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Just spoke with him, I'm going to bring it to him to look at next week.

 

He said something interesting, he asked if the Lake City 1969 ammo I am using is delinked machine gun rounds, which they are.  He says these rounds are usually weak and that might be the cause - not enough power to operate the gun.  And I do notice in shooting the same ammo through my bolt guns that the recoil is reduced.

 

So it could be just an ammo issue.  I need to get my hands on some garand safe ammo to try that out.  But he says he will check the gun out anyhow if I stop by.

 

Anyone know if garand-safe 30-06 rounds are available anywhere?  Cabelas?

Prvi and Horandy make new Garand loads but they are pretty pricey compared to the cmp ammo.They are marked as garand ammo as well. The korean M2 ammo that is PS heasdstamped is decent ammo. I used to use that in my OOW BAR before I sold it. If you run out of options contact Dave1563621 on the forum. He is really nice guy to deal with but he might be a bit far for you.

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I am not buying it....

 

 

Your having a feed issue from the Enbloc and he is saying it is weak ammo?

 

 

If your bolt is cycling back off the gas system upon firing and the round is not feeding

Properly from the Enbloc I hope he can say and demonstrate that it is. weak ammo causing the problem

 

I don't know, it could be.  Think about it, sometimes it doesn't feed a round at all, which means potentially the bolt didn't make it back beyond the rim of the next cartridge before it started going forward.  And when it does mis-feed a round, could be the bolt made it back just that far, but not far enough back to have any momentum going forward, so it can't ram the round home over the resistance of the feed lips with authority, and it goes forward crooked.  I'm just speculating here, but I can see how a consistently weakly loaded round could malfunction in this way.

 

Momentum is why the Kalashnikov action is so damn reliable - you look at that bolt, it goes waaaaay back and beyond the magazine before it starts going forward again - by the time that bolt gets to the next round when it is going forward, it's got plenty of momentum and isn't stopping for anything and is going to feed that next round "or else".

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Just spoke with him, I'm going to bring it to him to look at next week.

 

He said something interesting, he asked if the Lake City 1969 ammo I am using is delinked machine gun rounds, which they are.  He says these rounds are usually weak and that might be the cause - not enough power to operate the gun.  And I do notice in shooting the same ammo through my bolt guns that the recoil is reduced.

 

So it could be just an ammo issue.  I need to get my hands on some garand safe ammo to try that out.  But he says he will check the gun out anyhow if I stop by.

 

Anyone know if garand-safe 30-06 rounds are available anywhere?  Cabelas?

 

I have had no problems shooting Lake City 1969 in my Garand, but I have other dates of Lake City if you want to swap and try some.  Hit me up with a PM, if you are local we can swap some ammo and look at your Garand; maybe I can see something out of the ordinary.

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I am agreeing with the enblocs, and oprod spring.  The oprod spring pushes up on the follower arm, which pushes up on the follower which pushes the rounds up to get picked up by the bolt.  If the spring is worn the bolt is beating itself on the inside of the reveiver heel and would have feed issues.  Get some GI enblocs and a complete spring kit from Orion7.  Just like nick every shooter Garand that I have gets a Orion spring kit before I take it to the range.   Also I have heard more than my share of horror stories when it comes to the Garand Guy.  He kinda has a reputation of taking advantage of those who dont know better, or at least I am told. 

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It sounds like a timing issue to me. I did not read every word of all the previous posts, but part of the function check of every M1 includes a timing check to make sure all of the components are timing properly. In rifles that do not time properly, feeding issues can be but just one of the results.

AEC 3 en blocs are good to go. I doubt it's the en blocs, but you never know. I don't think it's the ammo in this case. Speaking of ammo, the best source right now is the CMP.

Anyway, good luck to you. I would be happy to help you out if you can't get up to Tony (great guy, BTW).

Cheers,

--Brian

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Thanks for all your help and comments and offers for assistance!  I'll see what the Garand Guy will do when I bring the gun to him on Wednesday. 

 

As I think more about it, if the Garand is that finicky over enblocs and "weak" ammunition (ammo that nevertheless passed the military's inspection back in 1969 and was speced for machine guns can't be that weak, can it?) then that doesn't speak too well for the Garand.  It is my understanding that a Garand set up right is pretty damn reliable.  That's why I wanted one.  It's gotta be timing or something, some part or other that's inside the action that is off.  I did change the oprod spring, with an Orion7 one, and it didn't help.  I have the whole spring kit, so eventually it looks like I am going to change all the springs out, although I don't think any other spring would have an effect on feeding.  Hopefully the Garand Guy will be able to solve this. 

 

I will let you all know how it goes.  If he can't help me, maybe I can meet up with one of you at the range sometime and buy you lunch or trade some ammo or something so you can look at it!

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A properly set up M1 is not finicky. It will eat all the ammo (of all types) you can feed it and ask for more. Timing is the problem (my opinion). I would be happy to help you down the road, but like you said wait and see what Tony has to say.

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I just got back from the Garand Guy's house, he invited me over to look over the rifle.

 

First, he ran an en bloc clip of 8 dummy rounds through the action manually, and it didn't jam.

 

Next, he put in a clip gauge and it locked in, confirming the en bloc retention was correct.

 

Next, he gauged the gas tube and the gas piston, and they both gauged OK.

 

Then he put the gun back together and said that it must be the ammunition.

 

I asked him to do the tilt test, and he did that but not with the gun together (with the stock off).  The op rod went fully back and forth when he titled it vertical each way.

 

He said it's the ammunition, not strong enough.

 

I asked him if it could be any of the moving parts in the action, he said nope.  He said those things are always good, no point looking in there for any problems. 

 

End of the story, it is weak ammunition according to him.

 

So that is what he said.  Really, it is good to know that the gas items gauge correctly (since I don't have the gauges) but I find it really unbelievable that none of the moving parts back in the action could possibly be out of spec, worn out, bent, or otherwise in need of replacement. 

 

Either he wasn't interested in even looking at these parts when he had the opportunity to, or he doesn't know enough about them to really evaluate them.  I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't know anything about them given his experience and reputation, but what other reason would there to be for him to dismiss the notion of even looking inside the action, at the follower, at the bullet guide, etc., other than he really doesn't know enough to diagnose the problem there?  Unless he's out of spare parts or something and doesn't want to order any new parts?

 

Anyhow, being as these rifles are mass produced to specification and the parts should be interchangeable, can anyone recommend any likely parts in the action that would cause feeding issues, so I can just order new/surplus ones and replace them myself? 

 

Based on his "inspection" today it looks like he doesn't look over these parts in the action whatsoever when he is "rebuilding" garands, so any part that is likely to be worn in the action of these guns are probably due for replacement anyhow.

 

I have to say I am disappointed since this is the reason why I didn't go for a CMP Garand in the first place, because I wanted something that was already fully vetted and brought up to spec.  Kind of boggles the mind to think that someone would just basically assume internal action parts don't wear out, especially in a gun that was manufactured nine months before Pearl Harbor.

 

Any suggestions for parts replacement?  I'd rather just order parts and replace than go through the pain of going to the range and back over and over again replacing one after the other.  I get to the range so infrequently that I'd just rather replace a bunch of parts than methodically determine which one is bad, which would take forever.  Chances are anything in there that is likely to wear out has already worn out and needs replacing anyhow.

 

Any suggestions?

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I just tried the tilt test at home with the stock on, and the bolt wouldn't move.  Looks like it is binding on the wood stock.

 

This might be it!

 

I have to say, why didn't the Garand Guy do the tilt test with the stock on when I was there at his place today?  Or before he sold the rifle in the first place, for that matter?

 

Looks like I might have found the problem.

 

Any advice on sanding this wood down?  I'm just going to use sandpaper and a wood block, and sand it down a little more than necessary so I can put some boiled linseed oil on it.

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I'm not going to be using my Garand for a while so let me know if you want to borrow my internals to swap things out part by part.  The feeding assembly (plus trigger group and bolt assemblies if you want) will fit in a flat rate USPS box

 

My M1 functions perfectly although does not accept parkerized clips that I bought from KS (http://www.keepshooting.com/m1-garand-en-bloc-clip-10-pack.html) -- that's the only issue I've ever had with it

 

Edit: looks like you've figured it out but offer is open

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If it did well with the dummy rounds the internals should be fine. It could be ammo or the way you load the blocks. If you want I can give you a block with 8 rounds of m2 ball I know works well in my and my brothers garand well. I learned in a clinic that there is a right and wrong way to load the blocks. That with under powered rounds may be the cause. Just a thought. .

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

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I will try the tilt test on mine tonight to see if mine moves. I will also try to take some pictures of the stock and post to see if yiur looks different in places.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

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Or if you want to do a trouble shooting of ammo and blocks as I posted before I will give you some m2 and a block and you give me some of yours. I will try it in my gun and see if it shoots. If it does then we need to look at another possible cause.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

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Thanks Nick, that's good information.  You are definitely right, I am learning how it works at least, regardless of anything else.

 

I relieved the stock and it was binding less but still binding even though I relieved it a lot, so I called Tony and went back to his place again today to see if he could find what else was binding.  He showed me that the binding that was left was actually the bolt pushing the hammer down, which is normal.  Even so, the rifle was binding on the wood too before I started grinding the stock today, so I am glad I relieved it more.  Probably less likely to jam if dirt or mud gets in the action with more clearance anyhow.

 

However, Tony still didn't look inside the action itself for worn parts.  I'm not the type of person that likes to argue with someone, if that is Tony's idea of service then I guess we all just know it then.  I like to fix stuff myself anyhow.  So I got home and looked the thing over more closely and I can see that the follower is very loose in the action, it can tilt in the slots more than I would think it should.  So that definitely is worn out and needs to be replaced. 

 

I'm looking at the book "The M1 Garand: Owner's Guide" by Scott Duff, and he says on page 87-88 that most of the time it is the bullet guide, follower and follower arm that is a problem.  That corresponds with what Nick says.

 

So I am going to see if I can find these parts for sale and buy new ones and put them in and see if I can make this rifle jam free. 

 

Nick I might need to see you sometime if this doesn't work.  Is Mastodon Ammo and Camo your place?

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Looking up parts, looks like I can get these items at Sarco in Easton next time I am out there, at a decent price too.

 

Can anyone recommend any other parts to pick up while I am out there?  I already have the complete spring kit from Orion7.

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Did you ask Tony to look inside? have you shot it since you took it to him? you might want to do that before you buy all parts and cut the wood more. It may just work fine. I am no expert but if the dummy rounds feed right why wont real ones do the same? I would still try some m2 ball before I went any further just me. It is still under tony guarantee and he will fix it if its not shooting. You don't need to spend money on parts. shoot it if its not working take it back and ask him to exchange the internals that simple. 

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+1 Nick.  If you want a Garand, CMP is the way to go.... not someone that is doing it for double the price.  

Not double the price it is very close within 100.00 my brother got the same from CMP as I did tony and I admit the park job on his is better but other then that the guns are the same specs. New barrel gi receiver and new boyds stock. mine was 1250 out the door his was 1000 plus shipping and ffl fee. His took 6 months mine same day. 

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I'm just going to get the parts anyhow.  It's $11 in gas to go to and from Tony's house each time, so I spent $22 today on gas alone, not to mention time and semi-frustration - both times I went there he told me that these guns are beasts and sometimes they just don't work even when everything is right, and he made some sort of analogy to remanufactured tools.  Doesn't really make sense.

 

He seems like a nice guy and was polite, but I went there twice and he didn't even look at the follower and etc., even when I asked specifically about the parts in the action. 

 

Maybe it is an Italian thing, I'm supposed to argue with him or something.  I'm not interested in arguing people into doing what they are supposed to do, I'd rather just bypass that nonsense and do it myself and learn something.  Especially my elders.  I can't argue with the guy, he's like a grandpa.  It's not respectful in some way.  Maybe I'm just old fashioned.  In the end, it just makes sense to get new parts anyhow. 

 

Suppose I argue with him and he puts some worn old part he got out of another Garand in there and it works for a bit and then starts causing problems again.  Then I didn't do myself a favor at all.  I can't stand guns that malfunction.  Some people say only accurate guns are interesting.  To me, only reliable guns are interesting.  Jam-o-matics are just frustrating, I get rid of them if they can't be fixed right and relied upon thereafter.

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I'm just going to get the parts anyhow.  It's $11 in gas to go to and from Tony's house each time, so I spent $22 today on gas alone, not to mention time and semi-frustration - both times I went there he told me that these guns are beasts and sometimes they just don't work even when everything is right, and he made some sort of analogy to remanufactured tools.  Doesn't really make sense.

 

He seems like a nice guy and was polite, but I went there twice and he didn't even look at the follower and etc., even when I asked specifically about the parts in the action. 

 

Maybe it is an Italian thing, I'm supposed to argue with him or something.  I'm not interested in arguing people into doing what they are supposed to do, I'd rather just bypass that nonsense and do it myself and learn something.  Especially my elders.  I can't argue with the guy, he's like a grandpa.  It's not respectful in some way.  Maybe I'm just old fashioned.  In the end, it just makes sense to get new parts anyhow. 

 

Suppose I argue with him and he puts some worn old part he got out of another Garand in there and it works for a bit and then starts causing problems again.  Then I didn't do myself a favor at all.  I can't stand guns that malfunction.  Some people say only accurate guns are interesting.  To me, only reliable guns are interesting.  Jam-o-matics are just frustrating, I get rid of them if they can't be fixed right and relied upon thereafter.

I hear ya! keep us posted!

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Depending on where you are give me a shout when i get home from work in a week.  I am in Warren county and we'll get you straightened out right away.   The average CMP gun for a service grade, which most people get, is 625.  These are guns that havent been built by the CMP, they are real GI guns.  The ones for 925~ are the service grade specials which are built by the CMP and have almost no historical value.  For anyone wanting a Garand, get a service grade and you'll be happy with it.  And the CMP stands behind their stuff 100%, any issues and they will make it right.  

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You can get one for 625 from CMP as I will do next spring when I take a drive down. But the rebuild are about the same price. I do agree that you will have no suprises from them at the CMP but if you do your on your own to fix. With a local gut you can just keep on going back to get the work done for free until its right.

I can buy a SERVICE grade M1 from CMP for $ 625.00 plus shipping as Eric said, and it real USGI and was gon over by a USGI armorer prior to shipment to check specs grade and function....EVERY Garand I bought from the CMP has been flawless...from Tony....not so much...and that was only one...and one only...

 

YMMV....

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I can say that I will not get another from him as I am more comfortable with the platform than I was when I got it. I went to him because of the support and I have gone to his place a few times and had some good free lessons on the trigger group and op rod function, headspace, and some hands on with all. To me knowing as a new guy to the Garand I could just call someone for help was worth the extra 100 bucks for a new parts rebuild Garand.

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Very interesting, apparently there is a specification for the angle of the follower which is supposed to be checked during a rebuild or service.

 

See Figure 36 of this manual, on page 44 of the manual (p. 48 of the PDF):

 

http://stevespages.com/pdf/m1_garand-tm9-1275.pdf

 

I have not checked my old follower for angle yet, but will tomorrow.  The old follower is so worn where it bears on the receiver that it wiggles around anyhow, can't maintain a consistent angle in the first place.  I went to Sarco today and bought a new follower to make damn sure that I got a good one.  Makes sense - the follower and the enbloc clip are the two things that aim the cartridge at the chamber.  If the cartridge is missing the hole when going forward, then it has got to be that either the follower or the enblock are aiming it incorrectly.

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Depending on where you are give me a shout when i get home from work in a week.  I am in Warren county and we'll get you straightened out right away.   The average CMP gun for a service grade, which most people get, is 625.  These are guns that havent been built by the CMP, they are real GI guns.  The ones for 925~ are the service grade specials which are built by the CMP and have almost no historical value.  For anyone wanting a Garand, get a service grade and you'll be happy with it.  And the CMP stands behind their stuff 100%, any issues and they will make it right.  

yup..

I implore those that read this to ONLY buy from CMP.

It is rare that you have a problem with any CMP rifle, if you do they take care of it. I got a SG Winchester from them that had an issue with the receiver and they replaced it with a CORRECT Winchester.....

everyone of my CMP m1's shoots fantastic, there is no reason to go anywhere else 

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Just an update, I replaced the follower with a new piece that definitely wobbles less.  Very interesting how basically everything in the action is retained with one pin.  Going to EFGA tomorrow, hopefully between the extra relieving of the stock, the new follower, and some different enblocs this rifle will not jam.  I will let you all know.  Thanks for the help.

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You can get one for 625 from CMP as I will do next spring when I take a drive down. But the rebuild are about the same price. I do agree that you will have no suprises from them at the CMP but if you do your on your own to fix. With a local gut you can just keep on going back to get the work done for free until its right.

 

 

when you take the drive, I'd like to go with you if you don't mind.  I have never been there and would like to go, pick out a rifle etc..  if you don't mind

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