage. But they have no more power to change it than you or I, other than speaking out against it and trying to teach their kids better.

PS, I wouldn't call anyone here a bigot for disagreeing. If not for where I grew up, I probably wouldn't anymore about this than the average American does. But since I do, I feel like I should speak up and would hope you'd at least consider things might not be as black and white as it sometimes seems.

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Absence of religion accounts for more bloodshed, the left ignores Mao, Stalin, etc.

 

Communism is a religion. Control by the few of the many. Did you see the look in the eyes of incumbent's supporters on the first Inauguration Day?

 

Zealotry in anything is bad. And true believers are capable of justifying any actions in the interest of their beliefs.

 

Not just in the name of a celestial god.

 

 

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The uncle didn't approve but the father said if the kid dies he will unleash hell on the US. Hmmmm Great role model. And our Government wants to grant amnesty to more of these illegals and terrorist, yeah thats good for us and our country

 

Isn't that making terrorist threats? My son is A piece of crap, but if you kill him because he's going around murdering people i will make you pay for it?

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Communism is a religion. Control by the few of the many. Did you see the look in the eyes of incumbent's supporters on the first Inauguration Day?

 

Zealotry in anything is bad. And true believers are capable of justifying any actions in the interest of their beliefs.

 

Not just in the name of a celestial god.

 

Well said. Even ATHEISM is a religion, with it's own brand of oppressive zealots.

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Last I checked a crap load of them are and or were till be freed them to see Allah

Define a crap load, considering there are between 1.6-2.2 billion muslims in the world depending on who you ask... give us a %. It's actually a tiny fraction of a percentage, a miniscule number. There are bad apples in every walk of life.

 

Besides verbal condemnation what do you expect the other Muslims to do? It's not a centralized religion like the RCC. And hey, how about those folks in Rome just handing over pedophile priests to authorities right and left...yeah right.

 

Further complicating matters is the fact that the U.S. is seen, by a large portion of the world, as a bully. Walk in the shoes of someone who lives, has lived, or has family living in a part of the Middle East that is constantly under the thumb of the U.S. One can easily understand why these things happen [not approving of it or blaming anyone, it is what it is]. We wouldn't tolerate that sh*t here so why do we expect them to? Many of those who aren't radical enough to take action still have a "go f yourself America" mentality.

 

I think the bottom line is this, is the war on terror working? Are our policies in the Middle East successful? If so, hey, let's keep at it. If not, time to re-evaluate. Unfortunately, much like the war on drugs there is too much money involved for anyone to look at anything objectively. The government, the MSM, and most citizens are just a bunch of thoughtless drones. The story line is fed to them and they regurgitate it ad nauseum.

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Don't read much history, do you?

 

Saying the absence of religion leads to increased bloodshed is ridiculous. And yes I know about Mao, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, and their bands of secret police and radical loyalists.

 

I'm saying that a belief in religion can be just as bad as those who refute it.

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Saying the absence of religion leads to increased bloodshed is ridiculous. And yes I know about Mao, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, and their bands of secret police and radical loyalists.

 

I'm saying that a belief in religion can be just as bad as those who refute it.

 

I wouldn't say "leads to", I would say "has been responsible for." Religion/no religion doesn't matter- people will use whatever causes at their disposal (even the anti-religion/utopian government form of Communism) to achieve their ends. That's the point.

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Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. Atheism is very certainly not a religion.

 

Sure it is:

 

atheism_zpsa11703ee.png

 

...sounds like a whole lot of "faith" is required, if you ask me.

 

AGNOSTIC now- THAT would be "not a religion", because it's not ANYTHING. It's the complete ABSENCE of belief.

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I wouldn't say "leads to", I would say "has been responsible for." Religion/no religion doesn't matter- people will use whatever causes at their disposal (even the anti-religion/utopian government form of Communism) to achieve their ends. That's the point.

 

And people on both sides refuse to see that point. You have people that cover their ears, stamp their feet, and yell at you, calling you names and that you're wrong and that their point of view is the only right one. Happens all the time.

 

On one side, you have the people that have the tried and true 'how dare you attack X religion, when its done nothing but good since its inception'

And on the other you have the people that say 'Y Dictator was a gentleman and a scholar and the western idea that he was a monster is wrong, and I'm right.'

 

Its blind faith and undying obedience that starts shit.

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Sure it is:

 

1. Faith and religion are separate. You can have faith and not be religious.

2. Your funny little picture is just that, a funny picture, that does nothing to prove anything.

3. Religion, by definition, requires a set of beliefs, usually a belief in some supernatural being or god, and some sort of philosophy of life or moral code. Atheism has none of these things. All that is required to be an atheist is to not believe in any god.

 

A disbelief in god is certainly not a religion.

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And people on both sides refuse to see that point. You have people that cover their ears, stamp their feet, and yell at you, calling you names and that you're wrong and that their point of view is the only right one. Happens all the time.

 

On one side, you have the people that have the tried and true 'how dare you attack X religion, when its done nothing but good since its inception'

And on the other you have the people that say 'Y Dictator was a gentleman and a scholar and the western idea that he was a monster is wrong, and I'm right.'

 

Its blind faith and undying obedience that starts shit.

 

Actually, it's evil motherfuckers with a God complex who want omnipotence that start shit... the blindly faithful and undyingly obedient carry it out.

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3. Religion, by definition, requires a set of beliefs, and usually a belief in some supernatural being or god. Atheism has neither of these things. All that is required to be an atheist is to not believe in any god.

 

Science is your God.

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"Trust me, most Muslims want nothing to do with this garbage. But they have no more power to change it than you"

 

I think thats BS. Think democracy, think about Catholicism and then the offshoots... They can and choose not to because of fear and security and at worst politics and greed.

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