Gunfire and explosions at MIT

[Soju 153]

Science is your God.

 

Science is real, not supernatural. You can not understand or agree with science and still be atheist. That would make you an idiot but nobody is arguing that stupidity is a religion.

[ruger9 0]

Science is real, not supernatural.

 

Interesting, since "man-made global warming" widely lauded as "proven by science"... has been proven a fraud.

 

And listen- I've got no problem with atheists, save one: there's an awful lot of them who seem to forget this country was founded on a freedom OF religion, not a freedom FROM it.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

AGNOSTIC now- THAT would be "not a religion", because it's not ANYTHING. It's the complete ABSENCE of belief.

 

Agnosticism is the view* that the existence of any god is unknown and cannot be known.

Atheism is the rejection of the existence of any god

 

*synonym of view = belief

 

If you play semantics you can say any view someone holds is a belief, is it therefore a religion? Of course not, they are both views held by individuals. Completely different than believing in religious doctrine.

 

Interesting, since "man-made global warming" widely lauded as "proven by science"... has been proven a fraud.

 

And listen- I've got no problem with atheists, save one: there's an awful lot of them who seem to forget this country was founded on a freedom OF religion, not a freedom FROM it.

Freedom OF religion IS freedom from religion.

[Walt of Destiny 412]

 

Interesting, since "man-made global warming" widely lauded as "proven by science"... has been proven a fraud.

 

And listen- I've got no problem with atheists, save one: there's an awful lot of them who seem to forget this country was founded on a freedom OF religion, not a freedom FROM it.

 

And therein lies the problem.

 

When you have people that blindly follow a person, group, organization or religion, the opportunity to further an agenda that has nothing to do with beliefs of the followers is too great to be avoided by most.

 

Global warming theology has nothing to do with the environment.

 

Mullahs inciting young disaffected youth to mass murder while offing themselves has nothing to do with Allah.

 

Control. History teaches us that.

[ruger9 0]

 

Freedom OF religion IS freedom from religion.

 

Actually, it's not. Not the same thing. Read some Jefferson- and not just his "separation of church and state" in the VA constitution; but the reasoning behind it. His intent was to keep govt out of religion, not to keep religion out of govt. Now I'm not saying an argument couldn't be made for the latter, however that was never it's intent.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Don't read much history, do you?

 

20th century alone:

 

http://necrometrics....00a.htm#20worst

 

 

The Crusdaes, ALL of them, as a religious example, killed only an estimated 3-9 million.

 

What are you comparing that to? World war II can be said to be a religious war? 66million dead all over a "belief".

 

Just because a "war" was fought in the absence of religion, doesnt mean it was the reason the "war" was fought... However, the opposite is not true.

 

Fact: You cannot provide evidence that the lack of religion caused anything, but you can provide evidence that religion did cause killings.... It's a very hard point to make because of that fact, even if you are indeed correct.

 

Was Stalin's lack of religion the cause of all those deaths? can you make that argument with out speculating?

[ruger9 0]

What are you comparing that to? World war II can be said to be a religious war? 66million dead all over a "belief".

 

No- it shows that "religious wars" have killed far fewer people than "control" and "power" wars have.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

Actually, it's not. Not the same thing. Read some Jefferson- and not just his "separation of church and state" in the VA constitution; but the reasoning behind it. His intent was to keep govt out of religion, not to keep religion out of govt. Now I'm not saying an argument couldn't be made for the latter, however that was never it's intent.

 

Actually it is and there is one very easy proof. If you are forced to subscribe to a particular religion then you DO NOT have freedom of religion. I don't give a crap what Jefferson said regarding separation of church and state. It's a simple philosophical argument. Also, I believe he was referring to the state and not individuals.

[Walt of Destiny 412]

 

No- it shows that "religious wars" have killed far fewer people than "control" and "power" wars have.

 

Control=Power=Religion

 

 

[ruger9 0]

Actually it is and there is one very easy proof. If you are forced to subscribe to a particular religion then you DO NOT have freedom of religion. I don't give a crap what Jefferson said regarding separation of church and state. It's a simple philosophical argument. Also, I believe he was referring to the state and not individuals.

 

You're wrong. Simple as that. NO ONE in this country is forced by the govt to practice a particular religion because we have freedom OF religion. And having a nativity scene, or a minnorah, on public property is not establishment of religion. Neither are Christmas trees in public schools.

[tony357 386]

Obama Could Have Deported Boston Bomber But Didn't

04/19/13

From Right Side News:

One of the Chechen terrorists who carried out the Boston Marathon bombings could have been deported years ago after a criminalconviction and the other was granted American citizenship on the 11th anniversary of the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the 26-year-old killed in a wild shootout with police, was a legal U.S. resident who never the less could have been removed from the country after a 2009 domestic violence conviction, according to a Judicial Watch source. That means the Obama administration missed an opportunity to deport Tsarnaev but evidently didn’t feel he represented a big enough threat.

Adding insult to injury, the other bomber, little brother Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, was rewarded with American Citizenship on September 11, 2012 in Boston, according to JW’s source. The 19-year-old, who is still

on the run

, was granted asylum in Arlington Virginia on September 27, 2002, JW’s source reveals.

Years before these Chechen terrorists carried out the Boston Marathon bombings Judicial Watch uncovered critical

intelligence documents

detailing al Qaeda’s activities in Chechnya, including the creation of a 1995 camp—ordered by Osama bin Laden—to train “international terrorists” to carry out plots against Americans and westerners.

The goal, according to the once-classified documents obtained by JW in 2011, was to “establish a worldwide Islamic state capable of directly challenging the U.S., China, Russia, and what it views as Judeo-Christian and Confucian domination.” Further, radical Islamic regimes were to be established and supported everywhere possible, from “sea to sea,” including Chechnya. “Terrorist activities are to be conducted against Americans and westerners…” according to the report issued by the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA).

In other words, it was only a matter of time before terrorists from the predominantly radical Islamic republic carried out an attack on U.S. soil. Chechnya declared independence from Russia in 1991 and Chechen militants are quite the savvy terrorists because they’ve successfully targeted Moscow with bombings and hostage plots for more than two decades.

In 2004 Chechen Islamic militants attacked a school in Beslan, North Ossetia, Russia and they murdered 380 children, parents, teachers and visitors after holding more than 1,000 captive for three days. Judicial Watch also obtained

intelligence documents

from the government detailing that terrorist attack. Jointly released by the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the October 12, 2004, report analyzes the Beslan terrorist attack with a view toward gleaning lessons for potential attacks on schools in the United States.

There’s no telling how many of these Chechen terrorists have infiltrated the United States or how many opportunities the government has missed to protect the country by deporting them. Osama bin Laden specifically chose Chechnya as a terrorist training camp because it’s an “area unreachable by strikes from the west,” according to the intelligence report obtained by JW years ago.

 

Read more at http://www.reagancoalition.com/articles/2013/20130419004-could-deported.html#mWYguYXUIVtIU9C8.99

[greatgunstatenj 32]

You're wrong. Simple as that. NO ONE in this country is forced by the govt to practice a particular religion because we have freedom OF religion. And having a nativity scene, or a minnorah, on public property is not establishment of religion. Neither are Christmas trees in public schools.

'

 

I'm quite confident any professor of philosophy [and more than likely, theology] will tell you differently. You are just not comprehending the scope of the argument. Freedom from religion does not mean freedom from seeing the presence of other people's religions, that is ludicrous, it never did. Just as freedom of speech doesn't give you the freedom to NOT hear some other person's words just because you don't like them. Given your last post I'm not even going to argue this point further.

 

edit: and what I mean by the freedom to not hear someone's words is that if you do hear them and you didn't want to, tough sh*t you have no recourse if that person is speaking within the bounds of the 1st amendment ie not hate speech etc. Your only recourse would be to remove yourself from being within earshot.

[gunguy1960 2]

The difference is- the right says what it is, and its clear and they dont have to create a new definition for every word they disagree with, the left, well they twist and contort and evade, just be yourself, keep it simple, and if your beliefs go against everything that makes up traditional America, dont be suprised, and when people question your belief in the superiority of communism throughout history, respect their right to their opinion.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Actually, it's not. Not the same thing. Read some Jefferson- and not just his "separation of church and state" in the VA constitution; but the reasoning behind it. His intent was to keep govt out of religion, not to keep religion out of govt. Now I'm not saying an argument couldn't be made for the latter, however that was never it's intent.

 

It didn't start with Jefferson, and it didn't start with our founding fathers... it started when people left Europe to go to a place where they could practice their religion with out influence. I agree with what your saying, and the intent of what is written, but that doesn't define the principles on which he was influenced.

[ruger9 0]

'

. Freedom from religion does not mean freedom from seeing the presence of other people's religions, that is ludicrous, it never did. t.

 

Your professor needs to tell the atheists that.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

No- it shows that "religious wars" have killed far fewer people than "control" and "power" wars have.

I don't see how you come to that conclusion based on that list, Mao was religious and Stalin, while not religious, was raised Greek orthodox and almost became a priest. You have Mao in a religion heavily influenced by balance and equality, and Stalin fell strait off the boat. Those 2 guys definitely thought a lot about what they believed in. While Not "religious" wars, they were FAR from absent of religion.

[ruger9 0]

I don't see how you come to that conclusion based on that list, Mao was religious and Stalin, while not religious, was raised Greek orthodox and almost became a priest. You have Mao in a religion heavily influenced by balance and equality, and Stalin fell strait off the boat. Those 2 guys definitely thought a lot about what they believed in. While Not "religious" wars, they were FAR from absent of religion.

 

Stalin was a communist atheist, regardless of how he was raised. WWII killed 66 million people. You got a "religious war" that has killed more?

 

And NO war is "absent of religion", but that does not make all wars "religious" or "caused by/fought for religion".

[ruger9 0]

Rank Death Toll Cause Centuries 1 66 million Second World War 20C 2 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C 40 million Genghis Khan 13C 4 27 million British India (mostly famine) 19C 5 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C 6 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C 20 million Joseph Stalin 20C 8 18½ million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C 9 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C 10 16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C 11 15 million First World War 20C 15 million Conquest of the Americas 15C-19C 13 13 million An Lushan Revolt 8C 14 10 million Xin Dynasty 1C 10 million Congo Free State 19C-20C 16 9 million Russian Civil War 20C 17 7½ million Thirty Years War 17C 7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty 14C 19 7 million Fall of Rome 5C 7 million Chinese Civil Wars 20C

 

 

 

I see mainly death NOT caused "in the name of" a particular God.

[Walt of Destiny 412]

Great discussion.

 

I don't see the separation of control and power from religion. But I concede the point about spirituality vs. religion. But I also do not think that you need either religion or spirituality to be moral. That is the salient point IMHO. Religion actually gives you a structure to suspend morality in the cause of the god or leader.

 

Let me pose another question:

 

Can I disagree with, lets say, Israel's political actions and not be an anti-Semite? Or are the actions of a sovereign state like Israel, political or otherwise so intertwined with the religion that they are one and the same? That could turn a few "wars" that are not classified as religious the other way.

 

With all due respect, and in my opinion and in a huge generalization, western religions are the Santa Claus myth for adults. With the one difference that no one ever comes back and tells you they didn't get the presents.

 

Radicalized zealots with not much to live for on earth are promised a paradise with 72 virgins etc. after they dispatch a couple of dozen infidels and themselves. Good work, if you can get it.

 

It is part of the human condition to perceive everything clearly, except a mirror. I once read a Bush the younger's speech after 9-11 and they had replaced the word God with Allah throughout it. It was kinda scary.

 

 

[greatgunstatenj 32]

It is part of the human condition to perceive everything clearly, except a mirror. I once read a Bush the younger's speech after 9-11 and they had replaced the word God with Allah throughout it. It was kinda scary.

 

I get the heebee jeebees when any leader starts talking about doing stuff in the name of a god.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

 

 

Stalin was a communist atheist, regardless of how he was raised. WWII killed 66 million people. You got a "religious war" that has killed more?

 

And NO war is "absent of religion", but that does not make all wars "religious" or "caused by/fought for religion".

How can u say ww2 wasn't religious? Or were people not killed based on their religion by people who were of a superior race created by god.

[WVisHome 0]

It appears to be over.

 

"Suspect is surrounded. Not apprehended, but cornered and still alive". This comes after reports of a burst of gunfire....20-30 shots. just after 7pm.

[ronhonda 86]

Police scanner from scene

Streaming Video Services

[ronhonda 86]

still alive

[johnnyrebel70 0]

It appears to be over.

 

"Suspect is surrounded. Not apprehended, but cornered and still alive". This comes after reports of a burst of gunfire....20-30 shots. just after 7pm.

 

He needs to be killed and spare us the financial burden of a trial

[Dave_D 0]

So.... Try to take him alive for questioning? Or take him out?

 

I'm guessing he doesn't make it out but what do you think?

[WVisHome 0]

I can't imagine he'd still be alive if he didn't think he had some sort of bargaining chip. He'd either kill himself or they'd have killed him.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

So.... Try to take him alive for questioning? Or take him out?

 

I'm guessing he doesn't make it out but what do you think?

 

I think he'll blow himself up when he thinks they're near the boat (which will really just be a remote controlled robot nearby)

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Boats on fire, he's done

[WVisHome 0]

"Negative movement" after flashbangs