First gun for clays. Plunge right into the O/U or not?

[Barms 98]

So I discovered Thunder Mtn and I have caught the clay bug. Now thinking about dedicated sporting SG.

 

Should I start with buying a cheap (maybe even used) long barrel pump and just hone my skills for a long time shooting skeet and trap with single shot only? Or do you experienced guys think I would be better off going right to the O/U anyway since I figure I will do sporting clays (pairs) at some point.

 

Please, No semi suggestions. Im just not into them. And no, I don't want a longer barrel for my tactical HD shotgun.

 

And yes. I understand that O/Us are a VERY expensive proposition.

 

So i would appreciate some good advice from guys who have been in my shoes. Go cheap to start, then buy again? Or go quality right off the bat?

[djg0770 481]

Quality used in my opinion.

[ogfarmer 138]

I have a Steoger 3000STF O/U from Dicks and I really like it. I payed $350 for it.

 

My buddy just got a Stoeger Condor Champion http://www.chuckhawks.com/stoeger_condor_combo.htm

It has vented barrels, 8 chokes and adjustable cheek rest. He payed around $600 @ Tanners in PA. I shot it the other day and it was sweet.

[Ian S 22]

I shot trap for about a year with an 870 pump. For singles trap and for sporting clays, it worked well. When I started shooting doubles trap, I upgraded to an o/u to avoid throwing my first hull at the guy on my right.

 

Last weekend I shot sporting clays, and rather than my trap specific o/u, I used my 870 again. Score? About what I'd shoot with my Citori XT. I shot a station with a Winchester 101 and hit 8 for 8.

 

Point is, it's the "Indian, not the arrow". Shoot what you have or buy what you're comfortable spending. A cheap Savage o/u, Remington pump, Winchester, Browning or Beretta (price range increasing) will give you plenty of enjoyment. Upgrade as you see fit. I've never had anyone tell me I should spend more for a gun, but I have been told to keep practicing. Get something that you expect to last until you're ready to buy again and shoot the hell out of it.

[gunguy1960 2]

I would go with what you have and then ask to try guns while you are there, also fit is very important when you are closer to your choice, keep that in mind, and dont be afraid to consider used, quality guns are designed to handle thousands of rounds and these guns dont see much abuse. I picked up a Browning sporting clays citori, like new, for $800.

[johnp 45]

I caught the clay shooting bug a few months ago as well. And I bought a CZ Mallard O/U and I freakin love it.

 

I shot sporting clays for the first time this morning and being able to pop a few doubles was a lot of fun.

[Ian S 22]

So, to bring this around to a benefits of o/u versus pump thread...

 

If you're shooting doubles trap, it's 50 rounds at a time. Pretty quick. Typically a second round immediately after. So 100 rounds and I found that the pump would start to get lazy and the stock would come off my shoulder and hose me toward the end. An o/u is a thing of beauty when you're just mounting, firing and firing again. For casual sporting clays, you've got time to rest on the walk between stations and it's not such a big deal.

 

At the same price range and everything else being equal, if you're doing a game that moves relatively quickly and will be doing 50 or more rounds (any chance of using it for doubles), I'd vote for the o/u. Cheap is ok. Brand and scroll work only counts when it's sitting in the rack.

[djg0770 481]

Some will disagree about the fit of some of the very cheap ($300) O/U's.

 

I had an inexpensive O/U that fit me poorly. It is and remains the ONLY gun I have traded. Ever.

[Ian S 22]

Some will disagree about the fit of some of the very cheap ($300) O/U's.

I had an inexpensive O/U that fit me poorly. It is and remains the ONLY gun I have traded. Ever.

Really, when shopping for any gun, get your hands on it and make sure you like the fit. There are plenty of New Jersey LGS's that have all levels of shotguns that will be happy to let you shoulder their inventory. Figure a stock fitting may run around $200, so you don't want to have to do that for a gun that costs as much. Unless you really like it.

 

(I don't know where else to say it djg, and I'm all for your 1A, but that avatar is really weirding me out.)

[Damjan 73]

I started shooting clays last October. I used a Mossberg pump and wanted something else.

After a few monthly shoots i got to handle a lot of different shotguns and that helped me orient myself as to what i wanted to buy for this sport. Ended up with a Browning A5 but if semi is not your thing then an OU will do just fine

 

My advice is to come to the monthly meetup at Clinton WMA and try different shotguns.

Look up the event in the Events and Meetups.

[tt-33 8]

whats your budget? a good name brand o/u like a browning citori will last a long long time and its repairable if needed.If you know you are going to shoot trap or double trap by a gun designed for that if its going to be some trap,skeet and sporting clays a field model may be better

[Shawnmoore81 623]

It's up to you. Use what you shoot well with. I have an over under but I don't ever bring it out. I use my versa max. My father in law dropped all kinds of money on some fancy skb shotgun that you can switch from one barrel to two. I tried it and shoot better with my Remington. I swear those guns are a status symbol.

[rtquig 45]

I've been shooting trap for a little under 2 years. I started with a pump 870, and did well with that gun. About 2 months ago I attended a 2 day training at a 4-H camp to be able to teach kids how to shoot shotgun. The nice part of the training was that we got to shoot a variety of shotguns from O/U, S/S, pump, and a semi. I think you need to just take your time and try out the variety of shotguns out there. I was headed for an O/U, but decided on the semi as I will want to shoot skeet and other sporting clays in the future. Every week at the range someone has a used (usually good condition) trap gun they are willing to sell. Good luck with your choice.

[Jon 264]

I've been shooting shotguns since I was 9 years old. I have shot O/U's from cheap stoegers up to $2500 guns(don't recall the name). I still can't shoot the o/u's worth a damn, but put a fuddy pump or semi-auto in my hands, and I slay clays like it's my job. Make sure you try the gun before you buy it.

[Ian S 22]

I was headed for an O/U, but decided on the semi as I will want to shoot skeet and other sporting clays in the future.

How did those games lead you to a semi?

[Night Prowler 0]

As DamJanBlues said look at going to the next shotgun shoot out in Clinton. Great group and loads of different guns. I have a Mosseberg 200 pump from the 50's that I picked up for 125 and I love the thing.

[RobertJames 14]

I started shooting clays last October. I used a Mossberg pump and wanted something else.

After a few monthly shoots i got to handle a lot of different shotguns and that helped me orient myself as to what i wanted to buy for this sport. Ended up with a Browning A5 but if semi is not your thing then an OU will do just fine

 

My advice is to come to the monthly meetup at Clinton WMA and try different shotguns.

Look up the event in the Events and Meetups.

Great big plus one to this.  Come to the shootout, everyone is super friendly and most people will offer to let you shoot their weapon.  Find the one that fits you best.  

 

Don't be so quick to knock a semi.  If you're going to be shooting a lot, the reduced recoil and quick follow up shots are nice to have.  

[kirk2022 43]

All guns are made to shoot. The shooter (you) are the final link. Those fancy 3,4,5,6 thousand dollar guns are great for lookie here boys.  Myself I have A  Stoeger STF3000 from Dicks. Shoot Clays and trap with it.

Last weekend we went out to the trap range. Windy I mean steady 25 MPH winds. The first round we stepped up to shoot, I had A guy say to me, You want to borrow A gun? I just looked at him and said nope I've got one.  When that rd was done I hit 21 out of 25 targets. then went on to shoot A 22, 20 and 19 then called it A day. Man I wished I had one of them there fancy guns.

Just get something that feels good and go have fun. Thats what its all about.

[W2MC 1,699]

I found I can hit better with an o/u...When I shoot trap, I'm currently using a Winchester X-Pert 96 (it's a 101 without the embellishments).  

 

One thing I just found out is the gun doesn't like the cheap 'gun club' loads.  I bought 6 boxes of "handicap" loads (since they were out of the cheap stuff), and shooting back-to back rounds of trap, I found that I was missing the shots with the 'gun club' I was hitting with the 'handicap'.

 

Learn something new every day... 

[lunker 274]

If you go over/under get quality. There are New Cz's, used SKB (russian), used Winchester, Berettas and Brownings out there you can get for around a grand. A Stoeger is a good gun for hunting, but it will not withstand the abuse of thousands of round like a quality gun. Google Stoeger Condor firing pin or go to Shotgunworld.com and read up from people who know. Also, I wouldn't discount autoloaders too quickly. Anthony Matarese won Sporting Clay championship with a Beretta 390.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

If you go over/under get quality. There are New Cz's, used SKB (russian), used Winchester, Berettas and Brownings out there you can get for around a grand. A Stoeger is a good gun for hunting, but it will not withstand the abuse of thousands of round like a quality gun. Google Stoeger Condor firing pin or go to Shotgunworld.com and read up from people who know. Also, I wouldn't discount autoloaders too quickly. Anthony Matarese won Sporting Clay championship with a Beretta 390.

If you take classes at Anthony's club and use their gun they hand you a beretta. Might be a nice way to try one out. Classes are $70 but they do a groupon or amazon, one of them. Search m&m sporting clays

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[lunker 274]

If you take classes at Anthony's club and use their gun they hand you a beretta. Might be a nice way to try one out. Classes are $70 but they do a groupon or amazon, one of them. Search m&m sporting clays

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

Shotguns are funny. There are folks with $300 Mossbergs that love their guns and think people with fancy over-unders are just snobs. There are the prestige shooters who (really are snobs) want a several thousand dollar gun and would never consider owning the Mossberg. I have seen plenty of times when the former outshoots the latter, and it is somewhat satisfying. But in the end it is all about the tool for the job. A quality over/under from Beretta or Browning, etc is meant to go tens of thousands of rounds before needing repair. Most (and I will catch grief for saying most) production shotgun will break down and need repairs before the good over/unders. They are not made to the same standard as the better guns. It's not a knock, it's just that you should be getting a much better gun when you spend a thousand or more dollars extra on it over another gun. I do like the fact that I can put grease on the hinge of my over/under once every several months and run a bore brush through the barrel once every three  or four outings or so. That is the maintenance.

 

So, if you are considering a quality over/under... I would suggest shooting what you have  for now, and saving for a while and getting a gun you will never outgrow. The most bang for the buck in a "B" over-under is the Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon I. Joel Etchen guns has the sporting models for $1850 shipped. It has all the attributes of Beretta models that cost a thousand dollars more, just without the fancy engraving and fancy wood on the higher end 680 series guns (686, 687). And it is pretty darn close to the model that costs two thousand more (682 series minus palm swell, replaceable shoulders, and fancier barrels).  And the Berettas and Brownings are the best at maintaining their resale value in case you fall out of love with the sport.

[Parker 213]

So, if you are considering a quality over/under... I would suggest shooting what you have  for now, and saving for a while and getting a gun you will never outgrow. The most bang for the buck in a "B" over-under is the Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon I. Joel Etchen guns has the sporting models for $1850 shipped. It has all the attributes of Beretta models that cost a thousand dollars more, just without the fancy engraving and fancy wood on the higher end 680 series guns (686, 687). And it is pretty darn close to the model that costs two thousand more (682 series minus palm swell, replaceable shoulders, and fancier barrels).  And the Berettas and Brownings are the best at maintaining their resale value in case you fall out of love with the sport.

+1 to Dave's comment.

 

If you are shooting at Thunder Mtn., there are folks trading-up for new shotguns there all the time. So, there are often a few target guns in the used rack there. There once was a time if Bob knew you, he'd let you take a used or a new gun out for a trial on the range. Of course, the premise was that you might buy it if you liked it. He's astute enough to know that "gun fit" is most important for people who are serious about target shooting.

[Barms 98]

Great answers above.

 

Now here is where I show my ignorance. I read this:

 

whats your budget? a good name brand o/u like a browning citori will last a long long time and its repairable if needed.If you know you are going to shoot trap or double trap by a gun designed for that if its going to be some trap,skeet and sporting clays a field model may be better

 

And I just automatically think that for sporting clays a pump is not good. Do guys handle the pump when doing "report" pairs? I only actually considered the two barrel thing because I enjoyed the "report" sporting clays. Im not really even thinking about true pairs yet. If that is the case then perhaps pump is a good way to start. HOWEVER, I am hearing the advice about the quality situation. I mean I will do 100 clays every time I go so I could be putting a beating on a "regular" gun. One thing I'm clear on though is that I will take a class or two from a pro and then determine what I'm getting myself into for the long run.

[rtquig 45]

How did those games lead you to a semi?

Trap is just one shot. I have done doubles with my 870 pump, but see that it would be much easier while keeping an eye on the second bird and not having to manually eject a load. Skeet coming from each direction and just having to worry about the clay and the trigger made it an easy decision. There is also the possibility of waterfowl hunting so I thought it logical to go with a semi.

[lunker 274]

Great answers above.

 

Now here is where I show my ignorance. I read this:

 

whats your budget? a good name brand o/u like a browning citori will last a long long time and its repairable if needed.If you know you are going to shoot trap or double trap by a gun designed for that if its going to be some trap,skeet and sporting clays a field model may be better

 

And I just automatically think that for sporting clays a pump is not good. Do guys handle the pump when doing "report" pairs? I only actually considered the two barrel thing because I enjoyed the "report" sporting clays. Im not really even thinking about true pairs yet. If that is the case then perhaps pump is a good way to start. HOWEVER, I am hearing the advice about the quality situation. I mean I will do 100 clays every time I go so I could be putting a beating on a "regular" gun. One thing I'm clear on though is that I will take a class or two from a pro and then determine what I'm getting myself into for the long run.

Again with the questions that require long answers.

A pump is great for singles trap because you are only taking one shot. A pump is OK for doubles trap because the birds are coming at fixed angles, making it more easily repeatable. A pump is a disadvantage at skeet because there are often bang-bang type shots when shooting simultaneous pairs. These are hard enough with a pump or over/under. And a pump is a disadvantage in Sporting Clays, in my opinion, because of all the different clay presentations. Racking is distracting from getting onto the second bird that can be coming from a completely different direction than the first.

As for what kind of shotgun to get, another bit of controversy. Trap guns are sort of specialty devices. They generally have high ribs and combs and shoot high. This means you can point the barrel at a target, while still seeing the target, and hit it. This is because (unless you wait way too long) targets are always rising in trap. So it makes sense to have a gun that will shoot higher than what you are pointing at. Field guns shoot to point of aim. You cover the target with the barrel, and shoot.

Now skeet is a much different game. Shots are crossing left to right, and vice versa. They are not rising. Occasionally they are dropping if you take a real late shot. More often than not though, they are flat. So a flatter shooting gun is optimal.

And Sporting Clays is all over the place. You can have rising and falling shots. They can be coming at you, going away from you, crossing, quartering towards or away from you. In an instance like this, a flatter shooting Sporting gun is also preferable. So here is the big question... Which should you get? I don't know. There are plenty of people who use trap guns for all disciplines, and adjust on dropping shots. I had a trap gun and decided to sell it (Shocking, yes? ). So I went the other way. I felt like I wanted a jack of all trades gun and got a sporting gun for all disciplines (Sporting Clays and 5 Stand being my favorite). Of course I was flubbing the easy straight risers today at Central Jersey Trap because my gun shoots straight and not high. I need to raise the comb just a bit.

One last thing. I was talking with the gunsmith at the Beretta shop in NYC, and he was honest with me (i.e. giving up a thousand or more dollars on a potential sale). He told me that if my only goal was to break clays, then I should get the Beretta 390/400 AutoLoader. If I wanted something that was a point of pride/historical, etc then I could get a Beretta over/under. I appreciated his honesty and have come around to autoloaders for clay sports. One day I might own one.

[Night Prowler 0]

Come to the next Shotgun shoot out in Clinton. Loads of advice available there as well as trying some different guns out.

[Barms 98]

Now I just realized i have a lot to learn. And funny you just mentioned the "shoots higher" thing. Because I finally started getting good when I started aiming BELOW the birds (and this on trap as the clays were rising). So maybe it was the gun

 

I had no idea about the different angles of the loads coming out. I will take some proffesional lessons and then report back.

 

 

 

 

 

Again with the questions that require long answers.

A pump is great for singles trap because you are only taking one shot. A pump is OK for doubles trap because the birds are coming at fixed angles, making it more easily repeatable. A pump is a disadvantage at skeet because there are often bang-bang type shots when shooting simultaneous pairs. These are hard enough with a pump or over/under. And a pump is a disadvantage in Sporting Clays, in my opinion, because of all the different clay presentations. Racking is distracting from getting onto the second bird that can be coming from a completely different direction than the first.

As for what kind of shotgun to get, another bit of controversy. Trap guns are sort of specialty devices. They generally have high ribs and combs and shoot high. This means you can point the barrel at a target, while still seeing the target, and hit it. This is because (unless you wait way too long) targets are always rising in trap. So it makes sense to have a gun that will shoot higher than what you are pointing at. Field guns shoot to point of aim. You cover the target with the barrel, and shoot.

Now skeet is a much different game. Shots are crossing left to right, and vice versa. They are not rising. Occasionally they are dropping if you take a real late shot. More often than not though, they are flat. So a flatter shooting gun is optimal.

And Sporting Clays is all over the place. You can have rising and falling shots. They can be coming at you, going away from you, crossing, quartering towards or away from you. In an instance like this, a flatter shooting Sporting gun is also preferable. So here is the big question... Which should you get? I don't know. There are plenty of people who use trap guns for all disciplines, and adjust on dropping shots. I had a trap gun and decided to sell it (Shocking, yes? ). So I went the other way. I felt like I wanted a jack of all trades gun and got a sporting gun for all disciplines (Sporting Clays and 5 Stand being my favorite). Of course I was flubbing the easy straight risers today at Central Jersey Trap because my gun shoots straight and not high. I need to raise the comb just a bit.

One last thing. I was talking with the gunsmith at the Beretta shop in NYC, and he was honest with me (i.e. giving up a thousand or more dollars on a potential sale). He told me that if my only goal was to break clays, then I should get the Beretta 390/400 AutoLoader. If I wanted something that was a point of pride/historical, etc then I could get a Beretta over/under. I appreciated his honesty and have come around to autoloaders for clay sports. One day I might own one.

[Agent_Smith 1]

I bought an over-under as my first shotgun. Love it. Now I want a pump, too. And then I'll want a semi, and then I'll want one in 20 gauge.

 

But really, I shoot just a little trap, and I suck at it. It's actually embarrassing to have a nice gun and not be that good. But I love my Silver Pigeon I, and I will never regret buying it. If I bought a Mossberg 500 first, it would have been $1,000 less, and I would have loved it for different reasons.  

[Soju 153]

The good news is that the old 'snobs' who would look down on new shooters and people using inexpensive shotguns seem to be dying out (or they've came around and became more accepting). I've started to shoot a fair amount of trap, and despite the majority of the shooters being older guys, there are a lot of younger people shooting and most are friendly and don't give you that nasty look because you brought an 870 or 600 dollar O/U. 

 

I watched a guy with a $40,000 shotgun get out shot someone with a 20 gauge and shorter barrel SxS. There isn't much point in saying that besides good shooters can hit with anything.