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EX Carnival man

You guys have to see this dash cam video

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He still had the AK in his hands = Threat.

 

No. No. Danno is right. He would have counted how many rounds were fired at him and determined that by looking at the size of the CLIP he knew for sure that he was out of ammo and no longer a threat.

 

What you see in movies and Video games DOES NOT TRANSLATE TO REAL LIFE.

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Pics of evidence retrieved from the car

http://www.newsnet5.com/gallery/news/news_photo_gallery/evidence-from-shootout-with-middlefield-police-officers-during-traffic-stop

 

Just goes to show how really fast something really bad can happen. The driver was apparently a one month rookie and saw, transmitted the threat and moved to cover in a fraction of time (she was out of the patrol when attacked)!

 

Seems complacency was not in order that day and the good guys go home.

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I wish more agencies would teach drawing and firing from inside the vehicle.

 

 

The agency I worked for still does this. Shooting from the vehicle only makes sense if you have no where to go. If the engine is running and you're behind the wheel its much smarter to put distance between you and your assailant and drive away. If the bad guy is in front of you try to give him some of that 120,000 ft/lbs of energy if you can (get up to 30).

 

and start buying the armor insert for front doors..

 

And windshields, seats, roofs, floors, and dashboards. Fortunately we never had any incidents of this in my office. I've seen junk cars used for this type of training in some places. The problem is if you have a junk car on the range everyone wants to shoot at it if theyt aren't supervised properly. Using the car for cover is another. I saw a hood scoop taken out by a guy with a M16 who forgot the barrel is a bit lower than his sights. Even using a handgun if you jerk the trigger a bit you'll hit the hood or opposing fender.

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The agency I worked for still does this. Shooting from the vehicle only makes sense if you have no where to go. If the engine is running and you're behind the wheel its much smarter to put distance between you and your assailant and drive away. If the bad guy is in front of you try to give him some of that 120,000 ft/lbs of energy if you can (get up to 30).

 

It comes in handy. Suspect with a gun pops up in the trunk, draw and fire through the windshield especially if your the passenger.

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It comes in handy. Suspect with a gun pops up in the trunk, draw and fire through the windshield especially if your the passenger.

 

It should be taught don't get me wrong. You really shouldn't shoot through a windshield unless you have to as bullets go strange ways after going through auto glass. Looks good in the movies though. I know of one case where most of the bullet hit the beltline and about a third of the bullet hitting the upper arm. That was through a side window. Windshields being laminated are tougher and more of a slant. Window glass can also screw things up. That's why SWAT snipers will work in pairs if they need to shoot through a window. One for a window breaker and one to engage the target.

 

Hitting the gas if the BG is still in the trunk and ramming the car will at least dazzle the shooter and its easier to aim.

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I heard someone run up and say "I have a pistol". anyone catch that?

 

30 posts ago...

 

 

Also, it appears an armed citizen that is out of the frame of the video (presumably to the left) comes to assist the officers.

 

You can hear another male voice say something I can't quite make out, but sounds like "Don't shoot, are you okay?". You can then hear him say "I have a pistol. How bad you hit?"

 

9 posts ago...

 

it sounded like a bystander approached and said something like "I have a pistol" and the male LEO told him "get down". It was hard to hear clearly

 

Nope! :D

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"you're right. it looked like he took 2 or 3 hits in the gut, which brought him to his knees. he didn't look like he was capable of much when he was down, and didn't appear to be reaching for anything."

I agree, and that should have been the end, but tell me who would be suing? Also, it did look like semi-auto.

 

he's probably got a relative somewhere.......probably his mother.....who will do the typical "my boy's a good boy! he would never do somethign like that!". then the lawyers will flock to her. they'll try to sue based on the fact that the officers continued shooting, even when he appeared to no longer be a threat(on his knees about to drop). they will "forget" the fact that in this instance, that for all intents and purposes, those officers were in a combat type situation, and were also injured, and thus doing what they felt was necessary to secure their own safety.

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It took 29 shots at less then 15 feet goes to show cops can't shoot =P

 

the average length of todays cars is about 15 feet. there was approximatly 1 car length between the cruiser and the saturn. the perp never moved closed than his rear bumper, and it seems to be stated that the officers took cover behind their rear bumper, with the exception of the driving officer having shot from drivers seat.

 

with that in mind, i'd say the distances were closer to 25-30 feet.

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I dont think the cops did anything wrong...it was a surprise from the usual traffic stop....no warning to a life and death confrontation......the man said kill me.....it behooves anyone who loves life to do that man the favor of relieving him of his painful life....especially since he was still armed and had rounds in the weapon......

 

....cops are not at fault here........not that I am a cop fan.

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They were honored for thier actions? Getting jumped and shot is an honorable action? They shot and killed a guy who knelt down after yelling "Kill me!" at them. Suicide by cop

 

They shot and killed a guy that just showed zero regard for the lives of the 2 officers or the citizenry at large by starting a gunfight on a street in broad daylight. They stopped a threat to their community after being engaged with a superior weapon and prevailed. Those two cops are justified 110% in their actions and are studs in my book. (Yes, I know Ofc. Thomas is a female, but she did damn well for having only 1 month on the job at the time of the shooting).

 

Field Training Officer (FTO Savage - Driver) and his new trainee (Ofc. Thomas - Passenger) were caught off guard by a foe with superior weapons that had no desire to survive the encounter, all on a public street. The shooter was aggressive and assaulted the Officers position with heavy fire and no regard for his own safety. The FTO (Savage) was trapped in his car. He couldn’t reverse out of the kill zone giving himself time and distance to react because Ofc. Thomas was using the rear of the patrol car as cover. If he would have backed up he would have either run over Ofc. Thomas or removed her only cover exposing her to rifle fire. The shooter attempted to flank the Officers using accurate suppressing fire (that is a hell of a group in a horizontal string where FTO Savage’s Head should have been) but was beaten back when both Officers returned fire (FTO Savage through the windshield until he could exit the squad car and move to better cover behind the car) hitting the gunmen multiple times. Anyone who thinks these two Officers should have stopped shooting when the bad guy slumps to his knees needs a reality check. They were both injured, Ofc. Thomas was shot in her left hand and FTO Savage was seriously wounded in the leg. The shooter continued to be a threat even after he was shot to the ground as shown in the video - even though he was hit, the gunman continued to point and fire his rifle at the Officers. He was dead, he just didn’t know it yet.

 

it looked like he took 2 or 3 hits in the gut, which brought him to his knees. he didn't look like he was capable of much when he was down, and didn't appear to be reaching for anything.

 

Many victims of gunshots to the torso will collapse to the ground and appear to be out of the fight as their blood pressure drops due to the loss of blood. However, it is not an uncommon response to have the blood pressure begin to rise as they are horizontal and their own body weight applies pressure to the wounds slowing the blood flow. When this happens, quite a few shooters have been known to restart the fight and continue shooting even after appearing to be deceased from afar. Anyone who is a student of gunfighting knows this can happen and should be prepared for it. The bad guy has the final vote when the fight ends. He or she decides when it ends.

 

I wish more agencies would teach drawing and firing from inside the vehicle.

The agency I worked for still does this. Shooting from the vehicle only makes sense if you have no where to go. If the engine is running and you're behind the wheel its much smarter to put distance between you and your assailant and drive away. If the bad guy is in front of you try to give him some of that 120,000 ft/lbs of energy if you can (get up to 30).

 

And windshields, seats, roofs, floors, and dashboards. Fortunately we never had any incidents of this in my office. I've seen junk cars used for this type of training in some places. The problem is if you have a junk car on the range everyone wants to shoot at it if theyt aren't supervised properly. Using the car for cover is another. I saw a hood scoop taken out by a guy with a M16 who forgot the barrel is a bit lower than his sights. Even using a handgun if you jerk the trigger a bit you'll hit the hood or opposing fender.

 

As far as shooting from a vehicle is concerned, if you carry a gun for a living and work in and around cars you really should experience it. It rings your bell and windshield glass is a strange barrier to shoot through. I first did it at a VTAC class with Kyle Lamb. I learned so much from that experience that I occasionally am able to get a junked car on the range for my guys to shot into, out of, and around.

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They shot and killed a guy that just showed zero regard for the lives of the 2 officers or the citizenry at large by starting a gunfight on a street in broad daylight. They stopped a threat to their community after being engaged with a superior weapon and prevailed. Those two cops are justified 110% in their actions and are studs in my book. (Yes, I know Ofc. Thomas is a female, but she did damn well for having only 1 month on the job at the time of the shooting).

 

Field Training Officer (FTO Savage - Driver) and his new trainee (Ofc. Thomas - Passenger) were caught off guard by a foe with superior weapons that had no desire to survive the encounter, all on a public street. The shooter was aggressive and assaulted the Officers position with heavy fire and no regard for his own safety. The FTO (Savage) was trapped in his car. He couldn’t reverse out of the kill zone giving himself time and distance to react because Ofc. Thomas was using the rear of the patrol car as cover. If he would have backed up he would have either run over Ofc. Thomas or removed her only cover exposing her to rifle fire. The shooter attempted to flank the Officers using accurate suppressing fire (that is a hell of a group in a horizontal string where FTO Savage’s Head should have been) but was beaten back when both Officers returned fire (FTO Savage through the windshield until he could exit the squad car and move to better cover behind the car) hitting the gunmen multiple times. Anyone who thinks these two Officers should have stopped shooting when the bad guy slumps to his knees needs a reality check. They were both injured, Ofc. Thomas was shot in her left hand and FTO Savage was seriously wounded in the leg. The shooter continued to be a threat even after he was shot to the ground as shown in the video - even though he was hit, the gunman continued to point and fire his rifle at the Officers. He was dead, he just didn’t know it yet.

 

 

 

Many victims of gunshots to the torso will collapse to the ground and appear to be out of the fight as their blood pressure drops due to the loss of blood. However, it is not an uncommon response to have the blood pressure begin to rise as they are horizontal and their own body weight applies pressure to the wounds slowing the blood flow. When this happens, quite a few shooters have been known to restart the fight and continue shooting even after appearing to be deceased from afar. Anyone who is a student of gunfighting knows this can happen and should be prepared for it. The bad guy has the final vote when the fight ends. He or she decides when it ends.

 

 

 

 

As far as shooting from a vehicle is concerned, if you carry a gun for a living and work in and around cars you really should experience it. It rings your bell and windshield glass is a strange barrier to shoot through. I first did it at a VTAC class with Kyle Lamb. I learned so much from that experience that I occasionally am able to get a junked car on the range for my guys to shot into, out of, and around.

 

i didn't know that, about getting back into it.......

 

that said....i'm not saying that i think that the officers did anything wrong......

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there is an old shooting video from a Trooper down south. Google "Blackburn shooting"...it should come up. Tpr. shot Blackburn with a .357 multiple times, point blank....disabled and laying behind his car pointing his ".22!!! mini pistol" at where he thought the Tpr. would come to check on him. Tpr does just that, is shot with the .22, passes under vest into heart killing Tpr. Blackburn lived with his 4 for 5 .357 mid body shots........NEVER STOP until the threat stops! I'm not betting MY life on it after some crazy shoots a 7.62 at me point blank.

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