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FishNJ

Hooked - Now I need a Muzzleloader

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Went for my Hunter Education class this weekend at the Clinton WMA with my father, brother and brother-in-law. Did shotgun and rifle/muzzleloader, got a perfect score on the exam. All of the instructors were excellent. 

 

The range session for muzzleloader was my first time shooting a newer inline. My only other experience was shooting an older percussion cap when I was in scouts about 20 years ago.  They provided T/C Triumphs. I have to say that we all thought they were a blast (pun intended).

 

Now of course, I have to get one, and am looking for some input. From what I've read, the Triumph is a great way to go. I also saw a T/C Omega Z5 starter kit for a very good price (I think).  Initial use is for the range, practice, familiarity, but i can see myself using it occasionally for hunting a few years down the road. Need something easy to clean (yeah right) so I am not hesitant to use it when I want to. No opposed to anything used either (hint PM me). 

 

What do you think? Thanks for the input. 
 

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Thompson Center is the way to go.  Have several over the years and they all worked perfectly.  Last one was an Impact for the new shooter in the family.  I would make a trip to Cabelas and see what the Bargain Cave has to offer. Always have discontinued models in there.  It is getting close to the time the new models will come out.  If not, the gun counter will sure have something. 

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Went for my Hunter Education class this weekend at the Clinton WMA with my father, brother and brother-in-law. Did shotgun and rifle/muzzleloader, got a perfect score on the exam. All of the instructors were excellent. 

 

The range session for muzzleloader was my first time shooting a newer inline. My only other experience was shooting an older percussion cap when I was in scouts about 20 years ago.  They provided T/C Triumphs. I have to say that we all thought they were a blast (pun intended).

 

Now of course, I have to get one, and am looking for some input. From what I've read, the Triumph is a great way to go. I also saw a T/C Omega Z5 starter kit for a very good price (I think).  Initial use is for the range, practice, familiarity, but i can see myself using it occasionally for hunting a few years down the road. Need something easy to clean (yeah right) so I am not hesitant to use it when I want to. No opposed to anything used either (hint PM me). 

 

What do you think? Thanks for the input. 

 

 

If initial use is RANGE, STOP RIGHT THERE!  Inlines that shoot saboted pistol bullets are extremely expensive to feed, and they're basically a 4-shot gun, since after you take your 4 shots, the grooves fill-up with melted plastic wadding.  Some won't let you attempt to push a 5th sabot down the throat without a thorough cleaning.  This requires the use of a plastic wad cleaner like Shooter's Choice, a sturdy brush and a lot of elbow grease to scrub the bore free of melted plastic.  As long as your idea of "practicing" is to take yer 4 shots and call it a day, you're all set.  You can run-out an buy an inline.  But if you want to experience the true joy of learning muzzleloading friend, please read on!

 

Switching gears, if you really want to LEARN muzzleloading, experiment with various projectiles, quantity of powder charges, etc., then I strongly suggest that you consider the purchase of a Hawken-style .50 caliber percussion sidelock rifle. You can shoot twice or three times as many shots for the same amount spent in materials.  And since you're from Somerset, you can visit me and pick my brain to learn everything you need to know to have many days of care-free range experiences.

 

The ONLY folks who tell you that you HAVE TO buy an inline are people who are either trying to sell you something or they're ignorant of the "old ways".

 

Consider your options and PM me for details.  I'll be more than glad to show you the ways of "The Dark Side"!

 

Dave

NRA Distinguished Expert in Muzzleloading Rifle AND Pistol 

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If initial use is RANGE, STOP RIGHT THERE!  Inlines that shoot saboted pistol bullets are extremely expensive to feed, and they're basically a 4-shot gun, since after you take your 4 shots, the grooves fill-up with melted plastic wadding.  Some won't let you attempt to push a 5th sabot down the throat without a thorough cleaning.  This requires the use of a plastic wad cleaner like Shooter's Choice, a sturdy brush and a lot of elbow grease to scrub the bore free of melted plastic.  As long as your idea of "practicing" is to take yer 4 shots and call it a day, you're all set.  You can run-out an buy an inline.  But if you want to experience the true joy of learning muzzleloading friend, please read on!

 

Switching gears, if you really want to LEARN muzzleloading, experiment with various projectiles, quantity of powder charges, etc., then I strongly suggest that you consider the purchase of a Hawken-style .50 caliber percussion sidelock rifle. You can shoot twice or three times as many shots for the same amount spent in materials.  And since you're from Somerset, you can visit me and pick my brain to learn everything you need to know to have many days of care-free range experiences.

 

The ONLY folks who tell you that you HAVE TO buy an inline are people who are either trying to sell you something or they're ignorant of the "old ways".

 

Consider your options and PM me for details.  I'll be more than glad to show you the ways of "The Dark Side"!

 

Dave

NRA Distinguished Expert in Muzzleloading Rifle AND Pistol 

This is right on the money.

I have two ML's: A Lyman Great Plains Hunter for shooting on the range, and a TC Omega for hunting. I love both. But this deer season, I'm going to put away the TC and see what I can do with just lead and BP.

 

If I weren't LH, I'd have a third ML, a flintlock. But I'm not quite ready to drop the $$$ on a traditional (not PA Pellet) lefty flintlock.

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If initial use is RANGE, STOP RIGHT THERE!  Inlines that shoot saboted pistol bullets are extremely expensive to feed, and they're basically a 4-shot gun, since after you take your 4 shots, the grooves fill-up with melted plastic wadding.  Some won't let you attempt to push a 5th sabot down the throat without a thorough cleaning.  This requires the use of a plastic wad cleaner like Shooter's Choice, a sturdy brush and a lot of elbow grease to scrub the bore free of melted plastic.  As long as your idea of "practicing" is to take yer 4 shots and call it a day, you're all set.  You can run-out an buy an inline.  But if you want to experience the true joy of learning muzzleloading friend, please read on!

 

Switching gears, if you really want to LEARN muzzleloading, experiment with various projectiles, quantity of powder charges, etc., then I strongly suggest that you consider the purchase of a Hawken-style .50 caliber percussion sidelock rifle. You can shoot twice or three times as many shots for the same amount spent in materials.  And since you're from Somerset, you can visit me and pick my brain to learn everything you need to know to have many days of care-free range experiences.

 

The ONLY folks who tell you that you HAVE TO buy an inline are people who are either trying to sell you something or they're ignorant of the "old ways".

 

Consider your options and PM me for details.  I'll be more than glad to show you the ways of "The Dark Side"!

 

Dave

NRA Distinguished Expert in Muzzleloading Rifle AND Pistol 

I agree with shades of grey. You can still use lead conicals and patched round balls out of a inline. I have a buddy that shoots a PRB out of his tc omega and it groups great. I have also shot lead R.E.A.L bullets out of my .50 inlines and had good results. Also last year i used hornady fpb in my .50 which have no plastic and shoot like a dream. You have to find the fine line between what you want to do with the rifle and what kind you like. Love you Rosey lol

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I agree with shades of grey. You can still use lead conicals and patched round balls out of a inline. I have a buddy that shoots a PRB out of his tc omega and it groups great. I have also shot lead R.E.A.L bullets out of my .50 inlines and had good results. Also last year i used hornady fpb in my .50 which have no plastic and shoot like a dream. You have to find the fine line between what you want to do with the rifle and what kind you like. Love you Rosey lol

 

I'm "feelin' the LOVE Rob, lol!

 

Seriously, you are correct and fortunate enough to have picked EXACTLY the proper gun and materials to make it work to get good results.  Some inlines can't shoot patched round balls worth a sh!t past 50 yards since they spin too fast and "unstabilize" as they break back down thru the sound barrier when shot at longer distances without enough powder.  At Old Bridge several shooters tried to shoot their guns at 100 yards and couldn't even find the target frame!  The REALS and the Hornady .50 heavy slugs will work fine, but they do produce a little more recoil than a saboted pistol round weighing only half as much.  For guys like us who are used to some recoil, it's not a problem.  In others it could cause a flinch, especially bench-resting or prone positions.  The REALS and the Hornady slugs both cost 1.5 x more than even my store-bought 370 grain TC Maxi-Balls, so the cost per round is still up there. 

 

It all boils down to exactly what you want to do with your rifle (as you so eloquently stated above!).  Becoming a member of a shooting league is a great way to learn about what you're doing and how to fine-tune yourself to do even better, by learning from others (who've already made all of the mistakes, lol).  That's how I was able to become the Shootist I am.  I don't know of a single "league" or organized competition that uses inlines (although Old Bridge did experiment with them years ago, and some members did inquire and once they learned of a 20-shot COF they NEVER showed-up, either due to the plastic problem or just the sheer expense, so the idea "died"), so the OP might be at a disadvantage depending upon (of course) his other rifle experiences and whether or not he might consider joining a shooting league.

 

The OP lives in Somerset County and drove to Clinton for his test, so he's not allergic to driving a few miles (like somebody else I know, lol).  Perhaps we could invite this gentleman to shoot with us and you bring your inline and I'll bring the Hawken and he can see which one he likes better?  Who knows, he may decide he likes both (like YOU, lol!).  

 

Oh, and thanks Rob for reminding me about your experiences with lead slugs in your inlines.  I completely forgot about them when I went on my "anti-plastic" tirade, lol!  I've scrubbed lots of plastic out of inlines for friends, and viola' their gun was both load-able and accurate once more, lol!

 

Take care and have a great Father's Day!

 

Rosey 

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My first muzzleloader was a T/C Hawken .50 and I shot many deer with it. That was before sabots and optics were legal in MD and VA. Once those laws changed, I bought a Knight in-line onto which I installed a Leupold Vari-X II 2.5x8 which has followed along with the T/C's deadly tradition on the whitetail. The rate of twist for patch and ball and sabots are different, and you can't have one rifle that does both well. I find the in-lines to be much more reliable in wet conditions. Also if I haven't fired the in-line after a day's hunt, you can pull the plug and push the charge through the breach without firing, so it's a breeze to clean and put back into storage.

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If initial use is RANGE, STOP RIGHT THERE!  Inlines that shoot saboted pistol bullets are extremely expensive to feed, and they're basically a 4-shot gun, since after you take your 4 shots, the grooves fill-up with melted plastic wadding.  Some won't let you attempt to push a 5th sabot down the throat without a thorough cleaning.  This requires the use of a plastic wad cleaner like Shooter's Choice, a sturdy brush and a lot of elbow grease to scrub the bore free of melted plastic.  As long as your idea of "practicing" is to take yer 4 shots and call it a day, you're all set.  You can run-out an buy an inline.  But if you want to experience the true joy of learning muzzleloading friend, please read on!

 

Switching gears, if you really want to LEARN muzzleloading, experiment with various projectiles, quantity of powder charges, etc., then I strongly suggest that you consider the purchase of a Hawken-style .50 caliber percussion sidelock rifle. You can shoot twice or three times as many shots for the same amount spent in materials.  And since you're from Somerset, you can visit me and pick my brain to learn everything you need to know to have many days of care-free range experiences.

 

The ONLY folks who tell you that you HAVE TO buy an inline are people who are either trying to sell you something or they're ignorant of the "old ways".

 

Consider your options and PM me for details.  I'll be more than glad to show you the ways of "The Dark Side"!

 

Dave

NRA Distinguished Expert in Muzzleloading Rifle AND Pistol

 

 

+1

I Agee, did the same thing, shot an inline love it and moved on to the hawkens. Now love even more!

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I'm "feelin' the LOVE Rob, lol!

 

Seriously, you are correct and fortunate enough to have picked EXACTLY the proper gun and materials to make it work to get good results.  Some inlines can't shoot patched round balls worth a sh!t past 50 yards since they spin too fast and "unstabilize" as they break back down thru the sound barrier when shot at longer distances without enough powder.  At Old Bridge several shooters tried to shoot their guns at 100 yards and couldn't even find the target frame!  The REALS and the Hornady .50 heavy slugs will work fine, but they do produce a little more recoil than a saboted pistol round weighing only half as much.  For guys like us who are used to some recoil, it's not a problem.  In others it could cause a flinch, especially bench-resting or prone positions.  The REALS and the Hornady slugs both cost 1.5 x more than even my store-bought 370 grain TC Maxi-Balls, so the cost per round is still up there. 

 

It all boils down to exactly what you want to do with your rifle (as you so eloquently stated above!).  Becoming a member of a shooting league is a great way to learn about what you're doing and how to fine-tune yourself to do even better, by learning from others (who've already made all of the mistakes, lol).  That's how I was able to become the Shootist I am.  I don't know of a single "league" or organized competition that uses inlines (although Old Bridge did experiment with them years ago, and some members did inquire and once they learned of a 20-shot COF they NEVER showed-up, either due to the plastic problem or just the sheer expense, so the idea "died"), so the OP might be at a disadvantage depending upon (of course) his other rifle experiences and whether or not he might consider joining a shooting league.

 

The OP lives in Somerset County and drove to Clinton for his test, so he's not allergic to driving a few miles (like somebody else I know, lol).  Perhaps we could invite this gentleman to shoot with us and you bring your inline and I'll bring the Hawken and he can see which one he likes better?  Who knows, he may decide he likes both (like YOU, lol!).  

 

Oh, and thanks Rob for reminding me about your experiences with lead slugs in your inlines.  I completely forgot about them when I went on my "anti-plastic" tirade, lol!  I've scrubbed lots of plastic out of inlines for friends, and viola' their gun was both load-able and accurate once more, lol!

 

Take care and have a great Father's Day!

 

Rosey 

 

If you cast your own like myself, cost is really no difference from rb to r.e.a.l. or others so i guess i dont look at cost. The one guy at the club match still uses his tc encore. Happy Fathers Day to you too Rosey.

My first muzzleloader was a T/C Hawken .50 and I shot many deer with it. That was before sabots and optics were legal in MD and VA. Once those laws changed, I bought a Knight in-line onto which I installed a Leupold Vari-X II 2.5x8 which has followed along with the T/C's deadly tradition on the whitetail. The rate of twist for patch and ball and sabots are different, and you can't have one rifle that does both well. I find the in-lines to be much more reliable in wet conditions. Also if I haven't fired the in-line after a day's hunt, you can pull the plug and push the charge through the breach without firing, so it's a breeze to clean and put back into storage.

You can still pull any projectile out of a hawken or flint with minimal effort. You can also use the c02 to blow it out. I agree with the bad weather. Mainly because my knight is stainless and breach is sealed very well.

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Thanks guys. Yes, right now it will probably be mostly range. I hope to use it hunting down the road. Fully understand about barrel twists, and that might be a compromise i have to make up front, or wait for my father/brother/brother in law to man up and get one also. they are lurking reading this. 

 

I appreciate the offers to get together. Definitely not opposed to driving, just need to find the the time to go. lots going on right now. i'll be in touch sooner or later. 

 

Minnie/Maxi balls - are they a reasonable compromise between PRB and Sabots for a 1:28 inline? Buy in bulk online? 

 

I think part of the initial appeal to get into ML was the Triumph and how easy it was to remove the breech plug. Are the bolt actions or drop triggers just as easy? Cleaning? Like I said, I want to get something that is easier to learn with and wont be a turn off. Like the 22LR of muzzleloading... 

 

I read about the knight disc also. seems good for rainy days. Any downsides to the little holder? some folks upgrading the breech plug to reduce blowback? 

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You can use maxi or Minnie if you'd like. But before I went and bought in bulk I would buy a few or ask someone to give you some and see how they shoot out of your gun. Muzzleloaders are very touchy. They tell you what they like lol. I have owned all different types of inlines. In the end I went back to a non break action and a breach plug that had to be screwed in with a socket or breach plug wrench. The ones where you just unscrew the plug by hand were a pain in my opinion. After a few shots it would start to back itself off. So then I was checking every shot or having to put a wrech on it to keep it tight but then that defeats the point so it was useless to me. I also always wondered about loading it then taking it hunting and having the thing slowly backing off and leaving a gap which could lead to big problems. Granted I don't know anyone that was injured from something like that or if its possible to back off enough to cause problems but I just didn't like it. Also those style have a rubber gasket. If the gasket breaks your screwed. One the break action ones I always got a lot of blowback. That's why I like tight seals like omegas or knights. Cleaning wise they're pretty much all the same amount of work IMO. Guns that are not break actions usually come apart with one or two screws. As far as the disc are concerned. I never noticed a difference between the two kinds. I've had both. I like the discs due to they are so easy to get out. Sometimes a 209 will expand a little and you have to pull it and mess with it to get it out of the hole. With the disc you just eject it like a shell in a rifle. There are pro and cons to every gun. Just got to go with what you like. A lot of people love the tc encore. I myself think its a great gun, but I just can't get comfortable with the stock. Any questions please ask.

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You can use maxi or Minnie if you'd like. But before I went and bought in bulk I would buy a few or ask someone to give you some and see how they shoot out of your gun. Muzzleloaders are very touchy. They tell you what they like lol. I have owned all different types of inlines. In the end I went back to a non break action and a breach plug that had to be screwed in with a socket or breach plug wrench. The ones where you just unscrew the plug by hand were a pain in my opinion. After a few shots it would start to back itself off. So then I was checking every shot or having to put a wrech on it to keep it tight but then that defeats the point so it was useless to me. I also always wondered about loading it then taking it hunting and having the thing slowly backing off and leaving a gap which could lead to big problems. Granted I don't know anyone that was injured from something like that or if its possible to back off enough to cause problems but I just didn't like it. Also those style have a rubber gasket. If the gasket breaks your screwed. One the break action ones I always got a lot of blowback. That's why I like tight seals like omegas or knights. Cleaning wise they're pretty much all the same amount of work IMO. Guns that are not break actions usually come apart with one or two screws. As far as the disc are concerned. I never noticed a difference between the two kinds. I've had both. I like the discs due to they are so easy to get out. Sometimes a 209 will expand a little and you have to pull it and mess with it to get it out of the hole. With the disc you just eject it like a shell in a rifle. There are pro and cons to every gun. Just got to go with what you like. A lot of people love the tc encore. I myself think its a great gun, but I just can't get comfortable with the stock. Any questions please ask.

 

Rob,

 

That's some scary SH!T right there!  The Savage Inline that takes smokeless powder (Model 10?) had the same problem with it's Breech Plug and for the want of a few extra locking threads (according to the original designer, who complained to Savage to re-tool the design PRIOR to release to the public), some of them BLEW-UP as if a barrel obstruction had occurred!!  Photos are on the web showing a mangled paw with missing fingers and hundreds of stitches!  So you're VERY smart to make sure that thing doesn't loosen all be itself after repeated shots at a range session!  That would make me worry enough to just sell the thing!  And "for the record" I never advise anyone to buy or put smokeless powder in ANY muzzleloader, even the one mentioned previously! 

 

My second emboldened line is also important.  "Gun Fit" is always a huge consideration (as you are well aware and stated above).  Most Newbies don't understand it, which is what causes so many guns to go on the used marketplace.....  

 

 

To the OP:  No matter how "pretty" a rifle is or how nice it cleans-up, if it doesn't fit you properly, you'll always have some trouble getting the most out of it both accuracy and FUN wise!  And listen to Rob, for he really knows about these things!  And when you have some time, the offer of trying our rifles is always available.

 

To Everyone:  Have a great rest of the week and keep 'em in the black!

 

Rosey

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Thankful for the discussion here.  I had a great time learning with the inline ML, but I'd like to shoot more than a handful of rounds when I'm on the range. Time to play with some sidelocks.  

 

-- OP's Brother

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Thankful for the discussion here.  I had a great time learning with the inline ML, but I'd like to shoot more than a handful of rounds when I'm on the range. Time to play with some sidelocks.  

 

-- OP's Brother

 

 

First, WELCOME to the Forum!

 

Next, any time you want to try a traditional percussion side lock, just PM me or show-up on the first Sunday of each month (except for June) at the Old Bridge Outdoor Range.  If you just want to watch and try a couple different guns, no need to let anyone know in advance.  If you want to shoot the regular Match with a 20-shot COF, call the League Chairman (info in club newsletter via club's web site:   www.obrpc.org  ) and arrange for a loaner for the day, complete with everything you need to give it a try :maninlove: .  We're a friendly bunch :fan: and you'll surely learn a lot!

 

Have a great holiday weekend!

 

Dave

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Dave,

 

 

Thanks for the offer!  I took a look at the OBRPC website and coming down to try out a few guns and check out the match sounds like a nice little Sunday to me.  I'll drag Fish out one day this summer if I can get him out of his darn yard!  I've never seen someone have so much fun with a wood chipper. 

 

Enjoy the holiday!

 

-- Rob

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