reloaded rounds do not fit in barrel - Help

[NJSigfan 218]

hello everyone -

 

So I managed to get some alone time to work up some reloads and I've run into hopefully a minor road block....the rounds are very snug in the barrel - Thoughts?  HELP?

 

Some facts:

 

experience: reloading newb - literally these are my first 20 reloads

Press: Progressive, Lee Loadmaster

Bullets: Extreme copper plated

Weight: 200 gr SWC

Powder: Unique

Grains: 4.9 - 5.1 grains

Primers: CCI large pistol

Brass: Federal (1x fired, but I originally purchase new and picked up the brass)

Tumbled and cleaned and lubed with one shot

Dies: Lee Carbine 3 die set. 

Station one - Lee universal decapper

station two - lee sizing die with decapping pin removed

station three - power measure

Station four - bullet seat die

Station five - empty

Process - before loading I set the dies according to the videos on the Lee site.  Primer is flush or slightly below flush, loaded 2 dummy rounds to measure bullet seat depth and fit into the barrel.  Those rounds measure 1.269 and fit freely falling out without assistance. This morning  I went slow, I weighed each case after the primers were added and then again after the powder was loaded.  Each case with powder weighed 4.9 - 5.1 grains.  A vast majority weighed at 5.0 or 5.1.  I measured overall length of each round to be less than the 1.275 max overall length.  After I was done, I removed the barrel from my SA 5.25 .45ACP and the 1st round fit and fell out freely.  the next 19 were very snug or just did not fit.  They fall into the barrel right to what I think is the old crimp line. 

 

So my question, what did I do wrong?  did I miss a step?  Do I need a crimp die in station 5?  I was under the impression that the bullet seat die would also crimp. 

 

HELP...I really enjoyed the hour while I made the rounds and was feeling pretty proud of myself but that was quickly buzz killed when they didn't fit....

 

 

[Mikeythumbs 1]

Recheck oal of rounds that didn't fit. Maybe you didn't lock down the dies enough and one of the settings moved enough to make the round too long or you are not getting enough crimp

[snake913 0]

If you see a bulge in the ares where the bullet sits in the case

Remove the primer extractor pin and run one round through the sizer die, then check the fit

[NJSigfan 218]

Recheck oal of rounds that didn't fit. Maybe you didn't lock down the dies enough and one of the settings moved enough to make the round too long or you are not getting enough crimp

I was checking the OAL of each round as I was reloading.  Using a digital caliper I got from midway - Frankfort.  will the seating die do the crimp too? it there a way to set that?  maybe I missed that step, but I thought bt turning the cap crimp and depth were equally set?

 

If you see a bulge in the ares where the bullet sits in the case

Remove the primer extractor pin and run one round through the sizer die, then check the fit

 

No visual bulges on the case.  Can I do this on a "live" or do I need to remove the bullet and powder?  will that ruin the bullet?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

"So my question, what did I do wrong?  did I miss a step?  Do I need a crimp die in station 5?  I was under the impression that the bullet seat die would also crimp."

 

I hope you have read up all you can and then some..... Does the die have a built in crimp for the seating die? did you set up the crimp in the seating die? and yes you need to remove the bell on the case... but you don't necessarily need to put a crimp on it. run your finger along the bullet and down the case if you feel an edge you have not removed the bell.

 

Case bulge is normal around the bullet on most pistol rounds... your squeezing a bullet into a case that has a smaller diameter, hence why you bell the case mouth and this is also why you don't really need a crimp but MUST remove the bell.. it should be very very minimal though.

 

FYI, if your using an auto pistol, just because they freely fall into the chamber doesn't mean they will freely load into the chamber either. They load on an angle and the edge of a case bell will get caught, which is why i put a very minimal crimp on all my pistol rounds.

[NJSigfan 218]

"So my question, what did I do wrong?  did I miss a step?  Do I need a crimp die in station 5?  I was under the impression that the bullet seat die would also crimp."

 

I hope you have read up all you can and then some..... Does the die have a built in crimp for the seating die? did you set up the crimp in the seating die? and yes you need to remove the bell on the case... but you don't necessarily need to put a crimp on it. run your finger along the bullet and down the case if you feel an edge you have not removed the bell.

 

Case bulge is normal around the bullet on most pistol rounds... your squeezing a bullet into a case that has a smaller diameter, hence why you bell the case mouth. it should be very very minimal though.

Hey jackdawack, yes, I've done a fair amount of reading - both online and in hard copy. 

 

this is the die set I'm using. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/661032/lee-carbide-3-die-set-45-acp

 

I'll go check the rounds again for the "bell" but why would the first round fit and not the ones following?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

because not all your cases are going to be the exact same length, and some may get more or less crimp. if you go too light on the crimp some may not get enough. Also, progressives throw a curve ball if your not loading on all stations if you set it up with one round at a time and then switch to full progressive, you may get some flex in the shell plate. Also, make sure your putting the same amount of pressure on each down stroke.

 

Man they really make you guess on that one! it mentions being able to put a crimp on it....

 

The way you set up the crimp is to adjust the die itself up and down in the press, and then the seating adjustment is in the middle of the die... ITS A PITA! which is why people opt for a separate taper die. if you need to adjust the taper, you need to then reset the bullet seating depth.

 

All you should have to do is screw the die in maybe a 1/8-1/4 turn, and then unscrew the bullet seater the same amount. Just check and make sure the crimp is minimal and your OAL is correct. I measure the case around the bullet, and then i measure the case mouth, if its slightly smaller your GTG. Most people for pistol will put a small bell on the case and a small crimp on.. basically just enough to get the bullet in the case and just enough to get the cartridge into the chamber... it puts less stress on the case mouth and lets you re-use them more.

 

I would use the powder through expander! expand and drop your charge! frees up a station for both a lock out die and a taper die.. lee sells good taper dies and there cheap. Any reason why your using a universal decapper?

[NJSigfan 218]

Jack - I opted for the universal since most of the videos show and state to use.  other than that, no real reason.  I'll look into the lock out die..

 

I so went back and reviewed everything and the dies were set right and had not moved but it turns out I was slightly shorting the throw just like you thought.  I readjusted the bullet seating dies by 3/4 turn deeper and adjusted the seating depth according.  all rounds now fit and fall freely from the barrel.  OAL is 1.255 which is less than MAX OAL length but shorter than my original setting.

 

Thanks for the help/

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Excellent... it's these little hang ups where you learn the most. just check, double check and check again! 1.255 should be a good safe OAL

[NJSigfan 218]

absolutely!!  I learned a lot.  now to get to the range to see how they work. 

thanks for the help! 

[Cowboy6373 0]

Sigfan, It sounds like you got a taper crimp accomplished as that is what is required. That said, overcrimping can cause it's own problems, like light primer strikes. The reason for this is that straight wall cases headspace on the case mouth. If you over crimp, the case can go past the shoulder in the barrel, effectively moving the case head from being snug against the breach face. I know I mentioned that I'm right down the road from you in Flemington, so if you need some help shoot me a PM. Glad to have a look.

[Maksim 1,504]

Post a picture of the round from the top and the side.

[PeteF 1,044]

Get a cartridge gauge such as:

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/595577/lyman-max-cartridge-gage-9mm-luger

 

You can very quickly diagnose any problems you may have.

 

I use extensively when setting up a new load/oal/crimp setting.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

The Lee dies you bought are carbide, so in .45acp (a straight wall, low pressure cartridge) no lube is necessary.

It's ok to deprime with the sizing die as long as the brass has been tumbled shiny to remove crud that would get onto the die and then scratch every subsequent piece of brass

Use the seating die to just set the bullet depth.

Acquire the fourth die (the missing one!) "Lee Factory Crimp" and set it to crimp the loaded round to your specs.

Acquire and use a full length cartridge guage for every caliber you reload.

You should test (by guaging) every piece of ammo you make prior to packaging it for future use.

You must be the Quality Control Manager of your reloading venture.

Your life (and limbs) and those of others who would use your ammo depends on it.

[Old School 611]

Get a cartridge gauge such as:

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/595577/lyman-max-cartridge-gage-9mm-luger

 

You can very quickly diagnose any problems you may have.

 

I use extensively when setting up a new load/oal/crimp setting.

 

After having one of the most embarrassing experiences I use one of these for every round before it goes in the box.

 

http://www.egwguns.com/chamber-checkers/7-hole-ammo-chamber-checkers/

 

Embarrassing because I've been loading forever and Load impecable ammo.

 

My guess is your crimp is bulging.  Take those calipers and measure the diameter of you loaded round from the web/head all the way to the case mouth and see if it is larger at the case mouth.

 

The guage mentioned above is good but not what I think you need in this case.

 

If you need help just PM me.

[HuntingPaper 62]

...

[NJSigfan 218]

On 6/2/2013 at 5:16 PM, Maksim said:

Post a picture of the round from the top and the side.

Mak. Here are the pics

 

  

On 6/2/2013 at 5:14 PM, Cowboy6373 said:

Sigfan, It sounds like you got a taper crimp accomplished as that is what is required. That said, overcrimping can cause it's own problems, like light primer strikes. The reason for this is that straight wall cases headspace on the case mouth. If you over crimp, the case can go past the shoulder in the barrel, effectively moving the case head from being snug against the breach face. I know I mentioned that I'm right down the road from you in Flemington, so if you need some help shoot me a PM. Glad to have a look.

Cowboy, how is this coming Friday? In the evening?

 

[henrym 19]

From the side that looks a little like a roll crimp. My tapers leave almost a 90 degree shoulder at the case wall.

[hiker88 22]

As Oldschool said use your caliber to measure the diameter uniformity of your reload.

 

I use a progressive Hornady LNL and I have separate bullet seating and taper crimping stations when loading 45 acp. It makes life a little simpler.  

[hiker88 22]

From the side that looks a little like a roll crimp. My tapers leave almost a 90 degree shoulder at the case wall.

Exactly my thoughts

[NJSigfan 218]

From the side that looks a little like a roll crimp. My tapers leave almost a 90 degree shoulder at the case wall.

So now what? War needs to be adjusted? Are the loaded rounds trashed?

[WVisHome 0]

Add a case trimmer to trim all cases to the same exact length...that should solve the crimp problem, no?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

yeah, looks like a roll crimp. The issue is that the .45 dies are also used for revolver rounds, hence the roll crimp.. For safe measure i would pull them, better safe then sorry. Like stated a taper crimp will leave the case wall nice and flat if you do it right, not rounded off. You could probably pull off a very very light roll crimp, but why worry about it...

[Old School 611]

You should NEVER have a "roll crimp" on a rimless cartridge since it headspaces on the mouth of the case.

[WVisHome 0]

Am I correct in understanding roll crimps are for revolvers?

[NJSigfan 218]

Ok. Thanks...so now how is this corrected? Are the loads trashed?

 

I'm assuming that the die is set incorrectly moving the crimp from a taper to roll?

[Old School 611]

Am I correct in understanding roll crimps are for revolvers?

 

for anything that doesn't headspace on the case mouth

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Add a case trimmer to trim all cases to the same exact length...that should solve the crimp problem, no?

Once you get dialed in there really isn't a reason for pistol.. the cases dont vary by that much, but going to light or to heavy will bring out the variances and cause feeding issues..

[WVisHome 0]

Gotcha. I've only ever reloaded rifle (no crimp) and helped my dad load .41 mag and .357 mag. 

[NJSigfan 218]

So, basically if I'm understanding correctly, I should pull the bullets, resize the brass and start over. Ok. I'll do that over the week and have more info later this week.

 

I'll also measure each bullet to gauge an average.

 

Case gauge in my shopping cart now, just waiting to see what else I may need before hitting buy...

 

A big thanks to everyone for the help so far. It is truly appreciate.