Long gun in trunk Question

[PeteF 1,044]

Say I decide to take my lunch break at a range and want to shoot my .22 rifle. 

 

Have FID, Gun unloaded,  ammo separate.  Is it legal to leave the rifle in the trunk while I'm at work, take it to the range at lunch, then put it back in the trunk, finish work and head home?

 

[johnp 45]

If you have an FPID card in your possession, yes.

[TheDon 3]

Good to go if you have a FPID card. 

Long guns only.  Do NOT do as you describe with a pistol. 

[plode 0]

As per the NJ state statute: only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

What "reasonable" is, no one knows- it is up to the court to decide.  Unless you want to be the guinea pig, I wouldn't advise it. 

The law doesn't differentiate on transportation of handguns/long guns.  You're supposed to drive to the range, shoot, and go directly home.

 

From NJSP Website:

• • Shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

   

 

[TheDon 3]

As per the NJ state statute: only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

What "reasonable" is, no one knows- it is up to the court to decide.  Unless you want to be the guinea pig, I wouldn't advise it. 

The law doesn't differentiate on transportation of handguns/long guns.  You're supposed to drive to the range, shoot, and go directly home.

This is not the exception he is using.  He would be using the FPID exception as stated in 2C:39-5 c.

[vladtepes 1,060]

As per the NJ state statute: only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

What "reasonable" is, no one knows- it is up to the court to decide.  Unless you want to be the guinea pig, I wouldn't advise it. 

The law doesn't differentiate on transportation of handguns/long guns.  You're supposed to drive to the range, shoot, and go directly home.

 

From NJSP Website:

 

 

in NJ a FID card supersedes that with long guns.. in that if you have a FID card you can technically drive around with an unloaded long gun in your trunk as much as you want.. range or no range..

 

the ONLY concern I have is to what extent the vehicle is a gun within his control.... if he is driving around in the car and has a long gun in the trunk unloaded.. with an FID card... he is OK.. but what if he leaves the car in a Newark parking lot for a week... then he is no longer in immediate control of the weapon... I am not sure that there is a specific law to govern leaving the gun in your car unattended... and I am not sure if something happened you would not be in trouble.. 

[plode 0]

Ok, I wasn't aware of that exemption. The laws in this state are so convoluted(tell me something I don't already know ).

[TheDon 3]

in NJ a FID card supersedes that with long guns.. in that if you have a FID card you can technically drive around with an unloaded long gun in your trunk as much as you want.. range or no range..

 

the ONLY concern I have is to what extent the vehicle is a gun within his control.... if he is driving around in the car and has a long gun in the trunk unloaded.. with an FID card... he is OK.. but what if he leaves the car in a Newark parking lot for a week... then he is no longer in immediate control of the weapon... I am not sure that there is a specific law to govern leaving the gun in your car unattended... and I am not sure if something happened you would not be in trouble.. 

There is one IMPORTANT exception to "drive around with an unloaded long gun in your trunk as much as you want".  If you drive onto a school property, its a crime in the 2nd degree with a mandatory prison term.  

[PeteF 1,044]

the ONLY concern I have is to what extent the vehicle is a gun within his control.... if he is driving around in the car and has a long gun in the trunk unloaded.. with an FID card... he is OK.. but what if he leaves the car in a Newark parking lot for a week... then he is no longer in immediate control of the weapon... I am not sure that there is a specific law to govern leaving the gun in your car unattended... and I am not sure if something happened you would not be in trouble..

 

This is exactly what I was unsure of. If you leave the car, are you breaking the law?

This would also carry over to stopping for breakfast on the way tp a deer hunt with a shotgun in the trunk.

Does leaving the car / longarm break the law?

[TheDon 3]

This is exactly what I was unsure of. If you leave the car, are you breaking the law?

This would also carry over to stopping for breakfast on the way tp a deer hunt with a shotgun in the trunk.

Does leaving the car / longarm break the law?

I am not a lawyer.  But IMHO, as long as the trunk of the car is locked and you have the key is in your posession, you are in control of the rifle. 

If it is illegal to stop for something to eat with rifles in the trunk, then I guess I am a dangerous criminal. 

[Arbelest 29]

Say I decide to take my lunch break at a range and want to shoot my .22 rifle. 

 

Have FID, Gun unloaded,  ammo separate.  Is it legal to leave the rifle in the trunk while I'm at work, take it to the range at lunch, then put it back in the trunk, finish work and head home?

Your good to go as long as their long guns

[Vini 0]

This is not the exception he is using.  He would be using the FPID exception as stated in 2C:39-5 c.

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not sure about that.

2C:39-5 c. is not en exception. 

 

 

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5 

Unlawful possession of weapons. 

 

c. Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without 

having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, 

is guilty of a crime of the third degree. 

(2) Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or 

sotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree. 

 

http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/edpm/sections/statutes_criminal_1213.pdf  PAGE 88 (2012 edition)

 

 

I don't see a reason why N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5 c. should overrule N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6 g. especially since  2C:39-5 c is about unlawful possession and has nothing to do with exemptions or transportation.

 

2C:39-6 

Exemptions.  

 

g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.  

 

http://www.gtpd.org/pdf%20files/New%20Jersey%20Firearms%20Laws.pdf   PAGE 204 (2000 Edition)

 

 

 

Also there is new bill SENATE, No. 2721 Sponsored by Senator JEFF VAN DREW 

4/25/2013 Introduced in the Senate, Referred to Senate Law and Public Safety Committee

5/9/2013 Reported from Senate Committee with Amendments, 2nd Reading

 

"Clarifies definition of reasonably necessary deviation when legally transporting firearm or weapon in motor vehicle."

 

Reasonably necessary  deviations shall include, but not be limited to, collecting and discharging passengers; purchasing fuel1 , food1 and beverages1, medicine, or other supplies; using a restroom; or  contending with an emergency situation

 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2012/Bills/S3000/2721_R1.PDF   PAGE 8

 

 

 

So, if we are lucky and No. 2721 passes, NJ law will directly allow as to do certain simple and completely logical things, but taking firearm to work etc will still be in grey area, IMHO. 

 

 

P.S. Just realized the research on this matter took almost 2 hours

[ChrisJM981 924]

Why isn't this thread locked yet? Read your friggin card. "... is hereby granted permission to purchase and carry rifles and shotguns pursuant to provisions of N.J.S. 2C:58-3 and 2C:39-5 with amendments and supplements."

[ogfarmer 138]

Why isn't this thread locked yet? Read your friggin card. "... is hereby granted permission to purchase and carry rifles and shotguns pursuant to provisions of N.J.S. 2C:58-3 and 2C:39-5 with amendments and supplements."

the newer cards only say

 

is hereby granted permission to purchase rifles and shotguns pursuant to provisions of N.J.S 2C:58-3 with ammendments and supplements.

The carry part has been removed from the card text. Is your card older?

[ChrisJM981 924]

Removed? Oh that's bs. Mine was issued in April 2007.

[kman 56]

Make sure any .22 ammo you have in the trunk is NOT hollow point. The rifle in your trunk might be legal but the bulk pack of hollow point plinking ammo is 550 counts of second degree felonies.

 

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[PK90 3,570]

If one were issued a FPID, one may transport a long gun (or even strap it across your back and walk around) anywhere not prohibited.  The card doesn't even need to be in your possession.

[TheDon 3]

If one were issued a FPID, one may transport a long gun (or even strap it across your back and walk around) anywhere not prohibited.  The card doesn't even need to be in your possession.

 

You will be good to go on firearms charges, but not the charges for menacing and causing a public disturbance.  :-D

[Vini 0]

If one were issued a FPID, one may transport a long gun (or even strap it across your back and walk around) anywhere not prohibited.  The card doesn't even need to be in your possession.

 

You will be good to go on firearms charges, but not the charges for menacing and causing a public disturbance.  :-D

 

Sorry guys, but I don't buy it. Unless "one may transport a long gun anywhere not prohibited" stands only for exceptions as per 2C:39-6. 

I'm no expert, but I know how to do research - your statements go against everything I've learned (and looks like I'm not alone in my beliefs). 

[PK90 3,570]

The exceptions are for only if you do not have a FPID. 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Sorry guys, but I don't buy it. Unless "one may transport a long gun anywhere not prohibited" stands only for exceptions as per 2C:39-6. 

I'm no expert, but I know how to do research - your statements go against everything I've learned (and looks like I'm not alone in my beliefs). 

 

There's nuthin' "to buy".  Don't over-think these things.  There's three sets of rules in NJ:  1.  Rules with NJFID.   2.  Rules without NJFID.  3.  FOPA while transporting to or through NJ.  Yes they are convoluted, and yes they sometimes appear to be somewhat contradictory until you get the "jist" of them.  

 

With 44 years of firearms experience I KNOW what I CAN and what I CAN'T do!  Except for diving to a School, Military Installation or some other Federal jurisdiction, you can drive around all of NJ with an unloaded long gun in your trunk provided you have a valid NJFID ON RECORD (it doesn't have to be on your person, but if you want to buy pistol ammo on sale somewhere in your travels, it's required for that).  Those folks that don't have a NJFID, including non-residents, are still allowed to transport their unloaded long guns for legal purposes such as to a range, sanctioned Match, gunsmith, dealer, buyer's house, to home, etc.

 

Whether or not you wish to believe Paul (who by the way is a FFL!) and I, or remain like Chicken Little is entirely up to you.  May I suggest that you visit a Private Club's Range(s) to go see what informed Competitors are doing and how they do it.  It will enlighten you and put all of your concerns to rest.

 

Dave

Shootist

[Vini 0]

Thanks Dave and Paul. 

I hope you are correct - would make my hobby much easier.  

I have MUCH less experience with NJ firearm related laws and could fall under widespread misconception. 

My FPID doesn't have "carry".

 

I checked the New Jersey Code of Criminal Justice again, trying to see it from prospective of being newly implemented in 80s when FPID was new and forced on people. 

If seen from that prospective and use of term "possession" (not defined in Chapter 39 definitions, therefore assumed to be same as "have") in 2C:39-5 c. goes only* for possession outside of ones home/property/place of business - your interpretation might be correct. 

The way law is written - there is room for different interpretations. 

We are in NJ - state where one judge with his own agenda can instruct jury to ignore clearly written exceptions (Brian Aitken case) and ruin someone's life.

One can't be too careful here. 

 

* While in 2C:39-5 a.  term "possession" means - obviously - "having" machine gun under any circumstances.  

[Tack Tickle 0]

Brian Aitken did not have an FPID card.

 

PK90 (Paul) is an FFL. He is not going to give you bad information. You said it yourself you have 2 hours researching this. We have THOUSANDS of hours researching this. Do what YOU want to do and YOU feel comfortable with.

 

Thanks Dave and Paul. 

I hope you are correct - would make my hobby much easier.  

I have MUCH less experience with NJ firearm related laws and could fall under widespread misconception. 

My FPID doesn't have "carry".

 

I checked the New Jersey Code of Criminal Justice again, trying to see it from prospective of being newly implemented in 80s when FPID was new and forced on people. 

If seen from that prospective and use of term "possession" (not defined in Chapter 39 definitions, therefore assumed to be same as "have") in 2C:39-5 c. goes only* for possession outside of ones home/property/place of business - your interpretation might be correct. 

The way law is written - there is room for different interpretations. 

We are in NJ - state where one judge with his own agenda can instruct jury to ignore clearly written exceptions (Brian Aitken case) and ruin someone's life.

One can't be too careful here. 

 

* While in 2C:39-5 a.  term "possession" means - obviously - "having" machine gun under any circumstances.  

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Vini,

 

I don't try to quote Chapter and Verse of the convoluted 2C Firearms Statutes, or get into heated discussions about where a comma is.  I just KNOW what I CAN do and what I CAN'T do.  In 44 years of doin' it, I've somehow done it RIGHT enough to stay outta trouble. Spend a day at a Private Club.  I'll guest you into one I belong to, or you can simply show-up at a scheduled League event that's open to the public.  Watch what members say and do, how they transport, unpack and re-pack.  How SAFE they are in their gun handling skills.  How much FUN they let themselves have and how many friends are there if they need help.  How they stop to take a leak, get something to eat, buy gasoline, and just behave like normal rational citizens living / surviving in this crazy State of NJ!

[Newtonian 453]

Make sure any .22 ammo you have in the trunk is NOT hollow point. The rifle in your trunk might be legal but the bulk pack of hollow point plinking ammo is 550 counts of second degree felonies.

 

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

I thought HP ammo was ok for target shooting, but not self defense. If it's ok for target shooting, how can you not bring it to the range?

 

I feel sometimes like we're arguing the finer points of ancient religious texts.

[Newtonian 453]

Removed? Oh that's bs. Mine was issued in April 2007.

My card was issued in November, 2012, and only mentions purchase, not carry.

[PK90 3,570]

I thought HP ammo was ok for target shooting, but not self defense. If it's ok for target shooting, how can you not bring it to the range?

 

I feel sometimes like we're arguing the finer points of ancient religious texts.

 

You can not ride around with it.  Treat HP ammo like a handgun, i.e. "to and from" exemptions.

[kman 56]

I thought HP ammo was ok for target shooting, but not self defense. If it's ok for target shooting, how can you not bring it to the range?

 

I feel sometimes like we're arguing the finer points of ancient religious texts.

 

That is why I brought this up, because you think you are OK with the rifle in your trunk outside of school areas (and with a FPID you are, per NJ Statute), but then if you let your legal guard down you can get jammed up on ammo. 

 

Hollow Points - You can buy hollow points, you can bring them directly from point of purchase to your home, and you can have them in your home, and you can bring them to and from the range, but generally speaking you CAN NOT otherwise just have them in your possession.  You CAN NOT have hollow points in your car, in your bag, etc, when going to the supermarket or a movie.  Felony.

 

A rule of thumb - a hollow point round is like a handgun.  Buy it, bring it directly home, bring it directly to and from the range, otherwise keep it home and out of your car.  Note that even if you were somehow magically able to get a NJ carry permit, EVEN THEN you couldn't load up with hollow points.

 

So if you were going to keep a .22 rifle in your trunk, make damn sure that the ammunition you have with it isn't hollow point.  There are bulk packs out there that are not hollow point.  Just gotta look for them (when availability comes back).  CCI also makes non-hollow point rounds.

 

By the way the earlier advice is right - the NJ Exemptions need be followed with respect to rifles and shotguns ONLY if you don't have a FPID, and the exemptions need be followed with respect to pistols ONLY if you don't have a handgun carry permit.

 

NJ Law operates like this:

 

FIRST, it bans entirely possession of any firearm outright.  Yes, a complete and total ban, such as would be enacted in any totalitarian country.

 

SECOND, it provides that notwithstanding the outright ban, you can possess rifles and shotguns if you have a FPID and they are unloaded, and that you can possess pistols (loaded or not) if you have a carry permit. 

 

THIRD, it provides a list of exemptions from the outright ban, so that if you don't have a FPID and you don't have a carry permit, you can still do what is banned (possess rifles, shotguns and/or pistols) if you fit inside of one of the exemptions.  Being at your house is an exemption.  Going to and from the range is an exemption.  Going hunting is an exemption.  Being a New Jersey police officer is an exemption.  Etc.  Surprisingly, being a police officer from a different state is NOT an exemption, even if that police officer is in uniform.  So a NYPD officer coming across the border in uniform with open carried sidearm would be an instant felon.  Wonderful state.

 

But you don't need to be in an exemption with respect to unloaded rifles and unloaded shotguns if you have a FPID, and with respect to pistols (loaded or not) if you have a pistol carry permit.  Don't even need to go there, since exemptions are only necessary when you DO NOT have a FPID (or if you do have a FPID and your rifle/shotgun is loaded - such as would be the case when you are hunting) or you DO NOT have a pistol carry permit.

 

Finally, and I say this over and over again, join the ANJRPC, pay their membership fee (what is it, like $35 bucks?) and then you will be able to call one of the six attorneys listed in the back of the member newsletter - these attorneys will answer member questions on NJ law over the phone for free.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Newtonian,

 

Hollow points are allowed for all legal purposes in NJ.  What you CAN'T do with them is drive them around all year in your trunk.  Easiest way to think of this is to simply treat them as IF they are a hand gun:

 

To and from the Range.

 

To home from the Store you bought them at.

 

To a Gunsmith to diagnose a feeding issue (ONLY an unloaded gun, with ammo separate.  Don't over-think this.)

 

So, the short version is:  If you like to have a .22 plinker in your trunk so you can go plink at a moment's notice, just have some 40 grain solids to shoot instead of those EVIL hollow points.  Problem solved.

 

Anybody have one of those Staples "EASY" buttons?  lol

[Newtonian 453]

You can not ride around with it.  Treat HP ammo like a handgun, i.e. "to and from" exemptions.

I understand now. Wow. But you could drive around with non-hollow-point ammo for the rifle?