S2723 Revises Firearm Purchaser ID and handgun purchase permits (Sweeney, Norcross, Weinberg)

[plode 0]

I turned it off after the d'bags passes the FID bill out of committee

Who voted for these a'holes??

 

I turned it off right after they said the bill is released. 

 

Maybe I don't quite understand, but my understanding is that their job as a "budget" committee is ensure the bill is compliant with the state fiscal budget, no? 

Do they do any sort of cost analysis on any bills?  I know they didn't do anything with this bill...

[70gto 142]

Any chance of lawsuit or threat of, to stop this bill to look into the legality how this was taken to a second committee to be passed?

[222 3]

I turned it off right after they said the bill is released. 

 

 

I echo the sentiment.  Though not surprised, I nonetheless felt disgusted and compelled to turn off the live stream. 

[plode 0]

I echo the sentiment.  Though not surprised, I nonetheless felt disgusted and compelled to turn off the live stream. 

 

I started getting excited when I heard some of them voting no, and expressing doubts about the bill.  Some Assemblymen expressed great concern over the bill, yet still voted for it.  I don't understand how they can approve something out of the budget committee without having done any sort of cost analysis.  How do they know it is feasible fiscally to the states budget? 

 

I really wish the Judiciary Committee would strike the bill since it was improperly voted on in the Law and Public Safety Committee- against Assembly Rule 12:3.   And as per 10:22:

 

10:22. Violation of Rules by a Committee.

Bills and resolutions reported by any committee in violation of these rules shall not be considered for third reading or final action

 

[vmastro87 0]

So i know im confused but where does this actually leave us? just because the budget committee passes it is it now a law? or just that its "fiscally OK"?

[voyager9 3,434]

So i know im confused but where does this actually leave us? just because the budget committee passes it is it now a law? or just that its "fiscally OK"?

None of the above.  Despite it's name, I don't think the "budget committee" has any requirements to actually assess a bill for its budget implications... they're just a committee of opportunity to push a bill through.

Despite getting through committee, it still has to be passed by the general Assembly and be signed by the Governor before it would become a law.

[wooly bugger 1]

I started getting excited when I heard some of them voting no, and expressing doubts about the bill.  Some Assemblymen expressed great concern over the bill, yet still voted for it.  I don't understand how they can approve something out of the budget committee without having done any sort of cost analysis.  How do they know it is feasible fiscally to the states budget? 

 

I really wish the Judiciary Committee would strike the bill since it was improperly voted on in the Law and Public Safety Committee- against Assembly Rule 12:3.   And as per 10:22:

Can you describe what some of the doubts were?

Does the Judiciary Committee have a chance to weigh in before it goes to the floor? Do we have any chance to appeal the process before it goes to the floor? Or, since the committee broke assembly rules, is the assembly the only body that can intervene?

[wooly bugger 1]

I turned it off right after they said the bill is released. 

 

Maybe I don't quite understand, but my understanding is that their job as a "budget" committee is ensure the bill is compliant with the state fiscal budget, no? 

Do they do any sort of cost analysis on any bills?  I know they didn't do anything with this bill...

There was a fiscal impact analysis done. To summarize the conclusion: "something like this cost the DMV over $10 million, but we have no idea how much this is going to all cost...."

[gunguy1960 2]

Combining a driving qualification test with a concealed carry qualification test would be rather fun. Running around the cones with your firearm as the instructor yells "serpentine!, serpentine!".

[MeanderingCuban 8]

I think we should all contact the speaker of the assembly regarding the halting of a vote by a chairman, while votes have already been cast, due to the infavorable voting results the chairman disapproves of. 

 

Law and Public Safety Committee

Chairman Charles Mainor

 

At this point, the assembly speaker is the person to appeal to. 

 

Assembly Speaker

The Honorable Sheila Oliver

District 34

15-33 Halsted Street, Suite 202

East Orange, New Jersey 07018

[email protected]

I see the logic but I doubt she will do anything about it.

[plode 0]

Well if she takes notice of this "move the bill out of committee in the middle of a vote", maybe this won't happen again with the 8 round mag limit comin down the pipe. 

It'll be 6 rounds so they can out do NY. 

[Glockguy1120 0]

8 rounds? I thought it was 10

[Parker 213]

8 rounds? I thought it was 10

 

Safe Act states 7 for magazines when carrying or hunting, with 10 acceptable at a range or competition shooting event. NYC is 5. Hence the popularity of the 5-round Ruger 10/22 magazine!

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/119540/ruger-magazine-ruger-10-22-22-long-rifle-5-round-polymer-black

[NYMetsFan86 9]

Does this bill now get its third reading?  I saw the amendments to it were passed though im not sure what they amended

[Steve_G 51]

Does this bill now get its third reading?  I saw the amendments to it were passed though im not sure what they amended

It's scheduled for a vote in the assembly and senate on monday the 24th.

[RUTGERS95 890]

I see the logic but I doubt she will do anything about it.

couldn't we sue to stop it since it protocol and rules were broken?

[RUTGERS95 890]

I started getting excited when I heard some of them voting no, and expressing doubts about the bill.  Some Assemblymen expressed great concern over the bill, yet still voted for it.  I don't understand how they can approve something out of the budget committee without having done any sort of cost analysis.  How do they know it is feasible fiscally to the states budget? 

 

I really wish the Judiciary Committee would strike the bill since it was improperly voted on in the Law and Public Safety Committee- against Assembly Rule 12:3.   And as per 10:22:

how can this be go to vote then?

[NYMetsFan86 9]

i guess its no longer and "IF" its now a "when". I hope i get my ID before they switch. I don't want to speculate what will happen after that

[mikelets456 78]

couldn't we sue to stop it since it protocol and rules were broken?

The same way a German citizen would be able to sue Hitler and the Nazi party...good luck with that!

 

Government is exempt from being sued. Also, it's like someone suing you but you are the lawyer, judge and jury.

[plode 0]

how can this be go to vote then?

Because NJ's politicians are corrupt and won't do anything about it. 

 

Government is exempt from being sued. Also, it's like someone suing you but you are the lawyer, judge and jury.

The Government is not exempt from being sued.  Colorado Sheriff's are currently suing the state over their new gun laws stating they are unconstitutional.  

 

My question is:

Are NJ's Assembly rules considered to be laws?  

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

My question is:

Are NJ's Assembly rules considered to be laws?  

As explained by Sen Jeff van Drew last night at a meeting at Cumberland Riflemen, the Assembly rule they broke is just that, a rule and not a law.

There's really no recourse against the lying cheating bastahds, because all they would have to do is change one word, reintroduce the bill and it would pass, given the Dem majorities in both houses of the legislature.  So we're fooked one way or the other.

 

Here is a link to the pdf of the bill as it was amended yesterday. This is the final version that both the Assembly and the Senate will vote on in their sessions on Monday 6/24.

 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2012/Bills/A4500/4182_R1.PDF

[raz-0 1,259]

The same way a German citizen would be able to sue Hitler and the Nazi party...good luck with that!

 

Government is exempt from being sued. Also, it's like someone suing you but you are the lawyer, judge and jury.

 

Exempt are they? They sure get sued a lot for being exempt, lose a lot too. 

[plode 0]

I just read through the bill, and it states that the FID that will be embedded in your NJ drivers license will expire at the time of expiration of the drivers license.  It says that you must apply through your police department for the FID again. 

So what am I supposed to do, not drive a car when it takes NJSP 6-8 months to conduct my background check again?  Or will I have to get a regular drivers license and then get another new one when NJSP finishes their background check? 

[SmartAss 11]

I just read through the bill, and it states that the FID that will be embedded in your NJ drivers license will expire at the time of expiration of the drivers license.  It says that you must apply through your police department for the FID again. 

So what am I supposed to do, not drive a car when it takes NJSP 6-8 months to conduct my background check again?  Or will I have to get a regular drivers license and then get another new one when NJSP finishes their background check? 

 

I believe the FID would stay permanent and the permit to purchase a handgun (if you have it) would require renewal when your licence gets renewed....

 

 

e. (1) A firearms purchaser identification card shall remain 48 valid, and the affirmation of that fact shall be embedded on a

         holder’s driver’s license or identification card, and each replacement or renewal thereof, until that person becomes 

         disqualified under the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3. 

 

     (2) An embedded permit to purchase a handgun shall remain valid until the holder’s driver’s license or identification card, as the 

          case may be, expires. At that time, the holder may apply to the issuing authority for a renewal. The issuing authority shall 

          investigate to determine whether the applicant is still qualified for a permit to purchase a handgun. The investigation shall include a 

          criminal background check and other investigations required under N.J.S.2C:58-3, or any portion of those requirements.

 

 

 

So I guess that when you renew your driver's licence, your FID stays intact. You then would have to go to your local police department and apply for your permit to purchase a handgun which would then be electronically added to your renewed driver's licence when it gets approved.

[NYMetsFan86 9]

so what im getting from this the p2p still expires but not the FID

[SmartAss 11]

Correct, but the p2p is unlimited for the duration of the four years (OGAM still applies) so no more applying for p2ps every 90 days and getting extensions bs. This is the sugar in the "little bit of sugar in a goblet full poison" that Scott Bach talks about. 

 

Of course, this bill has more donkey punches in it than reach-arounds. 

[NYMetsFan86 9]

i get it now. that is a "positive" for what its worth. So the real negative is basically privacy and possibly having to go through Motor Vehicle BS

[voyager9 3,434]

i get it now. that is a "positive" for what its worth. So the real negative is basically privacy and possibly having to go through Motor Vehicle BS

And no private sales.

And no online ammo sales

And increases fees and taxes

And...

 

[ReadDude 0]

no online ammo sales is the real killer.

[plode 0]

So since in the bill it states that the endorsement on the DL is to be indistinguishable from a standard DL, if I go to a gun store in PA or Delaware, how will they know I have the endorsement? 

Places like Cabelas ask for the NJ FID when purchasing long guns. 

 

Also, this no "internet" sales of ammo thing...lets say I'm in Florida on vacation, and I find a gun shop that has ammo I'm looking for(like the sometimes hard to find 6.8SPC).  Can I pay for it there, and allow the dealer to ship it to my home in NJ?