Waffen Werks AK74 opinions?

[malice95 3]

What do you guys think about the Waffen works AK74?

 

I'm thinking about picking one up as my first AK variant. Anyone have one? Do you like the

fit/finish? quality?

 

Any suggestions for a way to add a rail to the top of the receiver for a scope/aimpoint?

 

Looking at this deal...

 

http://www.classicfirearms.com/ak74riflewusparts-549

 

Thanks,

Mike

[Carcano 14]

It is illegal in NJ, even if the bayonet lug was ground off and the muzzle device was perm. pinned it would still be illegal. This is why:

 

 

 

That's a Waffen Werks AK-74, I think they are still using the Nodak receivers. As you can see it's stamped "AK-74" and the NJSP bans all AK variants by name including the AK-47/AK-74. If it says AK-47/AK-74 on the receiver it's illegal and no FFL will transfer it to you.

 

Of course, if the receiver said WASR, SAR, etc. it would be OK as long as the bayonet lug is ground off and muzzle device is pinned plus no 30rd mags.

 

I could be wrong, but if the receiver said AK-47 or AK-74 I would personally run like hell from it.

 

A SAR-2 is the same rifle, they are ban compliant and many came with no muzzle device or threaded barrel and have a ground off bayonet lug. Perfectly legal in NJ...

[3kings 0]

can someone clarify this? ive heard people owning waffen werks here in NJ..

[lunker 274]

I am not sure everyone agrees with the earlier poster. I believe that vendors on the forum sell them. Try JET Agent.

As for optics, an Ultimak gas tube gives a rock solid scout mount for a red dot. Google Ultimak gas tube.

[RecessedFilter 222]

You're good to go. They are some of the nicer 74 builds nowadays and even for panic prices you're stil getting a great bang for your buck.

[Ian S 22]

It is illegal in NJ, even if the bayonet lug was ground off and the muzzle device was perm. pinned it would still be illegal. This is why:

 

 

 

 

How old is that picture? The Nodak Spud model for 5.45x39 is an NDS-2. It is not stamped "AK". Their website pic of the NDS-2...

 

[Carcano 14]

How old is that picture? The Nodak Spud model for 5.45x39 is an NDS-2. It is not stamped "AK". Their website pic of the NDS-2...

 

 

 

The photo I posted is from 2011, Here are my notes I wrote down when I was researching to buy one in Jan: Ran out of Nodak receivers and started producing them in-house and they are stamped "Model: AK-74" with the company name "Waffen Werks", the serials start with "WW" for Waffen Werks on all receivers produced by them.

 

This info is current as of Jan 2013 when I called Atlantic Firearms about buying one.

 

Now, if it says AK-47 or AK-74 it is banned by name and is illegal in New Jersey (per NJSP website):

 

"Assault firearms" means:

1. The following firearms:

Algimec AGM1 type

Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such

as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"

Armalite AR-180 type

Australian Automatic Arms SAR

Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms

Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms

Bushmaster Assault Rifle

Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900

CETME G3

Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type

Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series

Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types

Demro TAC-1 carbine type

Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types

FAMAS MAS223 types

FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms

Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 shotguns

G3SA type

Galil type

Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1

Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms

M1 carbine type

M14S type

MAC 10, MAC 11, MAC 11-9 mm carbine type firearms

PJK M-68 carbine type

Plainfield Machine Company Carbine

Ruger K-Mini-14/5 and Mini-14/5

SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types

SKS with detachable magazine type

Spectre Auto carbine type

Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type

Sterling MK-6, MK-7 and SAR types

Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms

USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun

Uzi type semi-automatic firearms

Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms

Weaver Arm Nighthawk

2. Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is

substantially identical to any of the firearms listed in

paragraph (1) above;

 

 

---------------------

 

 

I wouldn't roll the dice and purchase one since AK stands for "Automat Kalashnikov" and based on the above list it would be very risky or possibly illegal to own in NJ.

[Ian S 22]

As for the scope mount question, the AK-74 pattern should have a side mount scope rail. The NDS-2 EZ is pre drilled for it. Don't know how Waffen Werks configures it. Seems like there would be at least a little play in a gas tube mount. Is it really rock solid? Or is a receiver mount the better way to go?

[Carcano 14]

Here is a picture of the current production receiver Waffen Werks is using:

 

 

Stamped as "AK-74", I could find no dealer willing to transfer one back when I was looking to purchase it. I didn't know about Paul (PK90) at the time so I never called and asked him if the were OK but hopefully he'll chime in.

 

The guys at Atlantic Firearms told me the brake could be removed so the break needs to be pinned, or remove and a cap put on the threads and pinned. The bayonet lug is easy to remove.

It's the model being that it's stamped "AK-74" and that would make it a "Automat Kalashnikov"...

[lunker 274]

The gas tube mount really is solid. It uses U clamps attached to the barrel for good lockup.

[PK90 3,570]

I was not comfortable selling a complete Waffen Werks AK-74 due to the fact it was stamped "AK-74".  I have transferred receivers only in the past.

[Carcano 14]

I was not comfortable selling a complete Waffen Werks AK-74 due to the fact it was stamped "AK-74".  I have transferred receivers only in the past.

 

Paul, This is what I feared about the Waffen Werks.

 

The SAR series of rifles (built in Romania) are not stamped AK so it's not as risky, I have a SAR-2 that's basically a AK-74 minus the bayonet lug/threaded barrel and since the 74 uses a brake and not a flash supressor I assume someone could thread it and perm. install the brake making it cosmetically identical to a true AK-74...

 

Phew! I need some coffee this morning

[Ian S 22]

But the 74 uses a threaded front sight block, no barrel threads.

[Carcano 14]

But the 74 uses a threaded front sight block, no barrel threads.

 

Ooops,

 

 

This is the rifle in question:

 

 

 

I know, no break but still a nice looking AK...Ugh...I meant "SAR"

[Carcano 14]

Here is a thread on AR15.com about putting a brake on a SAR-2, making it into a proper 74: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=4&f=79&t=142341

 

EDIT: Looks possible and shouldn't cost too much, the SAR series keeps going up in value...They have been selling for double what they originally sold for when they first came out (SAR-2's go for over $1K on GB LNIB, Like New In Box).

[carl_g 568]

Good to know... I was also looking at these.

 

AIM has some 74's for around the same price. Are these OK?

 

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1TGAK74PLUM&name=AK+74+5.45x39+Rifle+w%2f+Plum+Synthetic+Stock&groupid=11

 

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1TGAK74&name=AK74+5.45x39+Rifle&groupid=11

[Carcano 14]

Good to know... I was also looking at these.

 

AIM has some 74's for around the same price. Are these OK?

 

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1TGAK74PLUM&name=AK+74+5.45x39+Rifle+w%2f+Plum+Synthetic+Stock&groupid=11

 

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1TGAK74&name=AK74+5.45x39+Rifle&groupid=11

 

 

I just called and spoke to a lady at Aim, she check the receiver and it's stamped "AK74" so it's a no-go.

 

Ughh!!! Why can't these companies do a limited run for poor folks like us?

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

IMO, not a no go.

Does AK74 = Avtomat Kalashnikov type?

Does SAR-2 = Avtomat Kalashnikov type?

The letters & numbers AK74 could mean anything as could SAR-2.

The receiver is not stamped "Avtomat Kalashnikov type"

Dont forget the little "substantially identical" clause.

If it does not have 2 or more features, it is NOT substantially identical to ANY LISTED FIREARM

 

 

Playing devils advocate here now, we all agree that a AR-15 stamped rifle is illegal because AR-15 is illegal.  However, we all agree that any other AR15 style rifle is legal.

What about XM15s and all that?

Oh no, it has an evil number attached to two meaningless letters!  People would argue untill they are blue in the face that its OK though (which it is...)

So why is this any different?

[neon333 0]

Glenn

Are you aware of any stamped "ak74"'s here in Jersey? I've heard nothing but great things about the Waffen Werks rifles and was thinking about getting one from Classic.

[carl_g 568]

Looks like ill go the saiga route.

[Carcano 14]

Glenn

Are you aware of any stamped "ak74"'s here in Jersey? I've heard nothing but great things about the Waffen Werks rifles and was thinking about getting one from Classic.

 

You could get a 74 parts kit and a Nodak Spud receiver that dosen't say AK on it. Sent it to a builder and have them build the rifle for you and so it's NJ legal (pinned brake/no bayonet lug).

 

Parts kit $299.95 (Bulgarian): http://whatacountry.com/bulgarian-ak-74-parts-kit.aspx

New US Made Barrel $134.95: http://whatacountry.com/ak-74-us-made-5-45x39mm-16-barrel-new.aspx

Nodak Spud Receiver NDS-2 (Based on the Bulgarian SLR-105 pattern) $96.00: http://www.nodakspud.com/page2.htm

 

 

Plus a few US compliant parts to keep the ATF happy and your good to go!

 

)

[Dan 177]

The evil feature list says "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic". Notice the word "type". Unless it was stamped on the gun specifically "Avtomat Kalashnikov", it would be subject to the evil feature list to determine if it is "substantially identical". Whether or not showing AK-74 on the receiver is the same as saying "Avtomat Kalashnikov" is another thing. IMO it is a gray area, and would take a legal precedent set in court to determine. To date I am unaware of any court cases that touch this subject.  Personally I believe it does not, and it is up to the NJ dealer.

 

The bottom line is if the NJ list stated "AK-74, AKM, AK-47, etc" specifically, then a receiver marked "AK-74" would most definitely be a no-go. Since the description has the word "type" in it, that implies that the evil feature list must be followed to determine if the gun is indeed a "Avtomat Kalashnikov type" of gun.

[malice95 3]

So this all boils down to two letter and 2 numbers stamped on a piece of metal?

NJ is insane. I emailed Waffen works to see if they would do a run without

that stamp or a different model number.. like WW-74

 

Hopefully they see the value in adding NJ residents as customers. The saiga

conversion looks like a PIA.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

I have seen many in NJ...

[malice95 3]

I have seen many in NJ...

 

A waffen werks one? Or AK's in general?

[johnp 45]

A waffen werks one? Or AK's in general?

 

I believe Glenn is referring to Waffen Werks, they are considered by many to be a top of line AK variant.

 

If you want a real good AK variant buy one from Classic, if you are scared of black helicopters because it has two letters stamped on it, wait for something else to come in stock without evil scary letters.

[Carcano 14]

I believe Glenn is referring to Waffen Werks, they are considered by many to be a top of line AK variant.

 

If you want a real good AK variant buy one from Classic, if you are scared of black helicopters because it has two letters stamped on it, wait for something else to come in stock without evil scary letters.

 

 

You can also build a top of the line AK74 for a little more, http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com/Services.htm

 

Jayson at IGF will build one that's NJ legal, Here is the email he send me back in Jan about doing a NJ legal AK:

 

I can build it for you no problem, basically you need a parts kit, receiver, rivet set, and US compliance parts.

 

I believe most of the receivers being sold by Nodak spud do not have AK anywhere in the model number.  It would be best if you purchased your own parts kit and receiver and send those to me for the build.

 

I keep the Rivet Sets and US parts in stock, the rivet sets are $15, you'd probably need around $60 in US compliance parts.

 

Pricewise for the build it is $495 to build and refinish the rifle in black.

 

If I can get you more info just let me know.

 

Thanks

Jayson

 

[Ian S 22]

Wow $495! I can understand the labor and knowledge involved to do it, that's a fair price. But, you could just about get all the tools you need for that price, learn it inside and out, and still have a bunch of cool tools when you're done.

[johnp 45]

Wow $495! I can understand the labor and knowledge involved to do it, that's a fair price. But, you could just about get all the tools you need for that price, learn it inside and out, and still have a bunch of cool tools when you're done.

 

Yeah for real. $500 is the exact price for all the needed tools, for that money I'd own some sweet tools and take pride in building something myself.

[Carcano 14]

Wow $495! I can understand the labor and knowledge involved to do it, that's a fair price. But, you could just about get all the tools you need for that price, learn it inside and out, and still have a bunch of cool tools when you're done.

 

I agree, but if someone wants "out-of-the-box" rifle the build service might be better. That's why I mentioned it...

 

This is why I never enlisted IGF to do a build for me, but for some people spending the $500 might make for a better option.

 

Tools aren't that expensive, you could also build a 47 and rpk and the tools would pretty much pay for themselves and so would the experience of building something with your own two hands.