ALERT!!!! APRIL 30th SENATE HEARING AT NOON not 10AM See SLP comte page

[maintenanceguy 510]

All I saw today was room 4 where the hearings were held. I got there around 10:00 and the room was already packed. I managed to get a folding chair in the back.

 

I estimate about 180 - 200 people total in the hearing room and 85% were pro 2A. Great 2A speakers. The crowd wasn't overly disruptive but kept everyone honest. Every time a Senator or anti-2A speaker told something that wasn't true or got the current law wrong, there was a murmur and the information was quickly corrected by the crowd. One standing ovation and several polite but enthusiastic rounds of clapping. Overall, a well behaved group for the passion that was in the room.

 

I heard rumors of people dressed for combat but didn't see any in the hearing room. Lots of NRA, NJ2AS, Molan Labe, and military patches, hats, and jackets, in the room. I didn't dress or bring anything to identify me as pro-2A and had to introduce myself to several people as I could tell I was being eyed with suspicion.

 

As I had expected, the committee made up their minds before the hearing and started with brief statements about why these bills were good for NJ. Ultimately we did not convince them but our being there was important. They know we're paying attention. You can measure passion on each side by who bothered to show up today. That hearing room was a fair representation of NJ and they now know that those that are passionate about 2A rights outnumber the anti-2A crowd in NJ by a factor of at least 5 to 1.

 

Thursday will be just as important.

 

I know there was a second overflow room with CCTV to watch the hearings and there was a crowd outside before the hearings. Does anybody have a rough idea of the total number in attendance?

[sicrado 0]

Today reinforced what the assembly meeting had taught me. These people have sworn to uphold and protect our constitution and continue to act in ways that are so egregious that it is nothing short of criminal. These people in office have no interest in representing the body they represent, do not have any interest in upholding the constitution of the United States, nor does "that document" even mean anything to them. They are in office for the power, and will dictate to us, "people"- what they feel is best for us. I am so disgusted on how these slimy politicians conduct themselves I could throw up. Face to face (as represented by the majority of stories I've heard & personally dealt with) they will agree and even compliment you on your thoughts/opinions about the subject, but then disregard REASON AND LOGIC and vote with the rest of the elected "mobs" agenda... for whatever the topic is.

 

Today has put the last nail in the coffin for me, I will be moving out of this totally corrupted, mob ruled state. There is nothing we can do to have any swaying voice with this regime of elected mobsters, I disheartenedly applaud those who think otherwise.

[pjd832 146]

I've never been asked. All I've been asked is "do you know why I pulled you over?"

 

i dont mean to imply that they approach the car guns drawn and extract and prone me out on the street...simply that regardless of the agency...they have ALWAYS asked " do you have any weapons in the vehicle...guns, knives,etc"....some add other items to the list..like "bombs or explosives,nukes" its never their first question..but its always in there ....along with the dozen (+/-) other ridiculous ones asked...i usuallt just hold up my hands and say "just these"...to mixed reactions...and they move along with the program

[pjd832 146]

All I saw today was room 4 where the hearings were held. I got there around 10:00 and the room was already packed. I managed to get a folding chair in the back.

 

I estimate about 180 - 200 people total in the hearing room and 85% were pro 2A. Great 2A speakers. The crowd wasn't overly disruptive but kept everyone honest. Every time a Senator or anti-2A speaker told something that wasn't true or got the current law wrong, there was a murmur and the information was quickly corrected by the crowd. One standing ovation and several polite but enthusiastic rounds of clapping. Overall, a well behaved group for the passion that was in the room.

 

I heard rumors of people dressed for combat but didn't see any in the hearing room. Lots of NRA, NJ2AS, Molan Labe, and military patches, hats, and jackets, in the room. I didn't dress or bring anything to identify me as pro-2A and had to introduce myself to several people as I could tell I was being eyed with suspicion.

 

As I had expected, the committee made up their minds before the hearing and started with brief statements about why these bills were good for NJ. Ultimately we did not convince them but our being there was important. They know we're paying attention. You can measure passion on each side by who bothered to show up today. That hearing room was a fair representation of NJ and they now know that those that are passionate about 2A rights outnumber the anti-2A crowd in NJ by a factor of at least 5 to 1.

 

Thursday will be just as important.

 

I know there was a second overflow room with CCTV to watch the hearings and there was a crowd outside before the hearings. Does anybody have a rough idea of the total number in attendance?

 

we just need to donate more money to the nra...theyll help us

[sicrado 0]

we just need to donate more money to the nra...theyll help us

 

Seriously at this point, I would imagine the ACLU would be a more beneficial donation. It's sad to say I'm not kidding.

[woodentoe 14]

 

Seriously at this point, I would imagine the ACLU would be a more beneficial donation. It's sad to say I'm not kidding.

 

One would think.

[71ragtopgoat 23]

Seriously at this point, I would imagine the ACLU would be a more beneficial donation. It's sad to say I'm not kidding.

If you think a leftward leaning govt is heaven by all means support the ACLU. They have not sued to support American workers or voters. They have not sued to force Govt overeach and any left leaning issue.

 

But the SAF has done more for us in the last few years then the NRA has done ever. Remember they(NRA) used to be headquartered here. They left a long long time ago and never looked at us again. They (NRA) are only in this fight for one reason only. To stop GOA and SAF from growing to large. If not for that we would already be dead ducks.

[pjd832 146]

im sad to say i think its too far gone for any of it....its great i guess that people continue to have blind faith that all the things so far that havent worked ...thousands of letters email faxes....85-95%speakers in opposition...facts statistics etc in our favor....and they just pass it all and ...our side says..."they are really seeing we are the majority....etc etc"....but dont see that it doesnt matter....they ARE going to push all this bs through...and then everyone thinking christie will veto because of presidential aspirations?...theres so many reasons thats ridiculous...but say he is planning a run for the wh.......these maps pretty much tell the story...2a/guns realistically wont mean squat to him... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)

[voyager9 3,434]

The article on nj.com said that the bills now go to the budget committee. Is that true? Any chance to get these killed there due to their financial burden and redundancy?

[ryan_j 0]

The article on nj.com said that the bills now go to the budget committee. Is that true? Any chance to get these killed there due to their financial burden and redundancy?

 

No they will just raise taxes... on us.

[ryan_j 0]

i dont mean to imply that they approach the car guns drawn and extract and prone me out on the street...simply that regardless of the agency...they have ALWAYS asked " do you have any weapons in the vehicle...guns, knives,etc"....some add other items to the list..like "bombs or explosives,nukes" its never their first question..but its always in there ....along with the dozen (+/-) other ridiculous ones asked...i usuallt just hold up my hands and say "just these"...to mixed reactions...and they move along with the program

 

I didn't mean that either but I've *never* been asked about weapons in the car at all. I guess I just got lucky.

[wooly bugger 1]

its basically farting in the wind. we vastly outnumbered the antis, gave real facts and not hearsay, and were far more passionate, yet they will never suddenly change their minds after hearing us talk. it does, however, show them how strong we are, the numbers we can put together, our devotion and passion on the issues. at the least, youll be listened to. heard, probably not. its never a bad idea to show at any pro 2A event.

I doubt anything that's said will change the committee vote, but at least this committee appeared to be listening, as opposed to the assembly. Some members of the senate do have an incentive to slip in language to minimize the pain to us if they can do it in a way that doesn't completely alienate the majority. We're never going to get them to see the light and drop the bills altogether, but I hope that some of the points being hammered home might at least affect the behind the scenes discussions as they tweak the bills.

 

This is why I think it's better to pick apart individual components of the bills rather than give soaring speeches on the founding principles of this country. They don't give a rat's ass about the Constitution and never will.

[revenger 473]

These laws were pushed through without regards to citizen input because they want to force Christie to either veto every bill ( act like a true American) or to sign them. either way they want chrisite to take a stand so it affects him this November or if they think he will be a republican (? he's really a liberal) candidate in 2016 .

[Cold Steel 0]

After attending hearings, writing letters, sending numerous emails and making phone calls, I can only come to one conclusion. The only thing the Legislators of NJ will pay attention to is the BALLOT BOX. The Anti's need to be voted out of office!

The NJ legislature is controlled by the Democrats. The vast majority of them are anti-gun. These are THEIR proposals we are trying to convince them that are not good for NJ gun owners. They are not going to change their mind about them.

Our only hope on whatever package finally hits Christie's desk is that he will veto some of the things. But if you take the NJ SAFE report and compare it to whatever hits his desk; I'm sure the things that match up will be signed into law by him.

As I stated earlier our only hope for changing the course of this debate going forward is to get more gun owner friendly candidates into office. If we don't our rights as gun owners will only continue to erode.

[Bob2222 316]

These laws were pushed through without regards to citizen input because they want to force Christie to either veto every bill ( act like a true American) or to sign them. either way they want chrisite to take a stand so it affects him this November or if they think he will be a republican (? he's really a liberal) candidate in 2016 .

 

Is he a liberal? Christie signed fewer bills into law last year than any New Jersey governor has in 168 years.

 

http://www.app.com/a...on-168-year-low

 

Christie is 50 years old, and he'll be 55 when he completes a second term if he's reelected. I don't think he wants to retire to a life as President of a second-tier New Jersey liberal arts college. (Or go to divinity school like McGreevey.)

 

He needs to manage this in a way that doesn't frighten NJ soccer moms and Volvo Republicans and is also acceptable to Republican primary voters in Texas, Louisiana and Florida. He's definitely not a 2A guy, but he's an astute politician and successful lawyer. He needs to be, because his political career will come to a dead end otherwise.

[ruger9 0]

The state of the gun issue in NJ makes me wonder if the time to stop being Dagny Taggert and Henry Reardon (the fighters) and start being John Galt and Francisco d'Anconia (checking out, waiting for the inevitable collapse) has come. And no- that's not quitting, that's preparing for the inevitable and the fight AFTERWORDS.

 

And for those of you who haven't read or watched Atlas Shrugged, you need to. The gun issue isn't the "industrial" control that Atlas Shrugged is- but that's not the point- the point is CONTROL.

[Fred2 367]

After attending hearings, writing letters, sending numerous emails and making phone calls, I can only come to one conclusion. The only thing the Legislators of NJ will pay attention to is the BALLOT BOX. The Anti's need to be voted out of office!

The NJ legislature is controlled by the Democrats. The vast majority of them are anti-gun. These are THEIR proposals we are trying to convince them that are not good for NJ gun owners. They are not going to change their mind about them.

Our only hope on whatever package finally hits Christie's desk is that he will veto some of the things. But if you take the NJ SAFE report and compare it to whatever hits his desk; I'm sure the things that match up will be signed into law by him.

As I stated earlier our only hope for changing the course of this debate going forward is to get more gun owner friendly candidates into office. If we don't our rights as gun owners will only continue to erode.

 

This is the only way to get our rights back

 

Be it voting in the Primary (as a registered D) to defeat the incumbent, or in the fall election for a R.

 

We have to fire a few of them to get the message across.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

 

 

This is the only way to get our rights back

 

Be it voting in the Primary (as a registered D) to defeat the incumbent, or in the fall election for a R.

 

We have to fire a few of them to get the message across.

 

Not that many D's get primaried actually, look at your districts history. I know my district the local Dem machine don't allow D's to get primaried.

[Howard 538]

While I did not get to speak yesterday, I did spend some time talking with Sweeney. If he can be believed (IF?) he truly seems to be against dropping magazine size to 10. I would suggest everyone write him and tell him we appreciate this and hope he sticks to his "guns" on this. True it is only one issue, but let's at least try to get him to work with us on this one.

[Barms 98]

I hesitate at even bringing this up because the last time someone mentioned it the thread went on fire. But I just cringed when I heard another speaker say "my god given right".

 

I really believe it just alienates the politicos even more. They do not and will never believe that these laws remove the 2nd amendment.

 

The only comments that even get a pause out of them is real life examples like the gentleman who was the airline mechanic. Or the gentleman who said he was waiting 150 days for his permit.

 

(but I get it. I wasnt in attendance so my opinion matters less).

 

 

[Dan 177]

I hesitate at even bringing this up because the last time someone mentioned it the thread went on fire. But I just cringed when I heard another speaker say "my god given right".

 

I really believe it just alienates the politicos even more. They do not and will never believe that these laws remove the 2nd amendment.

 

The only comments that even get a pause out of them is real life examples like the gentleman who was the airline mechanic. Or the gentleman who said he was waiting 150 days for his permit.

 

(but I get it. I wasnt in attendance so my opinion matters less).

 

I agree, although it is important that many folks speaking mentioned 2A and inalienable rights, many legislators honestly believe that they are operating within regulatory boundaries that would stand up to 2A scrutiny.

 

That debate won't be settled until SCOTUS rules that 2A extends beyond the home, and provides some type of litmus test that Federal and State governments are to use when looking to enact new laws that affect R2KBA.

 

It seemed that specific suggestions on how to change the proposed bills were welcomed, and that any argument against passing one of the bills on the grounds of 2A were ignored. Example is the terrorist/no-fly list bill, where it seemed they were actually concerned about it lacking proper due process.

[mikelets456 78]

I hesitate at even bringing this up because the last time someone mentioned it the thread went on fire. But I just cringed when I heard another speaker say "my God given right".

 

I really believe it just alienates the politicos even more. They do not and will never believe that these laws remove the 2nd amendment.

 

The only comments that even get a pause out of them is real life examples like the gentleman who was the airline mechanic. Or the gentleman who said he was waiting 150 days for his permit.

 

(but I get it. I wasnt in attendance so my opinion matters less).

 

Do you know why the Bill of Rights are "God given" Rights? Really, you "cringe" when someone says that...really? Why? See, Progressives believe they are the grantor of "rights" which means they can give them to some and deny them to others. When a Right comes from God it can not be altered, granted or taken away...it is a RIGHT for everyone.

 

You need to decide, either acknowledge that Rights are from God or from Government. There is no in between. If you want to cringe and avoid/deny Rights are from God, then good luck preserving them and you're part of the problem. The time for trying to agree and find common ground with these Anti-Americans is over and if you think removing God from the conversation is going to help then you are flat out wrong. Look where it has got us....you tell me if being PC has helped our cause. Convince me why removing God from our rights will help us advance our freedom from government control.

 

Simple history will show that EVERY tyrannical and BIG government agenda had to remove every trace of God, the Bible and his Word. But I digress...

[SpecialK 193]

I hesitate at even bringing this up because the last time someone mentioned it the thread went on fire. But I just cringed when I heard another speaker say "my god given right".

 

I really believe it just alienates the politicos even more. They do not and will never believe that these laws remove the 2nd amendment.

 

The only comments that even get a pause out of them is real life examples like the gentleman who was the airline mechanic. Or the gentleman who said he was waiting 150 days for his permit.

 

(but I get it. I wasnt in attendance so my opinion matters less).

 

agreed. Our rights are there no matter what. Saying they were "given" by any entity is fine if that's what floats your boat, but it doesn't matter if you think they came from God, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, Buddha, or Ray Ray they are there no matter what. Demanding that they came from your own beliefs only segregates people and as usual waters down the argument to a point where it has zero effect (besides making those you are trying to debate have their eyes roll back into their head), not that it would have much of an effect otherwise here in PRNJ.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

I hesitate at even bringing this up because the last time someone mentioned it the thread went on fire. But I just cringed when I heard another speaker say "my god given right".

 

I really believe it just alienates the politicos even more.

 

 

+1.

 

People can hate, and flame away........but this IS NJ, and concepts of 'Liberty', natural born 'Rights', and things being 'Constitutional' are all foreign concepts that simply don't resonate. Seriously, look at the make up of the Legislature, they're dumber than a box of rocks...........

 

A commenter on a non gun related news article said it best....'This is NJ, when people think of Dolly Madison...they think of Ice Cream'.

[SmartAss 11]

I agree also. When it came time to "Speak on the Bill" and the speaker would go into a speech about 2A, not trusting the government, etc... instead of hammering specific points of the bills, it seemed like a wasted opportunity to engage Greenstien and Norcross in dialog that would have had a better chance of doing some good. Instead it just irritated them.

[wooly bugger 1]

I hesitate at even bringing this up because the last time someone mentioned it the thread went on fire. But I just cringed when I heard another speaker say "my god given right".

 

I really believe it just alienates the politicos even more. They do not and will never believe that these laws remove the 2nd amendment.

 

The only comments that even get a pause out of them is real life examples like the gentleman who was the airline mechanic. Or the gentleman who said he was waiting 150 days for his permit.

 

(but I get it. I wasnt in attendance so my opinion matters less).

I agree. The opposition cares nothing about God or rights.

It depends on your goals. If it's to rally troops and shame the opposition, then it's effective.

If you're trying to catch the ear of any moderate senators and give them ideas on where to push back, it's a waste of time.

 

#1 feels good. #2 might actually make a difference. Friends are few and far between, but someone is listening, or they wouldn't have introduced the bill exempting the Marlin 60 from "high capacity," exempting muzzleloaders and shotguns from the .50 caliber ban, and rendering the "armor piercing" bill purely symbolic.

 

It's easy to be cynical (I am,) but I still think we have the power to soften the blow a tiny bit, which, for those of us stuck here, is better than nothing.

[wooly bugger 1]

Not that many D's get primaried actually, look at your districts history. I know my district the local Dem machine don't allow D's to get primaried.

You don't have to beat them to accomplish something. If we can raise enough of a movement, even in the "safe" districts, to visibly alter the margin of victory, that will scare the hell out of all but the safest incumbents.

 

And there are still three(!) districts in NJ which are considered competitive. One of them is Wagner/Eustace's district. Those two introduced some of the most onerous and cynical legislation. They can be beaten by a R. I was glad to see that Wagner was one of the guests at the "humane voter" vegan picnic. If we can put aside our differences and join forces with the NJOA and other Fudds, we can beat her. THAT will put people on notice.

[NJCK 5]

What mag limit bill? Sweeney said he was not bringing that bill before the comitee.

 

What he actually said was that he didn't want it in S2723, which is full of more holes than I can count because the legislators STILL HAVE NOT CONSULTED ANYONE WHO REALLY KNOWS THE PROCESS, and that is fact. Sorry, but consulting NJ2AS and our out-of-state meddler Bryan Miller and his joined-at-the-hip buddy is not the same as seeking the advice and guidance of a licensed FFL in NJ, the NJSP Firearms Unit, or the State AG. A magazine limit Bill is still on the table, just not made it to committee yet (and hopefully won't)

[claptrap 0]

Does this mag limit bill say anything about grandfathering

[mpe 0]

Am I missing something on the mag limit bill?

 

I don't see the mag limit bill on Thursdays agenda - only thing to do w/ mags at the moment looks to except 22's that can be loaded w/ more than 15 rounds:

 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2012/Bills/S3000/2735_I1.HTM

 

Is there a hidden agenda somewhere?

As disheartening as it has been to sit through these hearings - I do think it would have been alot worse if we didn't