dtown223 12 Posted May 19, 2013 Planning a "variant" purchase for the summer, and the NJ legal arsenal has definitely caught my eye. Don't mind paying for quality, wanted to ask for opinions as to what other offerings are considered "top tier" AK? If a PTR 32 comes on the radar this might be a moot point, figured I'd ask Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acuevo 0 Posted May 23, 2013 most people will say that arsenals are THE top notch AK. i see no evidence otherwise BUT in my opinion you can get one just as good for a lesser price. it may not be as pretty but come on, its an AK. that being said they do look GREAT, the only thing i would change if i had one is the plastic hand guards. as far as other options at the "top tier" level, i hear good things about waffen werks, and VEPR. and of course, if you are handy enough to do it, a converted saiga is probably as close to the real deal as you can get. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Matrix 105 Posted May 23, 2013 To answer your question....YES. The action is smooth as butter and the finish is top notch. I have never seen the other brands in person, so I cannot comment. I once had a MAK 90 and the finish was rough. I sold it for a lousy $200 - yes it was stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RecessedFilter 222 Posted May 24, 2013 An Arsenal and a regular converted Saiga (the most common conversion) are quite different, with the converted Saiga lacking some of the Arsenal features. I don't have an Arsenal, but I'd pay for one if I had the money to burn. Quite honestly, if you're really looking for an AK, I'd look into something in the lower price range and spend that extra money that would get you an Arsenal on ammo, lots of mags, and other goodies for it. If you can easily afford the price tag of an Arsenal, then get one and then get all the goodies as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtown223 12 Posted May 24, 2013 Good input, thanks all Seems like moderately priced "variants" are in the ~800$ range (+ compliance work, if needed, add more $$) If NJ legal arsenal is +- 500 more, and the quality is commensurate to the price, I figure it's worth it. Mags & ammo are still available "enough" that a 7.62 x 39 can pass my budget committee. (Unlike my 7.62 NATO dreams) Perhaps a WTB post in a couple of weeks may be in order.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted May 24, 2013 what are you looking to do with the gun.. I found 7.62x39 to be awesome inside 100 yards... it goes through things... but at any significant distance it drops like a rock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HODGIE 3 Posted May 24, 2013 There currently are a ton of AK-74's on the market in the $725.00 to $799.00 range, ofcourse you would have to have it shipped to a FFL and made NJ complaint but that should still be under the typical $1000.00 arsenal cost right now. 5.45x39 ammo is out there and still cheaper then x39. My opinion is that you can get just as good for less over an Arsenal. http://www.classicfirearms.com/long-guns/ak74riflewusparts-549 http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1TGAK74&name=AK74+5.45x39+Rifle&groupid=6 http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1TGAK74PLUM&name=AK+74+5.45x39+Rifle+w%2f+Plum+Synthetic+Stock&groupid=6 On the higher end. http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1JRAK74&name=JAMES+RIVER+ARMORY+AK74+5.45X39+Rifle&groupid=11 Center fire has a bit of everything in stock. http://centerfiresystems.com/firearms_longguns.aspx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HODGIE 3 Posted May 24, 2013 To answer your question....YES. The action is smooth as butter and the finish is top notch. I have never seen the other brands in person, so I cannot comment. I once had a MAK 90 and the finish was rough. I sold it for a lousy $200 - yes it was stupid. Too bad on the Mak one of the best AK's out there as far as I am concerned, well made robust, excellent trigger. I put them above almost anything out there in the civilian AK clone market including the saigs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carl_g 568 Posted May 25, 2013 There currently are a ton of AK-74's on the market in the $725.00 to $799.00 range, ofcourse you would have to have it shipped to a FFL and made NJ complaint but that should still be under the typical $1000.00 arsenal cost right now. 5.45x39 ammo is out there and still cheaper then x39. My opinion is that you can get just as good for less over an Arsenal. http://www.classicfirearms.com/long-guns/ak74riflewusparts-549 http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1TGAK74&name=AK74+5.45x39+Rifle&groupid=6 http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1TGAK74PLUM&name=AK+74+5.45x39+Rifle+w%2f+Plum+Synthetic+Stock&groupid=6 On the higher end. http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1JRAK74&name=JAMES+RIVER+ARMORY+AK74+5.45X39+Rifle&groupid=11 Center fire has a bit of everything in stock. http://centerfiresystems.com/firearms_longguns.aspx Yeah all the nicer ones that I have been seeing lately are AK74's. The ammo is cheap. Is it hard to find mags for these things in NJ?How are they to shoot compared to the 47's (7.62x39)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RecessedFilter 222 Posted May 25, 2013 Good luck finding 5.45 right now. The only places I've heard have it is gun shows and they are asking top dollar for spams. I'd get a 47 over 74 if you're talking about the current situation and you don't have much of either ammo. It's much easier to find as are mags. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carl_g 568 Posted May 25, 2013 Good luck finding 5.45 right now. The only places I've heard have it is gun shows and they are asking top dollar for spams. I'd get a 47 over 74 if you're talking about the current situation and you don't have much of either ammo. It's much easier to find as are mags. Ammo~> http://gunbot.net/ammo/545x39/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 0 Posted May 25, 2013 Any AK assembled on a commie factory is the best one (receiver, trunnions + barrel, everything else doesn't really matter). Arsenals have good reputation, but a big part of price goes for the name. Basically you are paying for expensive Saiga conversion. You get some extras vs simple converted Saiga, but you have no use for them in NJ: bayo lug has to be shaved, muzzle brake has to be welded. In general muzzle brake was created to stabilize AK during auto fire, on semi it gives you only louder noise, bigger flash and (since it's welded and can't be cleaned) place to collect rust. Also a lot of people change Arsenal's trigger to G2. 5.45x39 (AK-74) is more modern, has better accuracy and more effective over 200 meters + cheap surplus ammo (it's corrosive, but real AKs have chrome lined barrels, so you don't really care about it). Some good AK-74 deals this weekend: Tantal $599 , Waffen Werks 74 for $799 with 4 mags (need to check if they will replace 30 rounders with 10 rounders) All above is IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HODGIE 3 Posted May 25, 2013 Good luck finding 5.45 right now. The only places I've heard have it is gun shows and they are asking top dollar for spams. I'd get a 47 over 74 if you're talking about the current situation and you don't have much of either ammo. It's much easier to find as are mags. Simply not true, it's been in stock here for the last 2 months. Gun broker also has a wide selection, prices on X39 and 5.45x39 have dropped big time. It's still not at the $190.00 a tin yet but has been coming down and it's still cheaper per case then x39. http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=6974&dir=18|830|851 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HODGIE 3 Posted May 25, 2013 I would also be weary of the polish tantals, they had some real issues not so long ago due to the incorrect diameter barrels being used. Many we're key holing from day one, once the bores were slugged it was found they were more suited for the 5.56 and not the 5.45. Gotta love century! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 0 Posted May 25, 2013 I would also be weary of the polish tantals, they had some real issues not so long ago due to the incorrect diameter barrels being used. Many we're key holing from day one, once the bores were slugged it was found they were more suited for the 5.56 and not the 5.45. Gotta love century! I think it was a while ago, those with keyholing issue have specific serial #s Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RecessedFilter 222 Posted May 25, 2013 Simply not true, it's been in stock here for the last 2 months. Gun broker also has a wide selection, prices on X39 and 5.45x39 have dropped big time. It's still not at the $190.00 a tin yet but has been coming down and it's still cheaper per case then x39. http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=6974&dir=18|830|851 I guess since I haven't needed any for a while my quick searches at popular ammo sites haven't brought up much. But that's usually the case, shops with less traffic have stock while more popular shops don't. I would also be weary of the polish tantals, they had some real issues not so long ago due to the incorrect diameter barrels being used. Many we're key holing from day one, once the bores were slugged it was found they were more suited for the 5.56 and not the 5.45. Gotta love century! There have been numerous posts on AK forums that this has been resolved. Well, at least most people getting Tantal's nowadays are posting pics and range reviews and having better luck with them. The Century monkeys were beating on them quite a few years ago, but they have seemed to up their QC a bit more lately. Every so often you will still find a canted sight WASR though. Most of their higher priced firearms have much better QC, such as their milled receivers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtown223 12 Posted May 25, 2013 what are you looking to do with the gun.. I found 7.62x39 to be awesome inside 100 yards... it goes through things... but at any significant distance it drops like a rock Fills a slot in the "must have" category Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtown223 12 Posted May 25, 2013 Any AK assembled on a commie factory is the best one (receiver, trunnions + barrel, everything else doesn't really matter). Arsenals have good reputation, but a big part of price goes for the name. Basically you are paying for expensive Saiga conversion. You get some extras vs simple converted Saiga, but you have no use for them in NJ: bayo lug has to be shaved, muzzle brake has to be welded. In general muzzle brake was created to stabilize AK during auto fire, on semi it gives you only louder noise, bigger flash and (since it's welded and can't be cleaned) place to collect rust. Also a lot of people change Arsenal's trigger to G2. 5.45x39 (AK-74) is more modern, has better accuracy and more effective over 200 meters + cheap surplus ammo (it's corrosive, but real AKs have chrome lined barrels, so you don't really care Some good AK-74 deals this weekend: Tantal $599 , Waffen Werks 74 for $799 with 4 mags (need to check if they will replace 30 rounders with 10 rounders) All above is IMO. Thing is, I've already got a kick-ass AR so ballistically speaking,5.45 is similar enough I definitely want 7.62 x 39 So .30 cal it is But...if I can spend 1400 on an arsenal, I can spend 1500 on a ptr 91, or 1700 on a springer m1a right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 0 Posted May 25, 2013 Thing is, I've already got a kick-ass AR so ballistically speaking,5.45 is similar enough I definitely want 7.62 x 39 So .30 cal it is But...if I can spend 1400 on an arsenal, I can spend 1500 on a ptr 91, or 1700 on a springer m1a right? Or, if you want AK platform with cheap ammo, just wait a bit and get something for 6-8 hundred. Preferably Saiga or WASR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RecessedFilter 222 Posted May 25, 2013 If I were you, I'd get something in the 800-1000 range and then spend the extra 500 bucks you would have spent on the Arsenal to stoxstock up on 10-20 mags and ammo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted May 26, 2013 if I were you... I would wait until AKs didn't cost as much as they do now... they are silly expensive for what they are.. imo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 0 Posted May 26, 2013 Yep, prices slowly dropping down, few more months and could be back to pre-panic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtown223 12 Posted May 26, 2013 Probably wise to wait for prices to stabilize a bit, make a decision down the road.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 0 Posted May 26, 2013 Unless you have a dictator friend and want to give him a nice gift - there is good deal right now, gold plated WASR for only $4300: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333281005 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sl0818 0 Posted May 26, 2013 i hear waffen werks makes a decent ak platform Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 0 Posted May 26, 2013 i hear waffen werks makes a decent ak platform Yes, I have one of those, not bad for US made, specially at that price. Finish (for those who care) is MUCH better than original AK, kind of too god. But they make only 74s, at least lately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtown223 12 Posted May 26, 2013 Unless you have a dictator friend and want to give him a nice gift - there is good deal right now, gold plated WASR for only $4300: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333281005 See, that's EXACTLY what I had I mind, lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Matrix 105 Posted May 27, 2013 Unless you have a dictator friend and want to give him a nice gift - there is good deal right now, gold plated WASR for only $4300: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333281005 That's from Saddam's personal collection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clintoon Eastwood 2 Posted May 27, 2013 Unless you have a dictator friend and want to give him a nice gift - there is good deal right now, gold plated WASR for only $4300: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333281005 Sorry guys beat you to it, I just made an offer to the seller. Now I gotta find gold plated ammo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
O-gre 7 Posted May 27, 2013 Finish is shitty on the slr101 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites