Is transporting loaded magazines to the range illegal?

[Sludog 0]

I saw a guy at the range unload his bag and he pulled out loaded magazines. I saw him walk in so he either loaded them in the parking lot or at home and drove to the range with loaded mags. Is this legal?

[matty 810]

yes

[brocglock23 4]

AGAIN????? http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/22388-loaded-mags/

 

Edit: More http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/54346-transport-law/

[NJSlick 0]

yes

How so? A magazine is not considered a firearm. If the magazine was in the weapon, different story. 

[twentynine30s 1]

How so? A magazine is not considered a firearm. If the magazine was in the weapon, different story.

 

I Think matty was responding yes to "is this legal?" In the actual post and not title of thread.

 

Either way, it's legal to transport loaded mags.

[ryan_j 0]

Legal as in letter of the law.

 

However some cop can jam you up. But that's true for most laws. That's what courts are for. However, Nappen cautions against it in his book. 

 

So generally I do not transport loaded mags unless I'm going or coming from somewhere where I am carrying (PA and beyond).

[NJSlick 0]

I Think matty was responding yes to "is this legal?" In the actual post and not title of thread.

 

Either way, it's legal to transport loaded mags.

 

Ah, you're right. Missed a few words cause my phone has small font. 

[Secret Squirrel 3]

I keep my mags loaded but I keep my mags separated from the guns.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Legal as in letter of the law.

 

However some cop can jam you up. But that's true for most laws. That's what courts are for. However, Nappen cautions against it in his book. 

 

So generally I do not transport loaded mags unless I'm going or coming from somewhere where I am carrying (PA and beyond).

 

please site the numerous cases in NJ history in which someone was "jammed up" JUST for having mags loaded in the car.. 

not picking on you.. just want to review the facts that support this idea.. 

[Adam 6]

Hey look kids, big ben...

[GRIZ 3,369]

Legal as in letter of the law.

 

However some cop can jam you up. But that's true for most laws. That's what courts are for. However, Nappen cautions against it in his book.

 

So generally I do not transport loaded mags unless I'm going or coming from somewhere where I am carrying (PA and beyond).

There is no statutory or case law in NJ that makes it illegal to transport loaded magazines.

 

Can you give us an example of what a cop may jam you up for? Cops do not routinely jam people up over some twisted interpretation of the law. Why? That's called false arrest and is not conducive to career advancement or job security.

 

Yes, Nappen is a lawyer and I'm not. If you ask a lawyer how to be 100% sure you won't be arrested transporting firearms they will all tell you to never transport firearms. Lawyers will rarely ever say they don't know the answer or really don't know. They will caution against it".

 

Please explain why you think transporting loaded magazines out of state is a more legal reason than transporting them to the range.

[Secret Squirrel 3]

Hey look kids, big ben...

 

there's parliament...........big ben

[maintenanceguy 510]

A magazine is not a firearm according to the only definition we have - federal law.   So a loaded magazine is not a loaded firearm - technically you are within the law.

 

However...all you need is a cop, prosecutor, and jury that don't agree and you're screwed.  I'll transport unloaded magazines.

 

Even though I believe transport of a loaded handgun sitting on the seat next to me should be legal everywhere.

[Sludog 0]

Should have been more specific in orignial post. Guy unloaded his bag with his guns inside and loaded magazines in the same bag. Was like a bag that opened up flat and had little pockets for handguns and magazines. Like in the shoot em up movies. Every mag was loaded with inches of its handgun. Kind of like a luggage bag for suits that zippered open full of guns.  I would guess he was involved in law enforcement.   

 

The way I understood the law is that the ammo and gun must be transported in different locations of the vehicle. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

Should have been more specific in orignial post. Guy unloaded his bag with his guns inside and loaded magazines in the same bag. Was like a bag that opened up flat and had little pockets for handguns and magazines. Like in the shoot em up movies. Every mag was loaded with inches of its handgun. Kind of like a luggage bag for suits that zippered open full of guns.  I would guess he was involved in law enforcement.   

 

The way I understood the law is that the ammo and gun must be transported in different locations of the vehicle. 

 

you understand wrong.. 

[Howard 538]

Is it legal, probably; is it a smart thing to do, probably not.  How long does it take you to load a few mags at the range?  Is it worth the risk to pre-load?  Let's look at this way, the law is only what a given judge or given jury decides it is on a given day.  So, let's say you are unfortunate enough to end up in front of a jury.  Would you rather or rather not have them told that you had weapon(s) in your vehicle and you had loaded magazines (perhaps 5 15 round magazines) and were prepared to do god knows what?  Isn't it better to just not do it.

[nuclearheli 40]

Is it legal, probably; is it a smart thing to do, probably not.  How long does it take you to load a few mags at the range?  Is it worth the risk to pre-load?  Let's look at this way, the law is only what a given judge or given jury decides it is on a given day.  So, let's say you are unfortunate enough to end up in front of a jury.  Would you rather or rather not have them told that you had weapon(s) in your vehicle and you had loaded magazines (perhaps 5 15 round magazines) and were prepared to do god knows what?  Isn't it better to just not do it.

 

It's not a matter of time. It is not illegal and where do you draw the line. Usually I agree, it's no big deal and I will load my magazines at the range. But before a large match if I am going to shoot my revolver I load all of my moon clips the night before and store them in a case. I reload so I inspect each round to make sure I don't have any high primers or imperfections in the case so it takes a little bit of time. What's the difference between loading a magazine with 8 or ten rounds and loading an 8 round moon clip? Nothing. Technically it doesn't matter, it's not against the law. The ammo is stored separate from the firearm and that is the only thing that counts. The firearm is not loaded. There is not a single case that has come before a judge, no less a jury where a person was arrested and charged with transporting a "loaded firearm" because they had loaded magazines or moon clips in their ammo box or range bag, separate from the firearm.

 

Everyone needs to do what they feel comfortable with. I always transport my firearms with trigger locks. My preference. This topic has been beat to death but the bottom line is still the same. A loaded magazine or moon clip stored separate from the firearm does not constitute a "loaded firearm". And that's what the law is about. Transporting a loaded firearm is illegal. 

[Howard 538]

Nuclearheli - Technically you are 100% correct.  But for the average person it still is not the smartest thing to do.  Remember the law is what a given judge or jury says it is.  Do you want to be the test case, do you want to spend more time and money to defend yourself because some anti's jacked you up for this?  It's just like you are free to drive around wearing camouflage and having lots of pro-gun stickers all over your car - but why would you want to make yourself a target.  In this day an age it is just better to keep a low profile and not make yourself a target.  Are you likely to have a problem, no.  Further, the way you do it with justification of going to a match you are probably going to be fine.  But for most people it is less than a genius thing to do for a routine visit to the range.

[Cowboy6373 0]

Boy a lot of guys are really afraid of cops in general. I find that most LEO's are on the side of law abiding gun owners. Not that I get pulled over a lot, but I did once in Clinton headed to the shotgun range with my son. The police officer asked where I was headed and I told him. I had 2 shotguns in the truck, ammo (seperate from firearms), clays, etc. He was extremely nice and supportive, and sent me on my way, telling me to enjoy my day of shooting with my son. I also take my son to the police range for his 4H shooting team, and every LEO that I meet there is awesome and supportive of the 4H shooting team. So my experience with LEO's has been nothing but positive.

[Howard 538]

Here's a little perspective from the LEO side of things....   

 

I called the NJSP Firearms unit about this.  I spoke to a Sgt supervisor.  He stated that although it is 100% legal to transport loaded mags, he says for "common sense" purposes it should be avoided.  But it is legal. 

Exactly the point!

[GRIZ 3,369]

ILet's look at this way, the law is only what a given judge or given jury decides it is on a given day. 

This statement is incorrect and misleading. If you are charged with a crime the prosecution must prove the defendant the crime. To do so they must prove all elements of the crime. This is a critical job for the judge when he charges the jury. One element missing? There is no crime.

 

If what I quoted here is true then show us how a judge or a jury can twist the definition of a firearm under NJ law given in #19 above.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Boy a lot of guys are really afraid of cops in general. I find that most LEO's are on the side of law abiding gun owners. Not that I get pulled over a lot, but I did once in Clinton headed to the shotgun range with my son. The police officer asked where I was headed and I told him. I had 2 shotguns in the truck, ammo (seperate from firearms), clays, etc. He was extremely nice and supportive, and sent me on my way, telling me to enjoy my day of shooting with my son. I also take my son to the police range for his 4H shooting team, and every LEO that I meet there is awesome and supportive of the 4H shooting team. So my experience with LEO's has been nothing but positive.

 

I'm glad that your experiences have all been positive and I hope they continue to be so. While they may be rare, people do still get "jammed up" by LEO's who do not fully understand NJ firearms laws.  Example from 2 years ago of someone getting "jammed up" by an LEO (guy arrested for having an "assault weapon" and weapon confiscated when it was a fully NJ legal pump shotgun):

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/21558-shotgun-with-a-pistol-grip/

 

I recently purchased a mossberg 500 persuader shotgun with a buttstock attached, and pistol grip assembly included in the box, legally, in the state of NJ where I live. I was told from the owners that a pump action shotgun with a pistol grip was 100% legal in NJ. I changed the stock to a pistol grip, and was taking it home with me. I was stopped by police, and had the gun confiscated and now have to appear in court as they say it is considered to be an assault firearm. Can anyone supply me with any reputable sites stating laws for pistol grip shotguns? Thank you very much.

 

[Duppie 73]

Every time this subject comes up....and it comes up quite a lot,I read the same tired cliches about somehow getting "Jammed up"",standing in front of a Judge",and I ask the same question...can anyone provide a verifiable,recorded,instance of ANYONE being in this most touted position solely for legally transporting a loaded mag of NJ legal capacity?

I've been asking it for years now with only a weak  "Nappen said in his book"............for an answer.

Gentlemen we all find our own levels of comfort and you can transport your mags in a separate vehicle than your firearms if it helps you sleep at night but the fact is a loaded mag is not a loaded gun.

[Howard 538]

This statement is incorrect and misleading. If you are charged with a crime the prosecution must prove the defendant the crime. To do so they must prove all elements of the crime. This is a critical job for the judge when he charges the jury. One element missing? There is no crime.

 

If what I quoted here is true then show us how a judge or a jury can twist the definition of a firearm under NJ law given in #19 above.

When you stand before a jury you are rolling the dice.  They can do whatever they want no matter how the judge instructs them.  They often make decisions on how much they like or dislike the defendant.  A jury does not have to justify their decisions.  You do as you want, I don't want to do things that needlessly place myself at risk.  Sure the odds of anything bad happening are small, but if there is no real value in taking those actions then why do it. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'm glad that your experiences have all been positive and I hope they continue to be so. While they may be rare, people do still get "jammed up" by LEO's who do not fully understand NJ firearms laws. Example from 2 years ago of someone getting "jammed up" by an LEO (guy arrested for having an "assault weapon" and weapon confiscated when it was a fully NJ legal pump shotgun):

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/21558-shotgun-with-a-pistol-grip/

 

There is more to that story than what is posted there... If you are going to reference someone getting jammed up... Reference a court case... Not a post based on half truths... No offense..

[vladtepes 1,060]

You should remove the firing pins when transporting guns... It's not the law... But just to be safe... To prove you are not trying to shoot someone... A cop may see a gun and think you are a criminal unless its been disabled by having the firing pin removed...

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

There is more to that story than what is posted there... If you are going to reference someone getting jammed up... Reference a court case... Not a post based on half truths... No offense..

 

So what more is there?  PM me if you want.  Since I don't have the "inside info" I'm just going by what was posted in the thread.

[vladtepes 1,060]

So what more is there? PM me if you want. Since I don't have the "inside info" I'm just going by what was posted in the thread.

There are three sides to every story... And to be honest I was not there and the only people that totally know the truth are the individuals that were there...

 

I will say this... If you drive around with an uncased gun sitting in the pass compartment you will eventually find problems...

[JustJoe 0]

There is more to that story than what is posted there... If you are going to reference someone getting jammed up... Reference a court case... Not a post based on half truths... No offense..

 

 

There are three sides to every story... And to be honest I was not there and the only people that totally know the truth are the individuals that were there...

 

I will say this... If you drive around with an uncased gun sitting in the pass compartment you will eventually find problems...

 

So, you say there's more to the story, but you really don't know, do you?

[Urban Grunt 44]

"Just follow the stated law ", if you feel you need to do "extra" to feel comfortable transporting ammo and guns so be it.